What is the right way to attack a convoy ?

[Di3lta-303]

Ok, I just receive my copy of Silent Hunter IV, on my very first patrol., playing with on realism options on except Manuel Targeting and No Map Contacts Updates. On my way to patrol next to Formosa, I meet a Small Modern Composite Vessel, sunk it with ease, then I meet a huge convoy consisting of 10 Small Passeger Vessels, 3 Light Cruisers and about 6 Destroyers.

I went to periscope depth and rigged for silent running. I got into position for a 90 degree starboard shot. So I wait for gyroangle to go to 0 degree and shot 3 torpedoes at 1 of the light cruisers, 1 of them exploded prematurely and the convoy started evasive manuevers, the other 2 torpedoes competely misses, though they have not detected where am I yet. In my frustration I quit the patrol. I was using the Salmon Class and Mark 14 Torpedoes by the way...

So, now my question is, what is the best way to approach a convoy and get into position for a 90 degree shot?

[kv29]

in 100% realism, I run at 30 meters, pass through the dd umbrella and go to periscope depth when Im around the middle of the convoy (a little ahead of it). This way the vessels are much closer (around 500/700 meters) and I don´t need to use the tdc for the nearest targets, using both bow and stern torpedos indiscriminately :p .

Is a bit of a mess when they start evading, but you should be able to take down a few.

A task force is another story, they are usually faster and more dangerous, no time for hide & seek. If Im at a good firing position ahead of them, I take my time to get a good solution and go for the biggest prizes (carrier or battleship).

[AVGWarhawk]

Short and sweet....I get in front of the convoy, submerge and let them come at me. Normally the lead DD will be basically zigging and zagging searching. Try to evade him by coming in on his port/starboard side. Do not attempt to go under him. Usually he can pick you up on sonar. Once he is passed, go to periscope depth and pick the merchants you want to sink. You will not sink them all so be happy with 2-3 sunk or damaged. Once the party starts, plan on evading out of the rear of the convoy. Plan you plot for a endround and get in front of them again. This means, run parallel to the convoy heading out of sight to get ahead again. Repeat your attack!

[Di3lta-303]

So you pass through the DD umbrella without silent running? Won't the DDs detect you?

[kv29]

not if you are not so close.

[AVGWarhawk]

So you pass through the DD umbrella without silent running? Won't the DDs detect you?

Sorry, thought that was a given. Yes, I manually put in 2kts and run silent. Sometimes I just drop below a thermal layer at 3 kts (around 200 feet). Once the DD passes, up to periscope depth to pick a juicy target!

[Di3lta-303]

Ok thanks, will try that out later. It all over for the convoy once I break through the umbrella. :lol:

[Snuffy]

Actually I take the DDs out first. :doh:

[PepsiCan]

but the fact that you have manual targetting off, doesn't mean you don't have to do any targeting.

What automated targeting does is calculate the trajectory of the fish, given your own speed, the target speed, bearing and heading etc. But you need to select the target and ensure that the computer translated trajectory gets updated so that the torpedo will take the right course.

Secondly, MK 14 torps had bugs in real life and these are mimiced in the game. The issues were
1) duds, caused by the detonator being crushed on impact with the target
2) torpedos typically ran 10 -15 feet too deep, so adjust the depth of your torp upwards (you can still influence all of this when doing auto targeting)
3) premature explosion due to a) shallow waters (see 2) and b) the wake of a previously fired torpedo setting off the detonator. this can be prevented by launching at 3-5 second intervals
4) sometimes, the torpedo gyro will be completely off and the torpedo will circle back at you and destroy you. So, after you've launched, DIVE!! (for two reasons, the enemy and your own torpedo)

All of this is simulated in the game. By mid 1943, depending on which command you belong to, the bugs on MK 14 will be fixed.

Hope this helps!

[Di3lta-303]

Ok... I have another question, For example, I want to hit the turret section of lets say a Heavy Cruiser, how do I know much spread angle to use?

[Julius Caesar]

Do you guys attack convoys when you are in shallow waters (mostly around Java sea) so you can dive up to 30 m?

[donut]

Dive to ck.thermal depth,& see if you have one ? Slip under,& PD.for action:rock:

[Snuffy]

Do you guys attack convoys when you are in shallow waters (mostly around Java sea) so you can dive up to 30 m?

I attack only when I think I have sufficient fish to do the job on the escort, the rest can be handled by the deck gun(s). [Lately I've been prone to shootin up sampans, junks, fishing boats and the like with the 20s.] Great fun!

[Julius Caesar]

Do you guys attack convoys when you are in shallow waters (mostly around Java sea) so you can dive up to 30 m?

I attack only when I think I have sufficient fish to do the job on the escort, the rest can be handled by the deck gun(s). [Lately I've been prone to shootin up sampans, junks, fishing boats and the like with the 20s.] Great fun!

But most convoys have 3+escorts.
So, would you attack such a convoy?
I had no luck trying to escape.
I even tried hiding below sinking ship; destoryes still wouldn't go away and he kept firing depth charges.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/goldfinger35/SH4Img3-6-2007_3.jpg

It is almost impossible to run away in clear weather in shallow waters.

[byss]

i sneak in between the lead dd and right side dd then line up on the main bulk of the convoy and wait then i'm usually in good shot for middle of the pack send 2 fish at high at the middle one in the middle of the pack then 2 on slow at the closest one in the middle then a quick 180 on the scope to target the the side dd escort with aft and send 2 fish on high at him i can usually sink 1 of the freighters or carriers or get lucky and get both but 95% of the time i usually always sink the dd then do some evading cause i usually have 1 or 2 of the other escort dd's comming fast. sonar man "warship closing moving fast!!" but then i get really aggressive 70% of the time i'll poke scope up and try to take out the incomming dd's cause even if i run silent and don't poke the scope they never seem to go away. got lucky last night on a convoy did the above hit middle of pack and the closest of the middle at the same time with 2 fish each and the side dd behind me at the same time with all the fish all 3 destroyed then went hard to port waited a bit poked scope up looked around a bit saw a dd in front and back popped 2 fish on each one of the front fish almost took me out it exploded too soon long story short used all my fish on the dd's taking all them out then surfaced to use deck gun on rest of convoy good times

[donut]

that's valor,but we might be shark bait:rotfl:

[Hazelwood]

I enjoy living dangerously and although slipping under the DD escort is the most prudent way to go I often take the head-on approach. You will usually find a couple of DDs in your path so I "sucker" them by noisily turning up the speed or even surfacing briefly. After that, hope you do not have too many "duds";-) Make sure crew are at battle-stations because you will need all the help you can get.

These destroyers will pull away from the convoy to take you on but their comrades on the other side of the formation typically take no notice. I then lie low and silent until I see the whites of their eyes and lay on a torp for each at high speed once within 400 yards or so. This is playing "chicken", of course, but it's very exciting. These destroyers are semi-tough. If you miss or get a dud you are in serious trouble. Be prepared to use your stern tubes. If you succeed you will have blown a huge hole in the escort and it's happy days for you with the merchant fleet. Clean up! By the time the other destroyers wake up and come looking for you you will have amassed enormous tonnage sunk. You may even find time to sink something with the deck gun. Slink away below the thermal.

This advice is just for fun. Evading the defences to begin with is more responsible.

Best wishes,
Cpt. J, Hazelwood / USS "Haddock"

[GT182]

Ask AVG Warhawk for his tactics he uses in SHIII. He used to die on his 1st thru 3rd patols but I hear his lived longer than that after a few careers. He should be the one that can help the best. ;) :yep:

[V.C. Sniper]

I place escorts at the top of my ships to sink priority. Then after all the escorts are sunk, I will surface my sub and open up with the sweet deck guns on the poor defenseless merchants.

[Snuffy]

But most convoys have 3+escorts.
So, would you attack such a convoy?
I had no luck trying to escape.
I even tried hiding below sinking ship; destoryes still wouldn't go away and he kept firing depth charges.



It is almost impossible to run away in clear weather in shallow waters.

I've attacked convoys with 4 or more DDs as well. In most cases one good placed shot will severly cripple a DD and take it out of action if not sink it altogether. Crippled ships are left to be dealt with last.

I've had my fair share of being chased down and blown out of the water, don't get me wrong, that still doesn't change my approach. Taking out the escorts first allows for a nice leasurely time in sinking the merchants.

I am not saying I'm 100 percent perfect in doing this either ... the O.P. wanted tactics ... and thats mine. :88)

[GTHammer]

I place escorts at the top of my ships to sink priority. Then after all the escorts are sunk, I will surface my sub and open up with the sweet deck guns on the poor defenseless merchants.

I used to do this but if its a decent sized convoy there are usually armed merchants and all it takes are a couple shots from their mediocre gun crews to screw your boat up and drastically shorten the length / reduce the effectiveness of your patrol. I'd rather shoot it out with a destroyers than 2 or 3 large merchants with guns. My deck gun is reserved for small targets or as a last resort when I'm out of torps.

[Reaves]

I normally just pick two of the juciest targets and go for them.

Always ensure you have a nice shot at your targets broadside as it can take several torps to sink something from the bow or stern.

Never! keep your periscope up at all times!. See what you need to see at periscope depth then drop a few metres so you can follow using sonar. Once you are closer than 3000 metres (Imperialist can convert for themselves :p) loose your torps. Or if possible go for under 2000. 1500 metres is sure to get you a kill but it can get you in hot water.

I recommend using 2 torps for each target unless it's a small merchant. You not going to always sink a target with 1 fish and it'll just be wasted if they get away.

Remember that you can always fight another day, don't waste a torpedo on a maybe shot. You never know when the carrier is going to show up and you want torps for it.

[vindex]

My gameplan. Works like a charm every time:

1) Use flank to get ahead of the convoy, out of visual range.

2) Using radar, plot the parallel courses of the rows of convoy ships and their escorts on the map. Also get an estimate on the convoy speed by timing their progress. You can also do this while flanking the convoy. This should give you enough time (30 minutes) to get a VERY accurate read on their speed.

3) Place yourself at a 90-degree angle to the convoy's course, at a point of your choosing. I usually place myself 0.3nm (approx. 600 ft) outside the outer row, WITHIN the escort screen. The escorts will tend to assume the torpedo came from outside their screen and begin their search by heading outwards.

4) If you're feeling ambitious, go to decks awash (approx. 30ft) where your radar and radio still work, but your profile is lower, and wait for a visual sighting of at least three ships, then you can call in a contact report. Then immediately dive to periscope depth. You will get a reply with mission orders (bonus prestige if you do what they say). This is only necessary the first time you encounter the convoy, not on follow-ups. It isn't strictly necessary at all, you can just dive to periscope depth before visual sighting if you want to be safe.

5) Raise periscope to get visual sighting and collect data for your manual TDC solution. At this attack position, starting AOB is almost always 8-10 degrees off center, either way. You already have their speed. All you really need is range.

6) Be sure to put "silent running" on. I've found that it makes a difference, even with engines off.

7) As you wait quietly, keep a careful watch on the lead escort. He tends to weave around and can come very close to your position. If he gets too close, drop periscope, he may see it and come after you. Also, make sure to stay more than 0.5nm away from any destroyer's course -- that is the limit of his sonar cone. They do not always run active sonar, but if they do, they will ping you and come after you. In worst case -- a destroyer is coming right at you while you wait -- you may want to drop way down to 250 ft, wait, and then come back up when he's gone. If you've set up your solution already, you should have enough time to dive and then come back to periscope to make final checks, even if you're targeting the first convoy ship.

8) Fire your solution. I usually use 2 fish for a large cargo ship. If you have planned your solution dead-on, this should sink it. If you're slightly off, 2 hits should at least cripple it so that it gets left behind eventually and you can finish it off later with your deck gun.

9) I usually fire one solution per engagement. Maybe I'm just slow. But I find that it improves you torpedo/sinking ratio and you can always be patient and come back for more.

10) I wait to get visual confirmation on my hits. Then I immediately dive to 250ft. I only turn my engines on AFTER I get below the thermal layer. Then I go forward 1/3, very quiet. The escorts will have a VERY difficult time finding you under these circumstances, even if they are quite close -- and they probably have no clue where you are to begin with. I set a course away from the convoy, usually 90 degrees from its course. Don't set a course along the convoy's course or you will never be rid of them.

11) Once you are out of the immediate vicinity, go to periscope depth and take a look around. You will probably see them hunting around far away from you. Continue moving away at 1/3 speed, silent running. When you get outside visual range, surface and start reloading your torpedo tubes.

12) Go to flank speed and start doing an end-run around the convoy for another shot. Rinse and repeat.

You can dog a convoy for days like this, sinking them one at a time, and the escort won't have a clue what to do. If you have properly conserved fuel on your way to patrol station (running at 2/3 speed), you should have no problem flanking them repeatedly and still have enough gas to get home.

The name of this game is patience. If you treat a convoy like a big shooting gallery, they will surely find you.

[GTHammer]

Well said Vindex :up:

[mfddan]

I agree....... Patience!

I keep a note taped to the bottom of my monitor..... PATIENCE LEADS TO VICTORY!

Helps to keep me from getting impatient. When I get impatient that's usually when I lose the boat cause I did something stupid. example getting rammed because I wanted to make that one last shot.

You can't get to frustrated because you missed a shot. If you read actual WWII sub patrol reports, the average number of ships sunk per patrol were about 2-3 If I recall. They didn't come home with 100,000 tons per patrol. If I can get 4 ships with my 16 fish then I'm very happy with my patrol.

I also agree with the other posts I've read in this thread as far as attacking convoys. My 2 cents:

Surprise is your friend. If the target doesn't know you are there, then he probably will not have time to evade your first fish. So you use less fish because you don't miss as much. If you attack on the surface right from the start then when the targets see you they start to increase speed and change course and that makes it harder to get a good solution. So I always use stealth until I know they know I'm there. Getting in front of the convoy and let them come to you is the best. They use their fuel to come to you and you save your batteries.

Another piece of advice.... Take the time to Identify ALL the targets in the convoy so you can pick the juiciest ones. Like said earlier, you won't sink them all. Pick the biggest ones then hit them with your bow tubes. then go under them and finish them with your aft. When that is done you should already be heading in an opposite course as the convoy so you can make your exit. If you are heading north at 3 kts and they are heading south at 9kts then you are moving away from each other at a combined speed of 12kts. Better to exit at 12 kts using 3kts worth of battery.

Also remember some merchants carry guns too. They can also take a few more rounds than your sub before they sink.