What did Firemen do on WWII U.S. submarines?

[LukeFF]

This question has me perplexed, and I'd really like to get it answered, since it will greatly help in me completing my Realistic Crew Configs mod. The only clue which I can find says this:

Fire and tend boilers. Operate, adjust and repair pumps.

The mention of pumps makes me think they would stand watch in the command room. Is this assumption correct?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Bump:up:

RDP

[Jmack]

found this frase ... from time magazine

Electrocution
In Colon, Panama, Austin Maeder, 20, fireman on the U. S. submarine S-12, was electrocuted & killed on duty. Circuit: empty lamp socket, sweating back, wrench in hand, engine.

[Jmack]

now serious ...

http://www.bergall.org/mechinfo.html



Internal Submarine Organization
The submarine's crew is an organization of specialists. Brain rather than brawn is the selection criterion. There are many "sergeants" but few "privates"--non-rated men constitute less than 20% of the entire complement. Each officer and man must be a specialist in his own job, but he must know his shipmate's job as well. Before an officer or man can be designated as "qualified in submarines" he must pass a rigid written and oral examination on all machinery, piping and equipment throughout the boat. The electrician's mate must know how to fire the torpedo tubes, the torpedoman's mate how to charge the batteries. There are no spare parts in a submarine's crew--each member is a cog in the wheel, and each cog must do its job to perfection if the organization is to function smoothly, efficiently, and above all, safely.
From a numerical standpoint, motor machinist's mates, electrician's mates and torpedoman's mates predominate in the crew. These three groups approximate half of the enlisted personnel. Next come radiomen and operators of the submarine's electronic gear. Three quartermasters or signalmen, two ship's cooks, two steward's mates, one pharmacist's mate, one gunner's mate, one yeoman, and a number of firemen and seamen complete the complement. The senior chief petty officer on board, usually a chief torpedoman's mate, is designated the "Chief of the Boat."
The senior officer on board is, of course, the submarine's captain. ("Old Man" to the crew, he was, at the outbreak of World War II, a lieutenant commander whose age was probably 34 or 35.) He is followed in seniority by the executive officer who also serves as navigator. Aside from these two--captain and exec--seniority does not enter into the picture. The submarine captain assigns officers to the various ship's duties in accordance with their experience and capabilities. There are the chief engineer, torpedo and gunnery officer, communications officer and commissary officer. (When radar equipment was installed during Word War II there was sometimes a radar officer.) The officers may be, and frequently are, assigned more than one of the above duties.
In the pre-war days the complement of a fleet-type submarine consisted of five officers and 54 enlisted men. As newly developed fire control, radar, radio and sound equipment was added to the submarines, and as war experience dictated the need for more personnel, the complement grew. At war's end it approximated eight officers and 75 enlisted men.
For purposes of watch-standing, the submarine crew is divided into three sections. All hands, the captain excepted, stand watches "one in three" with four hours on duty and eight hours off. The work of the captain, in the words of the well-known sideshow pitch, "is goin' on all the time."[SIC] He must be constantly on the alert and always on call. Each section is organized to man all necessary stations for diving, surfacing, and surfaced or submerged cruising. With the exception of routine cleaning and minor repair jobs, little work is done on a submarine at sea, and sections off watch occupy their time with eating, reading, acey deucey, and sleeping.
Torpedo and gun attacks are, of course, all-hands evolutions. When contact with the enemy is made, the general alarm is sounded and everyone mans his battle station. The captain takes over the periscope and conducts the approach and attack. Breathing over his shoulder is the Exec who, as assistant approach officer, is the "official kibitzer."[SIC] It is his job to check the captain's observations and estimates, and to assist with the adroit mental gymnastics required for a submarine approach. In pre-war days the assistant approach officer was called the "yes man." The term fell into disrepute because of its unintended connotation with obsequious kowtowing. [WHEW!] There is no time for "yessing" in a submarine when the life of all on board may depend on "flooding negative." The only answer permitted in submersible operations is the right answer.
On board the submarine going into action, other officers serve as diving officer, torpedo data computer operator, and plotting officer. One officer is usually assigned to each torpedo room to supervise the readying of all tubes, or to take charge of torpedo reloads. The battle station duties of the crew keep the enlisted men busy. Some serve as members of the approach and fire control party, others as telephone talkers, timekeepers, or recorders. Torpedomen's mates, of course, man their torpedo rooms, and all men not otherwise specifically assigned proceed to these rooms to assist with reloads. When attack and inevitable counter-attack are concluded, the word is passed, "Secure from battle stations--first (or second, or third) section on watch." Normal routine is resumed.
The stranger on board a submarine on war patrol might have difficulty distinguishing between captain and seaman. Both eat the same food and wear the same garb -- shorts and leather sandals being standard costume for patrols in the tropics. And both might be found engrossed in a fast game of chess on the control room deck. Submarines and submarining do not provide space for the protocol of rank. Each member of the crew, from cook to captain, stands on his own two feet as an individual
The rates used early in the Bergall's career are as follows:

EM= Electrician Mate
EN= Engineman
ET= Electronic Technician FN= Fireman ( a striker for a below deck rate such as EN (ENFN)
CS= Commissary steward (Cook)
FN= Fireman ( a striker for a below deck rate such as EN (ENFN)
GM= Gunner's Mate
MoMM= Motor Machinist's Mate (called Auxiliaryman) This is JJ Ott to a "T"!
RM= Radioman
SC= Ship's Cook
SO= Sonarman
SN= Seaman (or a striker for a above deck rate such as TM (TMSN)
TM= Torpedoman
QM= Quartermaster
YN= Yeoman

[AVGWarhawk]

I thought the firemen carried Zippo lighters for the smokers on the crew;)

[LukeFF]

Thank you Jmack, that was very informative!

Now, after reading that, it seems like the best place for the Fireman rating would be in the engine room, correct? Also, based on that, it seems they could pretty much fit in anywhere they were needed, yes?

[pocatellodave]

It has been a number of years ago,but if my memory serves me right,firemen were sailors that spent their watch in the engine room.We called them snipes.I don't know how the word snipes came about,but thats what we called them.Most ships had a port and starboard watch,and you were on four and off four.The snipes had red stripes to designate their job field.Regular seaman had white stripes,and aviation sailors stripes were green.This was true until they achieved third class,then their occupational speciality was shown on their third class crow emblem.
Pocatellodave

[LukeFF]

It has been a number of years ago,but if my memory serves me right,firemen were sailors that spent their watch in the engine room.

Thanks, that what I figured was the case.

[Sailor Steve]

U.S. railroad trains also still have firemen. Back in the days of steam they shovelled the coal into the firebox. Today they are apprentice engineers. Still called firemen, though. I'm sure naval firemen are the result of a similar history; new job, old name.

[Jmack]

i agree with steve ...

[sunvalleyslim]

Nice job Jmack..........:up: :up: :up:

[Werewolf13]

To keep it short...

In the Navy enlisted ranks there are 4 categories of ratings.

1. Deck
2. Engineering
3. Aviation
4. Medical

Firemen are E-3 and below engineering guys. Their stripes are red.
Seamen are E-3 and below deck ratings. Their stripes are white.
Aviation strikers have green stripes and medical blue.

Examples of engineering ratings that firemen can strike for are Machinists Mate, Hull Tech (didn't have those in WWII), Boiler Tech etc...

Examples of seaman ratings are Bosun's Mate, Electronics Tech, Radioman, Fire Control Tech etc

Don't have a clue aobut the aviation and medical communties.

[LukeFF]

Thanks all for the replies!

[Snowman999]

To keep it short...

In the Navy enlisted ranks there are 4 categories of ratings.

1. Deck
2. Engineering
3. Aviation
4. Medical

Firemen are E-3 and below engineering guys. Their stripes are red.
Seamen are E-3 and below deck ratings. Their stripes are white.
Aviation strikers have green stripes and medical blue.

Examples of engineering ratings that firemen can strike for are Machinists Mate, Hull Tech (didn't have those in WWII), Boiler Tech etc...

Examples of seaman ratings are Bosun's Mate, Electronics Tech, Radioman, Fire Control Tech etc

Don't have a clue aobut the aviation and medical communties.

Close, but not quite.

White is Deck, Admin, and Medical/Dental.
Red is Engineering.
Green is Aviation.
Blue is Construction ratings (Seabee battalions and others.)

[Battle Wagon Sailor]

To keep it short...

In the Navy enlisted ranks there are 4 categories of ratings.

1. Deck
2. Engineering
3. Aviation
4. Medical

Firemen are E-3 and below engineering guys. Their stripes are red.
Seamen are E-3 and below deck ratings. Their stripes are white.
Aviation strikers have green stripes and medical blue.

Examples of engineering ratings that firemen can strike for are Machinists Mate, Hull Tech (didn't have those in WWII), Boiler Tech etc...

Examples of seaman ratings are Bosun's Mate, Electronics Tech, Radioman, Fire Control Tech etc

Don't have a clue aobut the aviation and medical communties.

Close, but not quite.

White is Deck, Admin, and Medical/Dental.
Red is Engineering.
Green is Aviation.
Blue is Construction ratings (Seabee battalions and others.)

Actually, both of you are right. When wearing Blues, E-3 and below Deck rating stripes are white, when wearing Whites, the stripes are dark blue. E-3 and below Deck rating stripes are the only stripes that change color when shifting from Blues to Whites. E-3 and below Construction rating stripes are light blue.

[greyrider]

a fireman just means a person has a license to operate High Pressure Boilers.

the license grades refer to the sizes of the boiler that the holder can operate..
some of the different classes of licenses are, in my state.

from lowest to highest

Boiler Tech/Second Class Fireman
First Class Fireman
Third Class Engineer
Second Class Engineer
First Class Engineer

[Chief of the Boat]

Best shipmate I ever had 'graduated' from Red Fireman Stripes, to become a [Warrant] Machinist... a true "Snipe", "Daylight Dodger", member of "The Black Gang", "Bilge Rat", "Shaft Alley Lizard"... threatened with keel-hauling by the Leading Bosun's Mate if he EVER laid one greasy foot on that nice painted Main Deck...

COB

[starvingartist507]

My grandpa said, "on a sub, everyone's a fireman." He was doin this kind of stuff when he was my age.

[Snowman999]

Actually, both of you are right. When wearing Blues, E-3 and below Deck rating stripes are white, when wearing Whites, the stripes are dark blue. E-3 and below Deck rating stripes are the only stripes that change color when shifting from Blues to Whites. E-3 and below Construction rating stripes are light blue.


Yep. I should have specified light blue. They're pretty rare unless you hang around Port Hueneme. In six years active I never saw a set of light-blue stripes.

Thinking about it, service stripes and rating badges can also vary in color between gold and regular colors, depending on 12-year Good Conduct status.