So will re-sending speed data also re-send bearing data?

[nattydread]

Its been rumored but Im not sure if its been confirmed. Will unlocking the target, moving my scope to aim at various parts of the ship and re-sending speed data also send the new bearing also?

As said many times before, not being able to yell bearing info to the TDC operator or not having the TDC reference periscope bearing for TDC data really makes aiming torps at portions of the ship more complicated and inaccurate then it ought to be.

My understanding that one could independently change each bit of TDC data as it ran/tracked a solution. Not having a separate "bearing" capture function is really handi-capping advance skipper fire control. Granted this function would likly have to be seperate from the TDC. Maybe a hot-key or tool-bar option.

[Torpex752]

I agree we need both, a means to observe and check relative bearings and a means to input bearings. SH1 had this feature using the spacebar.

Frank
:cool:

[Pappnese]

Pressing the red button on the stadimeter "page" sends new bearing, there is no need to take a new height. The TDC then updates on the bearing only; range, speed and AOB stays the same.

Just tried it in a test mission :up:

[WernerSobe]

the answer is, it depends whether you use position keeper or the scope for bearing update.

When you have the position keeper deactivated. Your bearing is automaticly updated by your scope direction in real time. The moment you activate the position keeper, it will first disconnect the scope from bearing update and calculate the latest known bearing further based on firing solution. Then it doesnt matter where you aim at, as long your position keeper is activated the torpedos will go for the interception point given by position keeper not the scope.

The problem you have is not about updating bearing. You just use the position keeper way to often. Actualy you dont need to use the position keeper at all when you go for target visualy. Position Keeper is just a nice tool to "predict" bearing based on firing solution when you cannot, or dont want to update bearing with the scope. For visual firing solution its rather a hindrance then help, specialy when you go for special parts because PK ignores bearing given by the scope.

Try this: Forget the position keeper. Create a firing solution. Unlock the target and aim for a special part just as you did in SH3 and see what happens.

[Scoochy]

I don't use the PK at all and I have to update my bearing by pressing the "Send to TDC" button on the stadimeter. If I don't, or try anything else but that button, all my torps head right back to the last bearing I had.

[WernerSobe]

youre right ive just tested it. It does not update bearing on the run from the scope. Which is definetely a bug because historicaly TDC was connected tot he scope and was provided with bearing from the scope in real time.

That might explain the chronometer issue. Maybe its not the chronometer broken but the scope. Of course you will not get any speed calculation when you have no bearing change.

ps.: and yes it does update bearing by resending speed

[nattydread]

I messed around last night in port and did a ghost solution (no ship, just data) and updating speed didnt update the bearing. It changes the torp gyro if i change the speed, but thats it. I assume it would apply with an actual ship too.

I'll try the range input with out using the stadimeter and confirm it. Im surprised the torp solution/gyro is updated after turning of the PK...that doesnt make sense to me(I could be wrong), I thought the PK not only showed estimated target data for reference, but was also key for keeping the gyro updated up until launch. I'd think turning off PK would also turn off updates to the torp gyros and locking in a rapidly degarding solution until you inputted new data to overwrite the last solution.

[maerean_m]

The Position Keeper feature was created because the real sailors only had Manual targeting. Getting the data for the solution (bearing, range, AOB and speed) is time consuming and getting a new set of data can ruin the older set. So they did it once, activated the PK and retracted the periscope as it can be detected by radar. They raised the periscope once a minute to check if the first solution is still ok and updated the components only if needed. If the solution was good after 3 such attempts, the torpedo was good to fire.
The position keeper is reinitialized every time you resend one of the components to the TDC. On manual targeting, sending the range also sends the bearing (as it says in the tooltip of the Send button).

When you use Automatic targeting and Position Keeper, you usualy point the periscope to the center of the ship, activate the PK and use the spread angle to aim the torpedo more at the front or the back of the target. You can see the effect of changing the spread angle in the attack map.
The position keeper is reinitialized every time you turn it off and then back on again.

The spread angle is useful on manual targeting also, since you can change the torpedo's course without altering the solution (and/or the PK) in any way :up:.

[elanaiba]

I don't understand where people get the notion that the periscope/TBT whatever was connected to the TDC full time and updated bearing all the time?

All my data seems to point that it was not so. Sure, this was the way things were done in u-boats, thank you very much :) we got that right in SH3.

But in US Boats it was different. So surely you'd like to do it "as in real life". After all, you wouldn't want gyro angle-capable torpedoes in British boats, if we ever do them, would you?

If anyone has hard evidence proving that bearing was constantly updated, pease post it here, but so far I have yet to see something like that.

[Scoochy]

I don't think a constant bearing update is what is in question. People are just wondering which "send to" button updates the bearing.

[Torpex752]

The scope was not linked in any way to the TDC, an in SH4 there is no "target bearing imdicator dial". An actual TDC generated a solution based off of what we input; speed-range-AOB...thats it. You "match" generated bearing from TDC with actual bearings on an observation, this "checks" the solution. The only indication that we get is torpedo gyro angle, and quite frankly thats not useful except to shoot when gyros are or close to zero for max accuracy.

Frank
:cool:

[nattydread]

Naw, im not saying we should be feeding constant bearing data to the TDC, just that we should be able to send new bearing data at any time. Weither that should be a physical TDC feature or a key function is up for debate, but the "bearing" option is much needed.

Also, I should mention that this is for manual targeting when one wants to aim a specific parts of the ship.

As said above, the PK just takes a solution determined by input data and provides a running second by second update to the gyros based on that solution and ownship movement. The ability to change the bearing on the fly allows for the data and solution to remain the same except for the small change in bearing that allows for slight gyro adjusments so we can aim at specific parts of the target. Its like adding a spread angle to the original solution sort of, but much more accurate.

I'll settle for re-submitting the range as a work around provided it doesnt alter the actual range data for the original solution.

[elanaiba]

You send the bearing and range together from the scope and TBT. So you do change the range currently determined by the PK.

Frankly, I don't think that's a problem.

As for the bearing indication, I beg to differ:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1998/bearinginfovx0.jpg

[joea]

youre right ive just tested it. It does not update bearing on the run from the scope. Which is definetely a bug because historicaly TDC was connected tot he scope and was provided with bearing from the scope in real time.



Correct for u-boats, not correct for US subs, the scope and TBt were not contected so the guy on the scope had to call out "mark" and the crew would read the bearing and then set the TDc manually.

[WernerSobe]

You can also aim for special parts using spread. Lets say you want to hit a target at about first mast which is counting 6 small marks (from center while locked in high zoom) to the right. So basicly you can set up spread to 1,25° to the right and the torpedoe should hit about the mast assuming the solution is not to much flawed.

from manual:

zoomed small marks are 0,25° large marks 1°
in wide view small marks are 1° large marks 4°

[Torpex752]

You send the bearing and range together from the scope and TBT. So you do change the range currently determined by the PK.

Frankly, I don't think that's a problem.

As for the bearing indication, I beg to differ:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1998/bearinginfovx0.jpg

Well I'll be...I did not know that lil hot spot was there! Ok then ...I stand corrected! I will be happy now to use that feature:up: (I'd still prefer the SH1 TDC.... )

[heartc]

As for the bearing indication, I beg to differ:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1998/bearinginfovx0.jpg

Huh? Did this come with the 1.2 patch?? Awesome. Why did not anyone mention it till now? Would give me reason to install the patch. I'm still on 1.0 and don't have any problems with it that would have been fixed in one of the patches. Now, this bearing readout is what I was hoping/praying for since day one. :D

[nattydread]

My understanding is that the true bearing and bearing are just talking about the same thing. The true bearing is based on the true or magnetic bearing referenceing north, while teh bearing is referencing relative bearing to the bow.

That doesnt allow me to take a ship which as a given AoB, speed, range with the center of that ship at a bearing with respect to my bow of lets say 350. That will give me a specifc solution to hit the center of the ship. If I want to hit the stern of that ship which would be at a different bearing with respect to my bow, like 348, I'd have to set the TDC to have the same AoB, speed and range, but I need to be able to set into the TDC a bearing of 348 to get the subtle change in solution and gyros to hit the ship's stern. Now that may not be a function tied to the persicope, it may require a perosn actually physcally change that on the TDC, but it should be available in some capacity.

Unlike teh game, the skipper wasnt the only one perfroming tasks for fire control on the ship. I should be able to point my periscope at a bearing and hit a toolbar button or keyborad button and order my TDC operater to input the new bearing data without fear of corrupting any of the other data. That means he reads the periscope bearing off of a repeater, a meter visible on the scope an veiwable from within the command room or by simple having the skipper yell the bearing the scope is currently on for the operator to input.

Out of simplicity of modeling and I could see the feature being implemented as something that looks like physical TDC feature if though it wasnt. At this point I can almost careless how they implement it aslong as the function is there.

p.s. using the spread is in no way the same thing, nor is it even close to a substitute.

[nattydread]

I just checked out the use of sending range data to update the bearing for accurate aiming. It seems to work but it corrupts the range data by inputing the original range determined at the beginning of the contact when data was first placed in the TDC. This may cause problems with longer shots, or very close shots against fast movers.

It may have comprimised a shot I had against a BB. I was less than 1000yds away and the its speed was high, the range inputed when I tried the range input work around did me no good since my last range input was about 2000yds, it likley threw the gyros setting way off.

[geosub1978]

Well gentlemen, I have to make clear one thing, which is ABSOLUTELLY TRUE, and I know it very well because of my service in the greek (american built) BALAO class submarines.

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC!

BUT!!!! In the american submarines of WW2 you COULD set the gyro angle of your choice independantly from TBT-TDC-ETC by using a device right on the tube. That is because in case of a broken down TBT-TDC the X.O. calculated the gyro angle manually and was directlly set to the torpedo!

And this must be patched/moded in the game!

I personally calculate manually the fire bearing and the gyro anlge. In order to set my desired gyro angle I just turn the sonar wheel to the relative bearing=gyro angle and click on SEND BEARING button. So I have my gyro angle. Untill now I had only few misses because of speed bad estimate. By manually calculating the range is absolutelly useless!

[heartc]

It seems to work but it corrupts the range data by inputing the original range determined at the beginning of the contact when data was first placed in the TDC. This may cause problems with longer shots, or very close shots against fast movers.


This is correct. It is not sufficient to just hit the "send" button on the range page to send bearing, you have to re-measure the range via the stadimeter again or the outdated range measurement will be re-entered. This is why I thought it would have been cool to have a seperate mark button as iRL.
It's no show-stopper though. Just take range again at the point you want your bearing to be - that is quickly done since you don't have to be all that accurate with range anyway.

[John Channing]

You should be re-checking your range on your shooting observation anyway. It confirms that your solution is accurate and tracking correctly.

JCC

[nattydread]

You should be re-checking your range on your shooting observation anyway. It confirms that your solution is accurate and tracking correctly.

JCC

I tend to re-send range data one more time before I fire, but with manual targeting at 100% realism, I dont always have the luxury of time to re-submit range data again, then unlocking the target and moving the periscope pip/luber line to where I want to aim, then re-sending range again, then firing.

Everything is done by mouse clicking, so I cant do multiple things at once. I need a send data hot-key like the fire hot key so i can free up the mouse for other things...thats why a bearing set hot key is essential.

Trust me, it gets really messy when your less than 1000yds from a high speed target, they fly by exceptionally fast. To make it worse, playing on very difficult with escorts passing by very close doenst allow for those long periscope looks so I have to gather a lot of TDC data at the last minute in very short looks.

[heartc]

I tend to re-send range data one more time before I fire, but with manual targeting at 100% realism, I dont always have the luxury of time to re-submit range data again, then unlocking the target and moving the periscope pip/luber line to where I want to aim, then re-sending range again, then firing.


It is indeed somewhat annoying, however from what you describe here you are doing one step too many: Why "lock" the periscope on the target to gather final range for new bearing transmission? You don't have to do that. Just point the crosshairs on the point of the target you want the bearing to transmit and take final range, send. You might have to start out by aiming a little bit ahead of this point because it takes a while. This is what still makes it a bit annoying indeed, but your solution sounds even more of a workload.

I hate "locking" the scope on the target anyway, because I need to look around a lot to maintain SA and also, when you lock your scope on the target, it will take away from the sense of target movement / relative movements somewhat and might even corrupt your sense for a good speed estimate.

[nattydread]

I tend to re-send range data one more time before I fire, but with manual targeting at 100% realism, I dont always have the luxury of time to re-submit range data again, then unlocking the target and moving the periscope pip/luber line to where I want to aim, then re-sending range again, then firing.


It is indeed somewhat annoying, however from what you describe here you are doing one step too many: Why "lock" the periscope on the target to gather final range for new bearing transmission? You don't have to do that. Just point the crosshairs on the point of the target you want the bearing to transmit and take final range, send. You might have to start out by aiming a little bit ahead of this point because it takes a while. This is what still makes it a bit annoying indeed, but your solution sounds even more of a workload.

I hate "locking" the scope on the target anyway, because I need to look around a lot to maintain SA and also, when you lock your scope on the target, it will take away from the sense of target movement / relative movements somewhat and might even corrupt your sense for a good speed estimate.

My understanding is that you need to lock the target to use the stadimeter, do we not? So in order to get the best solution i need to get range data right before I unlock and get the new bearing. That way the range data sent with new bearing is as close as possible to the actual range.

Once again the best method would just be a mark or input bearing command to TDC...there is no real way around that fact, to some degree the devs have handicapped high realism, manual target users.

[heartc]

My understanding is that you need to lock the target to use the stadimeter, do we not?

No, you don't.

[starbird]

There is no need to lock the scope when using the stadimeter. You just need to make sure that your crosshairs are on the ship when you hit the red button.

[nattydread]

hmm, ok. That will certainly help some.

[geosub1978]

Once again the best method would just be a mark or input bearing command to TDC...there is no real way around that fact, to some degree the devs have handicapped high realism, manual target users.[/quote]

YOU CAN MANUALY SEND ANY BEARING, AS A RESULT THE TARGET'S BEARING AS WELL, FROM THE SONAR TO THE TDC (SEND BEARING TO TDC BUTTON) WHICH IS HISTORICALLY CORRECT!:yep: JUST TURN THE WHEEL TO EVERY BEARING YOU WANT!!!

[nattydread]

Once again the best method would just be a mark or input bearing command to TDC...there is no real way around that fact, to some degree the devs have handicapped high realism, manual target users.

YOU CAN MANUALY SEND ANY BEARING, AS A RESULT THE TARGET'S BEARING AS WELL, FROM THE SONAR TO THE TDC (SEND BEARING TO TDC BUTTON) WHICH IS HISTORICALLY CORRECT!:yep: JUST TURN THE WHEEL TO EVERY BEARING YOU WANT!!!

so now i gotta leave the tdc and play sonar man too? there is no way a sound bearing should be able to replace the accuracy of a visual bearing, Im not just trying to hit the target, im trying to hit certain places on the target..i need to see it. Aiming the torps by visual bearing should be a split second process. Literally move it, set it, fire! It should be happening as fast as it takes to say it almost.

[heartc]

I agree. But, at least for now, we are stuck with the way it is, so just take my advice.

Geosub1978, the point was not how to obtain a general bearing, but final targetting during the shooting observation. Aiming for specific parts of the ship via the crosshairs, or aim in front / aft if you figure your solution is poor but don't have time to go through the whole process again, etc.
To just have a "Mark" Button as iRL, actually, using it for the same purposes - to transmit bearing. And how best to work around the lack of one. Running to the sonar station and sending bearing from there would be the worst workaround I could think of. ;)

[geosub1978]

I agree. But, at least for now, we are stuck with the way it is, so just take my advice.

Geosub1978, the point was not how to obtain a general bearing, but final targetting during the shooting observation. Aiming for specific parts of the ship via the crosshairs, or aim in front / aft if you figure your solution is poor but don't have time to go through the whole process again, etc.
To just have a "Mark" Button as iRL, actually, using it for the same purposes - to transmit bearing. And how best to work around the lack of one. Running to the sonar station and sending bearing from there would be the worst workaround I could think of. ;)

Thats true when you approach and attack against one target.

BUT!Dived in rough seas in the middle of a carrier/battleship task force or in the middle of a convoy were you have to attack simultaniously against 2 targets and immediately shift to other 2, then to my way of manual targeting there is no time to open the recognition manual-click on the target obtain good ranges etc. So far I didn't have delay problems with the procedure I described.

[nattydread]

[quote=heartc]I agree. But, at least for now, we are stuck with the way it is, so just take my advice.

Geosub1978, the point was not how to obtain a general bearing, but final targetting during the shooting observation. Aiming for specific parts of the ship via the crosshairs, or aim in front / aft if you figure your solution is poor but don't have time to go through the whole process again, etc.
To just have a "Mark" Button as iRL, actually, using it for the same purposes - to transmit bearing. And how best to work around the lack of one. Running to the sonar station and sending bearing from there would be the worst workaround I could think of. ;)

Thats true when you approach and attack against one target.

BUT!Dived in rough seas in the middle of a carrier/battleship task force or in the middle of a convoy were you have to attack simultaniously against 2 targets and immediately shift to other 2, then to my way of manual targeting there is no time to open the recognition manual-click on the target obtain good ranges etc. So far I didn't have delay problems with the procedure I described.

Thats following the same outdated american SOPs that kept the initial skippers from taking the fight to the enemy. Believe me you can pull that off with scope bearings even better if all you want are hits. And with the appropriate bearing mark function you could aim precisely and quickly still.

[Mav87th]

From Submarine - Torpedo Firecontrol Manual

"
203. BEARING - MARK:
A phrase used by the Approach Officer or by one of the Radar or Sonar Operators indicating to all members of the Fire Control Party that the target bearing as read on the various repeaters is correct. This is usually paralleled by a buzzer and mark light."

220. GYROS FORWARD (AFT) MATCHED IN AUTOMATIC (HAND):
A report from the Gyro Angle Setter to the Assistant TDC Operator, informing him that the gyro setting indicator regulator is matching the indicated value of gyro angle order.

221. GYROS FORWARD (AFT) STANDBY FOR GYRO CHECK - MARK:
An order from the Assistant TDC Operator to the Gyro Angle Setter to note the indicated gyro angle and report its value on the work "MARK".

222. GYROS FORWARD (AFT) SET GYROS _____:
An order from the Assistant TDC Operator to the Gyro Angle Setter to set the torpedo tube gyro spindles at some specific value. This is used only in an emergency caused by TDC failure and is given as a value between 000 and 360.

223. GYROS FORWARD (AFT) MATCH GYROS BY HAND:
An order from the Assistant TDC Operator to the Gyro Angle Setter to operate the gyro setting indicator regulator by hand and match gyros by the "follow the pointer method".

[geosub1978]

I want to say it once more to the DEVs team and to anyone capable to mod this because I served in a Balao class submarine...

We could set manually any given bearing to the TDC.

We could set manually any desired gyro angle to the torpedo (for this you can use the spread anlge in the game).

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC.

Thank you.

[joea]

I want to say it once more to the DEVs team and to anyone capable to mod this because I served in a Balao class submarine...

We could set manually any given bearing to the TDC.

We could set manually any desired gyro angle to the torpedo (for this you can use the spread anlge in the game).

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC.

Thank you.

Wait a minute, in the game the periscope is not connected to the TDC. :confused:

[heartc]

I want to say it once more to the DEVs team and to anyone capable to mod this because I served in a Balao class submarine...

We could set manually any given bearing to the TDC.

We could set manually any desired gyro angle to the torpedo (for this you can use the spread anlge in the game).

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC.

Thank you.
I understand you served on a WWII US sub in the Greek Navy post war, and I salute you for that and the input you can give is *very* valuable for all of us, but the points you brought up seem to be partly besides the point of this thread, and partly already implemented. Let me elaborate:

We could set manually any given bearing to the TDC.This is in fact the point of this thread. Actually, you can send any given bearing to the TDC in SHIV, but only *indirectly* by submitting range to the target, which makes the process more complicated than it should be. There should be a seperate bearing transmitter button. It should be a one click, split second thing. Why this would be of importance - aside from historical accuracy - I layed out above and in numerous other threads.

We could set manually any desired gyro angle to the torpedo (for this you can use the spread anlge in the game).This I would call a "manual override", and it is indeed not there in SHIV, while it was in SHI. At the same time, however, I think the usage of it would be very limited in the game. As you pointed out in an earlier post, it was mostly meant for the case the TDC would fail, as a backup. Something which is never going to happen in SHIV though. Hell, judging from how little people understand a pretty much automatic TDC, position keeper and gyro angle update system (and I don't mean the in-game Auto-TDC, but the "manual" one), I very much doubt anyone could really make use of a totally manual gyro angle setting option to achieve any results. So, taking these things into account, the game is fine here and no "correction" is really necessary for that.

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC.There isn't in the game either. The only "connection", if you would like to call it that way, is when you send range to the TDC while looking through the periscope, and bearing will also be updated with that. Other than that, the scope is totally independent of the TDC, just like iRL. The whole point of "sending" the data while in scope / TBT view of the game is to simulate the skipper calling out "BEARING 40°, ANGLE ON THE BOW PORT 30" or something while looking through the scope, and the Fire Control party would enter it in the TDC. In fact, iRL the TBT on the bridge was indeed connected to the TDC, with a bearing transmitter button (hence Target Bearing Transmitter, TBT), as was the sonar set, as you yourself pointed out, SJ radar, and what not.


So to sum it up, the game got the TDC data transmission and Position Keeper simulation down pretty well, EXCEPT for a seperate "target bearing transmitter button", which would allow you to transmit target bearing WITHOUT taking range at the same time. Target Bearing should be a seperate data gathering just like range, AOB and speed are. You should not be required to go through the range gathering process again just to send a bearing to the TDC. That is the whole point of this thread and the only thing which is amiss in the game as far as the TDC is concerned.

[Soundman]

I must agree, having to range just to send a bearing is a SOB! The only way I have been able to rapidly fire on differing bearings requires a target lock first. If there is no lock, the bearing alone will not update. I tried this last night. was sitting dead still with a dead still target. set up a solution with speed set to zero, locked the target, shot and it went as it should. Then tried aiming the scope about 35 degrees to the right at no target, hit the stadmeter update button, and there was no change. The torp went the same direction as the first. .....Then locked a different target, hit the udate and THEN went on the desired bearing. This seems kinda screwy to me. As was earlier stated, there needs to be a simpler way to point and shoot. At first, I thought it was just me not understanding something. Or maybe I still don't understand something lol!

[geosub1978]

I want to say it once more to the DEVs team and to anyone capable to mod this because I served in a Balao class submarine...

We could set manually any given bearing to the TDC.

We could set manually any desired gyro angle to the torpedo (for this you can use the spread anlge in the game).

There was no connection of the periscope to the TDC.

Thank you.

Wait a minute, in the game the periscope is not connected to the TDC. :confused:

Joea, I told this because there were some complains in the forum about the absence of this kind of connection between periscope and TDC.

[geosub1978]

Just for historical reasons I want to breafly point what used to happen during tha approach and attack fase.

a. The aim of the captain was to bring the submarine to a coarse vertical to target's coarse so as the gyro angle was=0. This is easily calculated. As a rule of thumb the start of submarines turn to reach the vertical coarse started when the target's AOB was 30-40 degrees.

b. Meanwhile the X.O. calculated the fire bearing through the Bearing Rate Computer.

c. The most difficult part was to match the time when the turn to the vertical coarse would be the time when the target would be on the fire bearing. For this reason the above mentioned rule of AOB=30 helped very much.

d. If at the moment of the turn completion the fire bearing was not matched, we set the gyro angle=the diffrence between the bearing of the target to the fire bearing to the direction of the diffrence. This normally worked for gyro angles up to 20 degrees but not more, because then the original fire bearing changed considerably.

e. If the captain desided that the firing coarse would not be the vertical, then we used special tables (firring coarse-targte speed) which provided us the fire bearing.

I made it as simple as possible. This is more or less a kind of an art!The game nomatter any weakness is fantastic!

Anyway...back to the Pacific!

[buteobuteo]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
I use all the time for single ships,I have not used it in convoys yet. It's great for getting a good spread along the lenght of a single ship.

I use the PK to continually update Range,Seed and AOB until the torp track is straight off the bow.I then move the cross hairs to the bow of the target send a bearing to the TDC (I use the "B" key) then disengage the TDC and fire the torps with a few seconds delay between each. Although the torps all track on the same bearing the movement of the target through the cross hairs in effect creates the spread. With practice with a three torpedo spread I can usually get one on the bow,one amidship and one towards the stern.

I hope this is of some help.

[geosub1978]

It is good for close targets (<1000 yds), fast moving. I always used this in SH3 where carriers and battleships were moving fast. So I closed (<800yds) taking bearings from the bow and shoot. This way I obtained hits all along the target. If the target moves slower you can choose the moment when the aimming point passes the fire bearing and shoot just before.

But in longer distances the target can easily evade the entire salvo with one manuever. Another method is to shoot while turning the submarine so moving the bearing to the desired point or all along the target.

[nattydread]

Just for historical reasons I want to breafly point what used to happen during tha approach and attack fase.

a. The aim of the captain was to bring the submarine to a coarse vertical to target's coarse so as the gyro angle was=0. This is easily calculated. As a rule of thumb the start of submarines turn to reach the vertical coarse started when the target's AOB was 30-40 degrees.

b. Meanwhile the X.O. calculated the fire bearing through the Bearing Rate Computer.

c. The most difficult part was to match the time when the turn to the vertical coarse would be the time when the target would be on the fire bearing. For this reason the above mentioned rule of AOB=30 helped very much.




d. If at the moment of the turn completion the fire bearing was not matched, we set the gyro angle=the diffrence between the bearing of the target to the fire bearing to the direction of the diffrence. This normally worked for gyro angles up to 20 degrees but not more, because then the original fire bearing changed considerably.

e. If the captain desided that the firing coarse would not be the vertical, then we used special tables (firring coarse-targte speed) which provided us the fire bearing.

I made it as simple as possible. This is more or less a kind of an art!The game nomatter any weakness is fantastic!

Anyway...back to the Pacific!

Thats perfectly fine if you in a S-boat or some other pre-war sub or PT-boat. But damn that, we got TDCs for a reason :) i want my bells and whistles!

[nattydread]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
I use all the time for single ships,I have not used it in convoys yet. It's great for getting a good spread along the lenght of a single ship.

I use the PK to continually update Range,Seed and AOB until the torp track is straight off the bow.I then move the cross hairs to the bow of the target send a bearing to the TDC (I use the "B" key) then disengage the TDC and fire the torps with a few seconds delay between each. Although the torps all track on the same bearing the movement of the target through the cross hairs in effect creates the spread. With practice with a three torpedo spread I can usually get one on the bow,one amidship and one towards the stern.

I hope this is of some help.


hmmm...Really!?!?!?!??!

Thats beautiful. Its a must have work around. The best part is that it fress up the mouse for other actions.

[heartc]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
[...]
I hope this is of some help.

"Some help"?? Dude, you just hit the jackpot with that! This is excellent and like nattydread said, a must have mod / fix. This should be stickied in fact. It is exactly what a lot of threads were going on about, a bearing mark button independent from range measurement!

Thank you so much Buteobuteo!

[nattydread]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
I use all the time for single ships,I have not used it in convoys yet. It's great for getting a good spread along the lenght of a single ship.

I use the PK to continually update Range,Seed and AOB until the torp track is straight off the bow.I then move the cross hairs to the bow of the target send a bearing to the TDC (I use the "B" key) then disengage the TDC and fire the torps with a few seconds delay between each. Although the torps all track on the same bearing the movement of the target through the cross hairs in effect creates the spread. With practice with a three torpedo spread I can usually get one on the bow,one amidship and one towards the stern.

I hope this is of some help.

Ok I dont understand how to mod that function, If I want to set it as the "numpad 0" key how would I mod it?

[joea]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
[...]
I hope this is of some help.
"Some help"?? Dude, you just hit the jackpot with that! This is excellent and like nattydread said, a must have mod / fix. This should be stickied in fact. It is exactly what a lot of threads were going on about, a bearing mark button independent from range measurement!

Thank you so much Buteobuteo!

Buteobuteo is the winner that is an excellent find dude, both for realism and convenience!!! :rock:

[geosub1978]

I just tried it by desabling the "F" button from the flak gun.

No apparent effect. Anyone managed this?

Buteobuteo what do you mean by "disangage TDC?". This happened in SH3 but in SH4 how can you reject the TDC values? Do you mean the PK maybe?

[geosub1978]

For anyone intrested: I have noticed that in some modes there are various combinations of the Q-W-Y functions concerning the torpedo tubes. I tried to configure them in a more handfull and realistic way in order to do whatever you whant as fast as possible when you fire spreads:

Replace by Copy-Paste the following in your command.cfg file and you are going to have:

"Q": Open torpedo tube and stay open untill you close it only by "W" button.

"W": Close torpedo tube.

"Y": Cycle torpedo tube.

[Cmd308]
Name=Open_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

;[Cmd309]
;Name=Close_torpedo_tube
;Ctxt=1

[Cmd310]
Name=Open_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x51,,"Q"

[Cmd311]
Name=Close_sel_torpedo_tube
Key0=0x57,,"W"
Ctxt=1

;[Cmd312]
;Name=Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube
;Ctxt=1

[Cmd323]
Name=Cycle_torp_tube
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x57,,"W"
Key0=0x59,,"Y"

Add a ";" in front of any other - Key0=0X59,,"Y" - line of the file so it looks like
- ;Key0=0X59,,"Y"- . This will disable the previous function of the "Y" key but probably it will be one provided also on the HUD.

The above mentioned work fine for me and the idea came from the FTT mode which I thank very much!!!.

[buteobuteo]

[Buteobuteo what do you mean by "disangage TDC?". This happened in SH3 but in SH4 how can you reject the TDC values? Do you mean the PK maybe?[/quote]

Sorry but I always get them mixed.
I did in fact mean the PK. It's likley that it is possible to create a key for that as well

[geosub1978]

[Buteobuteo what do you mean by "disangage TDC?". This happened in SH3 but in SH4 how can you reject the TDC values? Do you mean the PK maybe?

Sorry but I always get them mixed.
I did in fact mean the PK. It's likley that it is possible to create a key for that as well[/quote]

OK, can you please type the moddification you have done on "B" as I cannot make it work? :down:

[RocketDog]

You can enter just the bearing if you map a key to [cmd334] in Cfg/commands.
I use all the time for single ships,I have not used it in convoys yet. It's great for getting a good spread along the lenght of a single ship.

I use the PK to continually update Range,Seed and AOB until the torp track is straight off the bow.I then move the cross hairs to the bow of the target send a bearing to the TDC (I use the "B" key) then disengage the TDC and fire the torps with a few seconds delay between each. Although the torps all track on the same bearing the movement of the target through the cross hairs in effect creates the spread. With practice with a three torpedo spread I can usually get one on the bow,one amidship and one towards the stern.

I hope this is of some help.

Ok I dont understand how to mod that function, If I want to set it as the "numpad 0" key how would I mod it?

Me neither. How does one do this?

Cheers,

RD.

[geosub1978]

According to Buteobuteo by edditing the commands.cfg file like this (if I understand it correctly) should be enough:

[Cmd334]
Name=Set_TDC_bearing
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x42,,"B"

[Cmd18]
Name=Binocular_camera
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x42,,"B"
Page=0x27000000,3706
GoBack=Conning_deck_camera

For the moment this doesn't seem to work. By pressing "B" a bearing is sent to the TDC indeed but certainly not the bearing of the periscope! Probably some addition modding is needed!

[Soundman]

Yes! Please explain this mod procedure in more detail.

[buteobuteo]

Sorry guy's I gave some duff info:oops:

I checked my cfg/commands folder and found I'd mapped the "B" key to two different cmds.

The actual [cmd] that sends the bearing is [cmd344] Mine reads:-

[cmd344]
Name=WP_Solution_to target
Ctxt=1
MnID=0x3F130003
Str=1074
Key0=0x42,,"B"

I just checked it again in port on stationary ships without using TDC and it seemed to work ok if you lock the target.

Once again my apologies for any grief caused.

(must tidy my commands folder:damn: )

[nattydread]

hmmm, it seems locking the target would defeat the purpose of being able to send whatever the bearing your scope is presently on to the TDC.

What we need is a way allow the PK to continue tracking but still allowing us to input new bearing updates indepently with the target unlocked.

[heartc]

hmmm, it seems locking the target would defeat the purpose of being able to send whatever the bearing your scope is presently on to the TDC.

What we need is a way allow the PK to continue tracking but still allowing us to input new bearing updates indepently with the target unlocked.

Correct. So, after all, this is not a fix. :dead:

[nattydread]

Yeah...but it was a good try!:up:

But maybe setting the send range function to a hot key would help speed things up a bit...granted we'll be trading off some accuracy with it.:nope: