Help me upgrade my computer!

[Sir Big Jugs]

First, a note to moderators.:oops:
I thought of posting this in the General forum, but since there's mostly politics there, and this forum is far more visited and has more computer-related topics, I posted it here. Move it if You think it still should be there...

Now then...
I got SHIV yesterday, and since it doesn't run too well at all on my current computer, I decided to follow the advice posted HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112347) and upgrade.
I have ~200€ (maybe, if I try real hard, 250€). It isn't too much, but I hope to get at least something, so I could play SHIV until the summer; when I'll be moving and getting a completely new computer.

My current rig: (Acer's prebuilt, I *think* an Aspire E-something)
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.01GHz processor
1GB RAM
ATI Radeon X700SE 256mb video card
NVIDIA nForce Audio (all the info I could find)
and Windows XP Home Edition (Finnish)

IMO the thing(s) to upgrade is/are the video card (crucial), and if any $$ remains, some more RAM. Of course, if you have any other opinions, I'd be delighted to hear.

My question in short is: so what should I get then? I'm completely lost in this vast jungle of video cards etc. A friend has promised to help out with the installation, but without knowing what to get, it can be hard to install anything!:lol:

Thanks for helping out a n00b, looking forward to hearing suggestions!

-Sir Big Jugs

[Grothesj2]

Do you have PCI-e slots? AGP? Makes a big difference on what card to get. Also when upgrading your vid card, be sure your power supply is strong enough for your card. Most of the modern cards seem to need 400-450w power supplies. I had to upgrade that when I put in my new vid card. You can usually see what sort of power supply you have if you open up your caes. It should be printed on the side somewhere.

[MONOLITH]

If you have AGP, I just went through this scenario, last week. And it's hard today to find a good AGP card anymore, everything has gone PCI.

But, luckily the fastest AGP card available is at NewEgg for $224.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102071


I bought it last week and it's great. Plus you can check out reviews at Tom's Hardware, it's the best AGP card you can buy.


Only problem with it is you will definately need a new power supply, at least a 650 watt. I bought a 550 and it wasn't enough. I had to make a frankenstein monster out of my rig, and i currently have both my 550 watt power supply (connected to the MOBO and the VPU) and my old 300 watt connected to all my drives.


I'm on a P4 2.4 ghz with 1 gig ram. Although I run fine with that Ram, that's definately the next thing to upgrade if your MOBO will take more.

Your 2 GHZ CPU is always going to be a bottleneck for you at this point though.

You might consider holding out for some more cash and buying a new PC before too long. You can get a nice AMD 2.6 ghz PCI with 2 gigs ram for about $850.

[Chock]

If you are not well up on computers, one of the big problems when it comes to upgrading is knowing exactly what you can stick in there and have it work properly.
A useful tool to have in these circumstances is this, a little utility called CPU-Z:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

You can download it for free from the above link (although naturally, they appreciate donations). It analyzes your system and reports on exactly what you've got in there, (motherboard type, RAM speeds etc etc) Which is particularly useful when it comes to upgrading your RAM, as you'll need to get the same type of RAM again if you want your old and newly-purchased RAM to work compatibly alongside one another. Different RAM brands can sometimes prove incompatible even with all the same specifications, so choose the best match you possibly can (look for an identity sticker or name printed on your currently installed RAM (unplug your computer before poking around inside it, you don't want to electrocute yourself, do you? And earth yourself before touching any sensitive components inside your PC to prevent damaging them with static electricity - you can earth yourself by touching something metal like a radiator in your house for example).

When it comes to graphics cards, it can get confusing to know which is which and what one does what, and since most people tend to either strenuously defend either NVidia, or ATI (depending on their personal experiences rather than vast technical expertise), a lot of opinions can be somewhat partisan. While advice is okay from a forum, you're far better off setting aside an hour or so and doing a little research, like this:

Armed with your info gained from CPU-Z, you will know exactly what your motherboard is, with that info you can do a search on it and get an exact spec sheet on what it can handle. With this info you can then search for compatible products with the certainty that what you are looking at buying will work okay. A good time-saving way to do this is by going to a site such as the one linked below (or any other one you prefer for that matter). In addition to listing lots of products in either price order, or name or whatever, each product gets a little spec description, so you can search for stuff in your preferred price range, and then check out that it tallies spec-wise with your motherboard:

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/

It's not rocket science, just requires a little methodical research. Good luck with it :D

[Sir Big Jugs]

G'Day again. Just checked out my computer from the inside (man, it was dusty) and indeed, the power supply was only 300W. After some more research I'll just drop all thoughts on more RAM (new computer will have ~4GB I hope :lol:), and concentrate on a video card. As I am on a tight budget, the X1950PRO is a bit out of bounds, but would something like a Sapphire Radeon X1600PRO AGP8X 256MB DDR2 DVI + TV-out
be fine? And how powerful would a new power supply have to be? Any chance of fitting those two in the same budget of 200-250€?

Thanks again,
Sir Big Jugs

[Chock]

I would certainly recommend a heavy-duty power supply in the 500-650 watt range at least, as it has to provide the juice for not just your graphics card, but all the other bits and pieces too. One thing to bear in mind is adequate cooling and ventilation, as you've discovered, it gets dusty in there and that does nothing to help performance, and can, in extreme circumstnces cause your components to fry when the heat can't get away past all that dust!
Most motherboards have plenty of pins spare, from which you can power an auxilluary fan, and these are very inexpensive, so if your PC case has a spare vent grille with no fan using it, you might want to start doing so.

[livewire68]

Just looking over at newegg (just one of the many places I shop for parts), there are many options available in your range. One was His or Sapphire AGP x1650 for about 115$. Next were power supplies. Now I never recommend the "cheapies" in the 30-50$ range. Had too many problems with them. But several good one (like Antec truepower trio 650w) for around 100$. Withoout saying this one or that one is the best, I just wanted to give you some ideas on prices and brands. Hope this helps!

[AVGWarhawk]

I have the same system as you SBJ. I dropped my Nvidia 6200 256mb for the Visiontek Radeon X1300 XGE 512mb videocard. I picked this card because it was much faster than my 6200 and like you I had a 300w power supply. The X1300 runs just fine on 300W power supply. Any card higher than this required a better power supply. Being I was not spending another $80.00 on top of the $150.00 videocard, this was the best choice for me. I run the game with all sliders to the max with exception of the sliders for the land objects and density(i do not hangout in port anyway). These set at half. The checkable options are all checked except the volumetric fog, sun glare, 3D water(seen no difference anyway). I get at the lowest 20 FPS and the highest 50 FPS. I'm very pleased with the card. Plus, I have the AA at X4 and PPF on as well:yep:. I have become a ATI fan.

[Sir Big Jugs]

I have the same system as you SBJ. I dropped my Nvidia 6200 256mb for the Visiontek Radeon X1300 XGE 512mb video card. I picked this card because it was much faster than my 6200 and like you I had a 300w power supply. The X1300 runs just fine on 300W power supply. Any card higher than this required a better power supply. Being I was not spending another $80.00 on top of the $150.00 video card, this was the best choice for me. I run the game with all sliders to the max with exception of the sliders for the land objects and density(i do not hangout in port anyway). These set at half. The checkable options are all checked except the volumetric fog, sun glare, 3D water(seen no difference anyway). I get at the lowest 20 FPS and the highest 50 FPS. I'm very pleased with the card. Plus, I have the AA at X4 and PPF on as well:yep:. I have become a ATI fan.
That sounds like a really good option then!:DAfter all, I'm not looking for something to get me the best FPS in the world, just something to hold the ground until I get a chance to make the bigger upgrade this summer/fall. I could install an for example an extra fan for the savings.:hmm: And maybe reuse the card in my new rig later.:)

I'll call around and see if I can get a good deal on the X1300.
Thanks!

[AVGWarhawk]

I have the same system as you SBJ. I dropped my Nvidia 6200 256mb for the Visiontek Radeon X1300 XGE 512mb video card. I picked this card because it was much faster than my 6200 and like you I had a 300w power supply. The X1300 runs just fine on 300W power supply. Any card higher than this required a better power supply. Being I was not spending another $80.00 on top of the $150.00 video card, this was the best choice for me. I run the game with all sliders to the max with exception of the sliders for the land objects and density(i do not hangout in port anyway). These set at half. The checkable options are all checked except the volumetric fog, sun glare, 3D water(seen no difference anyway). I get at the lowest 20 FPS and the highest 50 FPS. I'm very pleased with the card. Plus, I have the AA at X4 and PPF on as well:yep:. I have become a ATI fan.
That sounds like a really good option then!:DAfter all, I'm not looking for something to get me the best FPS in the world, just something to hold the ground until I get a chance to make the bigger upgrade this summer/fall. I could install an for example an extra fan for the savings.:hmm: And maybe reuse the card in my new rig later.:)

I'll call around and see if I can get a good deal on the X1300.
Thanks!

I installed the card only. No fans or anything. I plugged it in the MB and plugged in the power cord off the power supply. Got the new 7.3 catalyst. Tweeked for about 15 minutes. All option on the card set to quality and AA set at X4. The card is very stable. Like you, I have the 3200+/1 gig of RAM/onboard sound. It was the simpliest, best, least expensive way to go for me. It turned out to be a good choice in my case.

Remember to look for the X1300 XGE(xtreme gamer edition) 512mb it is overclocked for us knuckleheads :roll:

Once in game and all screens cached, hard drive has settled down. Game runs great. Might want to get some more RAM if you can afford it. I'm going to up mine as soon as I can get some cash for it.

It is not a kick butt card but it will pull you through. As far as IL2 and my other games...all maxed now and run better than ever.

[XanderF]

Something to consider - nVidia just released a bevy of new cards yesterday.

Their "GeForce 8600GT" is aimed at less-than-US$149, which should fit in your budget. It noticeably better than the Radeon X1650XT and GeForce 7600GT, not quite up with the Radeon X1950Pro. EDIT: Oops, if you have AGP, this advice won't help you. No GeForce 8-series for AGP. Ignore this part, rest of the advice is good.

Oh, and find a place to buy online wherever you are. "Brick and mortar" retail prices can get as high as twice the online price of parts to cover the shelf space.

I'm an ATI fan, myself, but they seem to have at least some issues with this game (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33886709) that nVidia cards don't.

[AVGWarhawk]

Seems all the cards are having an issue or two which would indicate it the game engine itself:hmm:.

Anyway, what turned me on with ATI, the Catalyst interface is very easy to use.

[bert8for3]

... Only problem with it is you will definately need a new power supply, at least a 650 watt. I bought a 550 and it wasn't enough. I had to make a frankenstein monster out of my rig, and i currently have both my 550 watt power supply (connected to the MOBO and the VPU) and my old 300 watt connected to all my drives...

I hope I'm not taking this OT or hijacking from the original inquiry, if so plse ignore, but the mention of power supplies was interesting. I picked up a new vid card a couple of weeks ago, only to realize that it needs a more powerful psu. The ATX psu size has changed since I got my comp and they won't fit in my case. So I'm curious about what you said here. Did you rig up the new psu externally? Were the wires long enough to get inside and reach, or is it possible to get extender cables?

[Grothesj2]

ATX should fit in an ATX slot. A stronger power supply may be longer but width and hieght should be the same. I got a 600w to replace my 300w and it was over an inch longer but still fit quite comfortably in my case. Maybe you can reposition some things in your case?

[bert8for3]

ATX should fit in an ATX slot. A stronger power supply may be longer but width and hieght should be the same. I got a 600w to replace my 300w and it was over an inch longer but still fit quite comfortably in my case. Maybe you can reposition some things in your case?

Tks, but that won't fly 'cause the (new) psu would butt up so close to the DVD drive that it would be impossible to plug in the cables.

[AVGWarhawk]

ATX should fit in an ATX slot. A stronger power supply may be longer but width and hieght should be the same. I got a 600w to replace my 300w and it was over an inch longer but still fit quite comfortably in my case. Maybe you can reposition some things in your case?
Tks, but that won't fly 'cause the (new) psu would butt up so close to the DVD drive that it would be impossible to plug in the cables.

You can get a new case. There are some nice ones at very good prices. Hell, everything just screws in anyway. I've switched mine before. Same issue, PS was to large.

[bert8for3]

ok, tks much guys. Let's leave it there, I feel I kinda hijacked the thread a bit. Apologies to the first poster.

[Sir Big Jugs]

ok, tks much guys. Let's leave it there, I feel I kinda hijacked the thread a bit. Apologies to the first poster.

No problem!:)

[Sir Big Jugs]

Remember to look for the X1300 XGE(xtreme gamer edition) 512mb it is overclocked for us knuckleheads :roll:

Damn, It seems like I'm going to have a hard time finding that one here in Finland.:down:

[greekfire]

I'll go ahead and throw in my .02 cents.

You're system is pretty weak and outdated. If I was in your shoes, I would refrain from throwing more money into an outdated system. Stick to upgrading things that will transition into a new system when you get more money. To be honest, any upgrades for your current system are gonna be bottlenecked by the other components anyway. Only smart decision I can see with regards to this setup is investing in a 2G RAM setup. It will give you the best all-around performance increase and RAM tends to hold its value better than anything else and you'll be able to keep it for a few years or sell it on ebay for a really good price if you decide to go 4G later. Another good potential buy would be a good EAX soundcard like Creative Labs X-Fi. They are fairly cheap now and they are the best audio cards in gaming today. They won't be going anywhere for a while. You'll also get a performance increase using a good audio card because it will take the processing load off the motherboard and do it on its own.

If anyone tells you to go upgrading your videocard, considering your current system, I think that would be a big mistake and a waste of your money. You won't get hardly any performance increase and it will be worthless for any future component changes. Your current system is just too weak to really take advantage of a higher end video card.

Your cpu, and probably your power supply too, isn't strong enough to push a good video card. not even mentioning the fact that you would be forced to buy an agp card which are expensive and underpowered by the current standards since PCI-e came out. Any changes to cpu or videocard are going to also require a motherboard and Power supply changeout because of socket changes and u will want PCI-e.

Unfortunately for you, there have been some fundamental changes to PC components in the recent year that require more than just a simple cpu or vcard changeout. You pretty much have to get an entire new rig these days to upgrade anything. By rig, I mean the cpu, motherboard, RAM, Power Supply, and proper cooling for all this stuff. Can't really just do single component changeouts until you get all the new "basics". Good luck

[AVGWarhawk]

If anyone tells you to go upgrading your videocard, considering your current system, I think that would be a big mistake and a waste of your money. You won't get hardly any performance increase and it will be worthless for any future component changes. Your current system is just too weak to really take advantage of a higher end video card.


I beg to differ on this statement. I have the exact same set up but I had a Nvidia 6200 card. This game was unplayable with this card. I purchased the X1300 and the game runs fantastically and looks even better. For someone like myself who does not have $1600.00 to blow on computers, this was the best, least expensive fix for my issues with the game play. It was a darn good choice and I play the game with all the eye candy. Not to mention all the other games I play are even better.

[Quillan]

Assuming the original poster had the money to replace the system, my advice would be the same, don't upgrade the current one. However, with a spending limit of 200€, you aren't going to be able to build a new computer. You couldn't build a new computer for $400 in the US, much less in Europe where the prices on components tend to be quite a bit higher as I understand it.

The last two Silent Hunter games require pixel shaders, I assume to handle the wave effects of the sea (ever seen screenshots from someone who got the game running on an old Geforce 4 MX card? No water). However, aside from that, the big resource requirements of this game are the processor and memory. The OP has an Athlon 64 processor. Don't underestimate these; processor speed doesn't mean a lot here. I ran SH3 on an Athlon XP 2000+, so that's a massive increase in performance over what I had then. I've found recently that going to 2 gigs of ram really helped my games, much more than I thought. Obviously the big bottleneck in his system is the video card, but unless he want's to run 2048x1536 resolution with 8xAA and 16xAF he really doesn't need something crazy. If the game runs well for AVG, then it should run well for SBJ as well.

Most subsimmers (not all) aren't into a lot of different games that require crazy amounts of video power. For those people, state-of-the-art gaming systems aren't required, and a lot of people can't afford those anyway. I couldn't go out and build a system around a Conroe X6800 with 4 gigs of ram and two 8800GTX video cards in SLI.

[AVGWarhawk]

@Quillan

Agreed! I was thinking of putting in more RAM first but the 6200 card was outdate by a long shot. I thought I should go here first. Reason, the card is tuned like lawnmower. Originally I watched Neals first movie and it looked great. Game play for Neal look smooth in his video. Most, if not all, inquired as to his system. It was not much unlike mine, I think the processor was a bit slower. Neal said he purchased a X1650 (I believe) and that was all to get his game running very well. It was at that time I thought the vid card was the way to go. It worked nicely. Now, I do have to say, once the game is loaded and rolling, my hard drive settles down, I cache all the screens and I can bounce around from screen to screen effortlessly. Sure, TC sometimes studders or I get a slowdown on VERY heavy action but it is certainly still very playable. Convoys are not issue with the system. The game can throw fog/rain/heavy seas and a convoy at me and my machine runs it very well.

As far as RAM, I wait until they are selling it for a song and they do often. That is when I get the RAM. At this point, I do not think additional RAM with the 6200 card would have satisfactorly handled the game. I'm just glad Neal posted his video and specs....definitly sent me to the store for the correct piece of hardware and at a price I could budget.:up:

[ijozic]

I'd suggest to the orginal poster to buy a used graphics card. Surely he can find a used (but still under warranty) X1800XT or X1900XT or 7900GT for under 150 EUR and he can get another 1 GB of RAM for under 100 EUR. He would notice considerable gain in performance in games.

[JSF]

My experience with SH4 was unsatisfactory even with the system I was running. I have a Dell XPS 600, 2 yrs old. Specs (were) duo core 3 gig, 2 gig ram, 160 gig ATA 10K rpm HD, Audigy SB, Nvidia pci-e 6800, 650w pwr supply, 19" digital flat panel.

Even with this setup I was experiencing mouse lag (unacceptable) with the game set at medium settings. However, I just installed a Nvidia 8800 GTS and and all video issues are gone. I know this may not be an option for some but I mention it here so others can have a bench mark.

All of my kids are grown and out of the house.....Now it's my turn....heheheheeeeee....It's good to be da king.......:up:

[greekfire]

If anyone tells you to go upgrading your videocard, considering your current system, I think that would be a big mistake and a waste of your money. You won't get hardly any performance increase and it will be worthless for any future component changes. Your current system is just too weak to really take advantage of a higher end video card.


I beg to differ on this statement. I have the exact same set up but I had a Nvidia 6200 card. This game was unplayable with this card. I purchased the X1300 and the game runs fantastically and looks even better. For someone like myself who does not have $1600.00 to blow on computers, this was the best, least expensive fix for my issues with the game play. It was a darn good choice and I play the game with all the eye candy. Not to mention all the other games I play are even better.

I definitely see your point and you are right... it would play better. The intent of my statements are simply that it wouldn't play anywhere near the cards capabilities and that the card would be a waste in the fact that it wouldn't be able to carryover into future upgrades. Sort of like being forced to buy a european sportscar because it is only car for sale that will get you to the grocery store (not sure that made sense even to me:oops: ) . It just seems to me that better long-term options would be components that would carry-over into newer systems and last for a few years. If he goes out and buys a new vcard, he will get a performance increase, probably enough to play, but it is an expensive short-term investment with rapid resell decay. Don't get me wrong, I see your point that a videocard would get him up and running, but in the long-term I think it is the most expensive option. This game uses a ton of RAM and I think that would probably help out just as much as purchasing a bottlenecked vcard. It's a very tough call and if I were in his shoes I would probably go out and buy a videocard too because I would want the instant fix regardless of the long-term consequence of wasting considerable money to get a minor performance increase but I would be angry at myself for making that decision. lol