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View Full Version : Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard Setting


AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 07:52 AM
Looks to me that on top of the usual boxes we can check, unlimited fuel, outside views etc., the drop down list of easy, normal, hard, very hard affects the amount of contacts and the aggressiveness of AI. I played very hard and contacts were very few. I went for days without radioed in convoys or seeing single merchants. I tried on the hard setting, I got some more contacts and mostly Allied vessels. After 5 days I got a radioed message on a task force. I set up my ambush. Sunk a destroyer and a carrier. Two DD found me in short order and sunk me. Not quite the same DD I had in easy mode.

Switch your game play to hard or very hard. I'm interested in finding out if you are seeing what I'm seeing. It looks to me like the developers worked on AI and contact via the selection of easy, normal, hard and very hard. Check it out and tell me what you see.

BlackSpot
04-11-07, 08:03 AM
I think we agree on this one Hawk. I'm playing on "hard" settings. Last night I was sent to the coast of Japan. Very few contact reports. One TF and one convoy. I did however bump into 2 passenger liners, one old and one new, sailing together. I picked them up on the sonar whilst travelling submerged in daylight. These contacts did not appear on the map.:p

edit. I forgot, I did come across a coastal merchant in the same area a few hours later. Again picked up on sonar, not from the map contacts.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 08:19 AM
Exactly. Now I suspect the lesser radioed contacts the less the clipboard will fill up.

BlackSpot
04-11-07, 08:21 AM
Ahhh...not tried that, i'm using the clipboard MOD. I'll turn it off and see what happens tonight:D

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 08:25 AM
Ahhh...not tried that, i'm using the clipboard MOD. I'll turn it off and see what happens tonight:D

Yeah, I got the clipboard mod also. I give that go as well. I seem to be finding more depth to the game than SH3 in respect to game play and how we can set it up to our liking:yep:

Bilge_Rat
04-11-07, 08:36 AM
I am playing very hard, 100% realism and Dize's campaign mod which reduces traffic.

I'm on the 20th day of my 1st patrol, april 1943 near Truk. I am getting about 3-5 enemy contact reports per day, single ships, TFs, convoys, scattered throughout the Pacific.

I just ran into my 1st ship, Junk, 2 tons, which my crew dispatched with the deck gun.

How does this stack up with what other people are experiencing?

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 08:39 AM
I am playing very hard, 100% realism and Dize's campaign mod which reduces traffic.

I'm on the 20th day of my 1st patrol, april 1943 near Truk. I am getting about 3-5 enemy contact reports per day, single ships, TFs, convoys, scattered throughout the Pacific.

I just ran into my 1st ship, Junk, 2 tons, which my crew dispatched with the deck gun.

How does this stack up with what other people are experiencing?
You have a few more contacts then me but I guess it depends where you are. Your patrol sounds about right, like I'm experiencing. I think very hard gives fewer contacts and perhaps this mod for reduced radio traffic may not be needed.

tater
04-11-07, 09:18 AM
Do you think the base diff level is a modifier on the % chance of the random spawns in the campaign layers, kinda like the quality of an airbase modifies its chances of sending planes your way?

Onkel Neal
04-11-07, 09:31 AM
Do you think the base diff level is a modifier on the % chance of the random spawns in the campaign layers, kinda like the quality of an airbase modifies its chances of sending planes your way?

Good question, one I think the devs can help us on. I'll ask for some info on this, no reason we should have to guess.

good hunting!
Neal

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 09:37 AM
Do you think the base diff level is a modifier on the % chance of the random spawns in the campaign layers, kinda like the quality of an airbase modifies its chances of sending planes your way?
I'm saying yes. I'm finding more depth in the thinking behind the easy, normal, hard, very hard. I'm also thinking AI is randomly smart or very dump. So far with hard selected, the AI are very tough and somewhat realistic. In easy mode they run away:o. There is definitly some thought behind the AI...we just are finding out at this point.

Thanks developers at UBI!!!!! I'm finding more good things everyday!!!!!!!

OddjobXL
04-11-07, 09:47 AM
The more I read about these things people are finding that didn't make it into the manual the more I think SH4 needs a huge FAQ or supplementary manual.

ParaB
04-11-07, 10:16 AM
I'm playing on very hard and I still get a lot of radio reports and the japanese DDs are deaf and blind pacifists.


IMO the different difficulty settings only govern which options are ticked from the start. I haven't noticed any real difference between "easy" and "very hard", as far as the enemy Ai is concerned.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 10:22 AM
I'm playing on very hard and I still get a lot of radio reports and the japanese DDs are deaf and blind pacifists.


IMO the different difficulty settings only govern which options are ticked from the start. I haven't noticed any real difference between "easy" and "very hard", as far as the enemy Ai is concerned.
Yes, might be. This is what we are trying to find out. Definitly something going on with these settings. I switched to very hard and all of a sudden the sea is dead with few contacts. Were are you patrolling? I in Celebes Sea and really have to hunt them down.

One other thing. In the options page if you change your settings before starting the game I believe it reverts back to your original settings on you last save. When in your office before mission, change the options there and they will not change from loading to loading. So I'm wondering if you changed will in game and perhaps the change to very hard did not take.

I will be testing some more today:yep:

Snuffy
04-11-07, 10:25 AM
I've played on hard from day one ... it's been a challenge, but I'm getting better at it. :)

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 10:27 AM
I've played on hard from day one ... it's been a challenge, but I'm getting better at it. :)

:up: Another one experiencing what I'm seeing:yep:

Do you experience fewer contacts and DD that are aggressive?

tater
04-11-07, 10:31 AM
The problem with learning the mission editor is that I can instantly see how little attention was paid to history. Open scripted stuff like the opening war in the philipines/NEI, and there are as many DDs in that one mission as the entire IJN actually had, and more than half are a type that wasn't in service (odd, since ALL the other DDs they made are actually appropriate choices had they used them).

I'd probably change your history rating from 9/10 to .9/10, Neal ;)

Course I'm a stickler, but the errors are pretty gross, and not required given all the stuff they made to chose from. The tools are mostly there, though some actual dynamism in the campaigns is really required to make this thing sing. Not war-altering stuff, just the ability to maintain a list of sunk ships, and pass it fropm one patrol to the next so that the list of sunk ships gets subtracted from the available pool. Seems like they have a start there in the Roster files, but they never got it finished. If that is never on the plate to fix/add, I'm not sure how long I'll maintain interest, I can't do a campaign and see 3 Yamatos, or Fusos, (or someday Kagas or Akagis with mods) and suspend disbelief.

tater

Snuffy
04-11-07, 10:34 AM
Do you experience fewer contacts ...

I can't say for sure what the contact ratio is because I've nothing to experience it by, in that I've never played on easy or any other setting other than hard. So it's all the same to me.

I get radio calls a plenty while on missions. I usually start in the Phillippines with an S class.

... and DD that are aggressive?

DDs in my careers have truely sucked ... last night I got sent to Davey's locker because while I was taking pop shots with my deck gun at a stalled DD, his brother ran my ass over! Hit me in the sail and rocked my boat. His BTW ... didn't survive and blew up and sunk off my stern. (I got no credit for this sinking.) However this DD put a hurtin on me and I went to the bottom. My crews couldn't repair fast enough.

Other encounters have caused DDs to chase me for a good couple NMs while trying to avoid them. A real palm sweater.

BlackSpot
04-11-07, 10:41 AM
I've just tried my saved campaign (hard setting) turning off the clipboard MOD and the aircraft MOD. I was instanly attacked, at night, in a pea soup mist by two aircraft.:cry:

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 10:41 AM
Do you experience fewer contacts ...
I can't say for sure what the contact ratio is because I've nothing to experience it by, in that I've never played on easy or any other setting other than hard. So it's all the same to me.

I get radio calls a plenty while on missions. I usually start in the Phillippines with an S class.

... and DD that are aggressive?
DDs in my careers have truely sucked ... last night I got sent to Davey's locker because while I was taking pop shots with my deck gun at a stalled DD, his brother ran my ass over! Hit me in the sail and rocked by boat. His BTW ... didn't survive and blew up and sunk off my stern. (I got no credit for this sinking.) However this DD put a hurtin on me and I went to the bottom. My crews couldn't repair fast enough.

Other encounters have caused DDs to chase me for a good couple NMs while trying to avoid them. A real palm sweater.

Your experience is the DD are good when game set on hard? Aggressive? Do not run away like some say they do?

:hmm: If you feel like doing this, do not change your fuel, outside view set-up etc., just change the drop down to easy. See how the DD act then. If you do it let us know if you see a difference.

U-Bones
04-11-07, 10:48 AM
I'm playing on very hard and I still get a lot of radio reports and the japanese DDs are deaf and blind pacifists.


IMO the different difficulty settings only govern which options are ticked from the start. I haven't noticed any real difference between "easy" and "very hard", as far as the enemy Ai is concerned.

Same here. Never selected anything except Very Hard. Although I have encountered non patsy DD's.

I agree that difficulty is simply a template for option selections.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 10:49 AM
The problem with learning the mission editor is that I can instantly see how little attention was paid to history. Open scripted stuff like the opening war in the philipines/NEI, and there are as many DDs in that one mission as the entire IJN actually had, and more than half are a type that wasn't in service (odd, since ALL the other DDs they made are actually appropriate choices had they used them).

I'd probably change your history rating from 9/10 to .9/10, Neal ;)

Course I'm a stickler, but the errors are pretty gross, and not required given all the stuff they made to chose from. The tools are mostly there, though some actual dynamism in the campaigns is really required to make this thing sing. Not war-altering stuff, just the ability to maintain a list of sunk ships, and pass it fropm one patrol to the next so that the list of sunk ships gets subtracted from the available pool. Seems like they have a start there in the Roster files, but they never got it finished. If that is never on the plate to fix/add, I'm not sure how long I'll maintain interest, I can't do a campaign and see 3 Yamatos, or Fusos, (or someday Kagas or Akagis with mods) and suspend disbelief.

tater

I can honestly say I have only seen one task force. That was last night. I have the reduced radio traffic mod and playing on HARD in the drop down list. But yeah, if you are seeing all those....there is an issue. Unfortunate I do not believe the game is that dynamic. It will always respawn down the road.

hmatthias
04-11-07, 11:23 AM
Is the altered campaign layer any good? I am tired of seein unrealistic stuff, like Japanese merchants, unescorted, off the coast of Australia in 1943. Wondering if I should go to it or not

capt_frank
04-11-07, 12:04 PM
Geez, I hate to be such a goomba, but where is this box wherein one can select easy through very hard, etc. All I see is drop box that sayz low to realistic. The same?

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 12:07 PM
Geez, I hate to be such a goomba, but where is this box wherein one can select easy through very hard, etc. All I see is drop box that sayz low to realistic. The same?

Might depend on the version....your sounds like my description of it. Anyway, in the gameplay options page you can see the drop down list at the top.

Faamecanic
04-11-07, 12:13 PM
Where can you change the "Easy, Hard, Very Hard.." selection? I have only seen this once, and that was when I was making up my sub commander's career. I do know you can change "Realism" in your office, but I have seen no where to change the general level of difficulty.

I started mine on Easy, only to get a feel for SH4.... DD's for the most part come to almost a dead stop when I hit a convoy... but I have had A FEW actively search for me. But only a FEW.

Deep Six
04-11-07, 02:20 PM
I'm in a campaign now using the "Hard" setting , and I'm getting heaps of contacts and reports.....Only my second patrol..I'm in the south china sea's..And I'm very very aware though that DD's are extremely aggressive when your seen....BUT they turn very very dumb when you are in amongst them....Last night i had a convoy sighted at long range...Weather kinda crappy high sea's with rain, stayed up top until the last minutes, dived to peri and started my manual work on a medium composite...leading DD went right past...Anyways i missed with two torps on the composite but my third actually hit a small tanker that was following behind...

Went deep and heard the pings from dd's (Three in all)....decided seeing that the weather was favourable i surfaced right in the middle of a BIG bloody Convoy...Did not realise just how big.....Well the fun began....I just tore up that convoy with my deck gun.....47K of tonnage and did not get a single shot from ANY of the DD's it was like they were scared to come inside the convoy cordon.....It wasn't until I had actually taken out two ships in procession that a "Hole" was made and that's when a DD slipped inside the cordon....But i was already going deep and moving away silently.

So DD's are aggressive when you are in the open water....But once inside the convoy...They do not seem to react anymore.....Oh yeah and Again. and I'm seeing this a lot now....The convoy slowed right down from doing 12 knots to a creep. Why don't that scatter, it was a turkey shoot!!!

Deep Six

tater
04-11-07, 02:20 PM
Unfortunately the campaign layers are better FUBAR. The have merchants steamign ti Gudalcanal long after the US arrives, you can leave a friendly base to find enemy ships apparently headign for your harbor (merchants). Many of the convoys/merchant paths need to be deleted, or have start/stop dates worked on.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 02:57 PM
Unfortunately the campaign layers are better FUBAR. The have merchants steamign ti Gudalcanal long after the US arrives, you can leave a friendly base to find enemy ships apparently headign for your harbor (merchants). Many of the convoys/merchant paths need to be deleted, or have start/stop dates worked on.

I believe and from what I read over at the UBI forum today, the easy, normal etc settings pertain to warship/aircraft AI and how aggressive they are. Something about 6% better sensors as well. As far as merchants going here and there at wrong dates and steaming into my port like they own it....this is probably a whole other ball game :yep:

Skubber
04-11-07, 03:00 PM
You set the difficulty level when you set up for a new career, along with start-year, renown, etc.

Seems like SH3 veterans should begin with the "hard" setting, at a minimum.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 03:01 PM
I'm in a campaign now using the "Hard" setting , and I'm getting heaps of contacts and reports.....Only my second patrol..I'm in the south china sea's..And I'm very very aware though that DD's are extremely aggressive when your seen....BUT they turn very very dumb when you are in amongst them....Last night i had a convoy sighted at long range...Weather kinda crappy high sea's with rain, stayed up top until the last minutes, dived to peri and started my manual work on a medium composite...leading DD went right past...Anyways i missed with two torps on the composite but my third actually hit a small tanker that was following behind...

Went deep and heard the pings from dd's (Three in all)....decided seeing that the weather was favourable i surfaced right in the middle of a BIG bloody Convoy...Did not realise just how big.....Well the fun began....I just tore up that convoy with my deck gun.....47K of tonnage and did not get a single shot from ANY of the DD's it was like they were scared to come inside the convoy cordon.....It wasn't until I had actually taken out two ships in procession that a "Hole" was made and that's when a DD slipped inside the cordon....But i was already going deep and moving away silently.

So DD's are aggressive when you are in the open water....But once inside the convoy...They do not seem to react anymore.....Oh yeah and Again. and I'm seeing this a lot now....The convoy slowed right down from doing 12 knots to a creep. Why don't that scatter, it was a turkey shoot!!!

Deep Six

I heard much the same, when DD get inside it is like they turn into a merchant...slow and dumb. I have not seen this yet. Once again...modders to the rescue.:rock:

capt_frank
04-11-07, 03:04 PM
Doh! I found it, I've been staring at it for daze now. Right on the "Career" page when you select name, year, base, etc. :arrgh!:

As Rosana would say "Nevermind"...

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 03:07 PM
Doh! I found it, I've been staring at it for daze now. Right on the "Career" page when you select name, year, base, etc. :arrgh!:

As Rosana would say "Nevermind"...

Turn it on and let us know what you experience with it. Getting some mixed reviews.

Teh_Diplomat
04-11-07, 03:09 PM
The difficulty settings for Career also cause a discrepancy with your realism settings.

If you select Custom difficulty in the gameplay options screen to customize what options you want left on(Event Cam, Ext. Cam, Auto-TDC, etc) it sets those to custom; Yet when you start a career you can only choose one the pre-determined realism settings based on the difficulty.

So even though you can play at 60% realism in single missions by selecting your custom settings, your career can not have an event camera, because that is the only option disabled from the 'easy' setting(6% realism). I have yet to find a way to use your custom gameplay settings in your career. Another overlooked problem...

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 03:12 PM
The difficulty settings for Career also cause a discrepancy with your realism settings.

If you select Custom difficulty in the gameplay options screen to customize what options you want left on(Event Cam, Ext. Cam, Auto-TDC, etc) it sets those to custom; Yet when you start a career you can only choose one the pre-determined realism settings based on the difficulty.

So even though you can play at 60% realism in single missions by selecting your custom settings, your career can not have an event camera, because that is the only option disabled from the 'easy' setting(6% realism). I have yet to find a way to use your custom gameplay settings in your career. Another overlooked problem...

I believe you need to find the options in the office before you set sail. It is in the bookcase on the left. From here you can set what you want and it will save these settings as your career progresses.

RickC Sniper
04-11-07, 03:39 PM
My experience is the same as Deep Six. Escorts are aggressive until you get inside their screen. They won't go around a merchant to come after you.

IMO the easy, normal, hard, etc setting at a carreer start is just a baseline for the realism options, which you can change or fine tune later anyway.

It'll be interesting to see if Neal can get the devs to respond.

Another Question I have is why a selection for how much renown you want at a carreer start? There seems to be no reason not to take all you can get. At least, no penalty for not doing so.

hmatthias
04-11-07, 03:41 PM
The messed up campaign layer must be the cause of me seeing unescorted merchants near Australia in 1943 then. was pretty silly seeing them, and wondering what they were doing and where they were going. I hope somebody fixes the campaign layers soon.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 03:45 PM
The messed up campaign layer must be the cause of me seeing unescorted merchants near Australia in 1943 then. was pretty silly seeing them, and wondering what they were doing and where they were going. I hope somebody fixes the campaign layers soon.

Once the next patch is out I suspect the modders will really start moving on new mods and fixes.

U-Bones
04-11-07, 03:51 PM
I believe and from what I read over at the UBI forum today, the easy, normal etc settings pertain to warship/aircraft AI and how aggressive they are. Something about 6% better sensors as well...
Interesting. Wonder how this works in non career ?

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 03:53 PM
I believe and from what I read over at the UBI forum today, the easy, normal etc settings pertain to warship/aircraft AI and how aggressive they are. Something about 6% better sensors as well...
Interesting. Wonder how this works in non career ?

I think it is in the manual also I have to recheck but I do remember see 6% on sensors somewhere

Faamecanic
04-11-07, 04:16 PM
You set the difficulty level when you set up for a new career, along with start-year, renown, etc.

Seems like SH3 veterans should begin with the "hard" setting, at a minimum.

So again...the ONLY way to set this is when you set up a new career...?! This should be adjustable at any time your in port... another dumb setting restricted by menus :down:

Well I guess I get to start over with a new career...thats OK as my current one (on patrol 12) will NOT give me any mission other than "Deploy off coast of Honshu" or "Patrol of coast of Honshu"...Im beginning to think that the war is only fought "off the coast of Honshu"

Sailor Steve
04-11-07, 04:34 PM
Maybe they thought you would know how you wanted to play and wouldn't want to change until the next career.:rotfl:

Or maybe they didn't think.

capt_frank
04-11-07, 05:00 PM
Doh! I found it, I've been staring at it for daze now. Right on the "Career" page when you select name, year, base, etc. :arrgh!:

As Rosana would say "Nevermind"...

Turn it on and let us know what you experience with it. Getting some mixed reviews.

I gave it a whirl a few minutes ago. Set it to "very hard". I couldn't get into the game play option screen while in-game (the option just wasn't there) so that I could see what was or wasn't checked; however, I would say that it probably caused all the game play settings to be set to either "really freakin' hard" or "bombastically realistic". Needless to say, I had to watch my P's and Q's, no more unlimited anything, no outside views, no map contacts at all. Glad my radar man was awake!

At first blush, I liked it; however, I think I'd rather choose my settings in the game play options rather than go this way.

"...and that's all I've got to say about that..."

Frank - out.

BlackSpot
04-11-07, 05:07 PM
Doh! I found it, I've been staring at it for daze now. Right on the "Career" page when you select name, year, base, etc. :arrgh!:

As Rosana would say "Nevermind"...

Turn it on and let us know what you experience with it. Getting some mixed reviews.

I gave it a whirl a few minutes ago. Set it to "very hard". I couldn't get into the game play option screen while in-game (the option just wasn't there) so that I could see what was or wasn't checked; however, I would say that it probably caused all the game play settings to be set to either "really freakin' hard" or "bombastically realistic". Needless to say, I had to watch my P's and Q's, no more unlimited anything, no outside views, no map contacts at all. Glad my radar man was awake!

At first blush, I liked it; however, I think I'd rather choose my settings in the game play options rather than go this way.

"...and that's all I've got to say about that..."

Frank - out.

you CAN still change/cutomise your REALISIM settings.:yep:

NaKacu
04-11-07, 05:10 PM
Definitely another confirmation.

First time around, tired easy then moved to hard setting. The realism is completely different from the difficulty level. Seems that lots of items get affected on the AI part. In my case I found the shocking difference in accuracy of enemy airplanes.

:up:

If you played SH3 you will be mislead thinking that realism is affected by the % settings.

Bilge_Rat
04-11-07, 05:27 PM
Unfortunately the campaign layers are better FUBAR. The have merchants steamign ti Gudalcanal long after the US arrives, you can leave a friendly base to find enemy ships apparently headign for your harbor (merchants). Many of the convoys/merchant paths need to be deleted, or have start/stop dates worked on.

I believe and from what I read over at the UBI forum today, the easy, normal etc settings pertain to warship/aircraft AI and how aggressive they are. Something about 6% better sensors as well. As far as merchants going here and there at wrong dates and steaming into my port like they own it....this is probably a whole other ball game :yep:


hmmm, I am playing "very hard" and am far from home...:hmm:

Let's see if I can get back in one piece. I have been attacked by 4 airplanes so far in 20 days, crash dived each time, 2 near misses but no damage.

kiwi_2005
04-11-07, 05:48 PM
I think after playing in easy and normal mode, these two options the AI was deliberately set to stupid for newbie players that have never played a subsim but heard about this SHIV saw a few pictures of it, and thought wow im gonna try this. So they head out first time ever in a submarine probably very confuse and some could even be still sitting in front of their PC in 1x cause they haven't realise you can up the time compression :rotfl: well lets hope not as that would put them off. They come across a convoy and the last thing they would want is some elite destroyer scarying them away, they sink alot of ships, shoot down a couple of bombers and zeros on the way back, head back to base with a 50000tonnage score receieve medals, (i like how they give you a nice presentation if your done well in the patrol) & could be offered a new boat. They're instantly hooked to the game.
Maybe this was to ease new players into the game. The rest of us should be playing this game on Hard or very hard. Nothing less.

Fearless
04-11-07, 05:55 PM
Does that mean that the Realism setting before starting the game gets changed when you set the difficulty level before you start the career? I'm confused on that.:oops: Nothing is mentioned in the manual regarding the Easy to Very Hard options

Snuffy
04-11-07, 06:02 PM
Your experience is the DD are good when game set on hard? Aggressive? Do not run away like some say they do?

I have personally not experienced the results of some of the forum commentors about DDs. None of the DDs I have encountered have ever run away. They've managed a good deal of tracking me down and DCing an area where they last got a ping, but I've been able to slip out past them while they are actively searching for me.

I'd say they are Good, and I'd have to say that on the hard setting they are aggressive.

But as I said, I have no imperical data to relate this to as I've not played the game on any other setting other than hard, and I don't know that I want to, unless it is extremely hard.

AVGWarhawk
04-11-07, 06:03 PM
Does that mean that the Realism setting before starting the game gets changed when you set the difficulty level before you start the career? I'm confused on that.:oops: Nothing is mentioned in the manual regarding the Easy to Very Hard options

When you start a career, you are placed in the office. At this point over to the left in the bookcase is the options page you can open. Select how you want to play and then up top, select easy, normal, hard, your butt is toast....this affects the AI and their aggressivness. This might automatically check or uncheck some of the options like unlimited fuel, etc. Recheck or uncheck what you want here. Once that is done and you set out for patrol it will save your settings until you change them again in the office.

Grotius
04-11-07, 06:22 PM
I play on "Hard" with 92% realism -- only the external cam (for screenshots). I've had limited experience with DDs, but in my one major encounter, they pinged me aggressively and sank me with depth charges. They didn't run away.

I've heard people talk as if they know where the DDs are above them. I didn't have the foggiest idea! I don't use the external cam to peek at the enemy -- just to take screenshots -- so I was fighting blind. Everything happened too fast for me to have a fix on where the enemy was. It seemed pretty realistic to me.

tater
04-11-07, 09:09 PM
I've only ever fired this thing up on the hardest setting, with the realism options then dropped down (external camera so I can see pretty pictures, and easy targeting until the TDC issues are ironed out).

The merchant escorts are still morons. If the diff level makes em better, can't be by much or I wouldn't have been able to destroy 4 fleet DDs on the surface in a BB task force (set to veteran for sure given all my looks at the eastasiacampaign misison.

tater

Fearless
04-12-07, 12:56 AM
Does that mean that the Realism setting before starting the game gets changed when you set the difficulty level before you start the career? I'm confused on that.:oops: Nothing is mentioned in the manual regarding the Easy to Very Hard options

When you start a career, you are placed in the office. At this point over to the left in the bookcase is the options page you can open. Select how you want to play and then up top, select easy, normal, hard, your butt is toast....this affects the AI and their aggressivness. This might automatically check or uncheck some of the options like unlimited fuel, etc. Recheck or uncheck what you want here. Once that is done and you set out for patrol it will save your settings until you change them again in the office.

Thanks AVGWarhawk.

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 08:03 AM
I've only ever fired this thing up on the hardest setting, with the realism options then dropped down (external camera so I can see pretty pictures, and easy targeting until the TDC issues are ironed out).

The merchant escorts are still morons. If the diff level makes em better, can't be by much or I wouldn't have been able to destroy 4 fleet DDs on the surface in a BB task force (set to veteran for sure given all my looks at the eastasiacampaign misison.

tater
Here is my question tater, are you setting these options up in the office before patrol? The reason I ask, you can set options up outside the career office but these don't always stay the same when you start a career in the office. I ran into this. I set up an option outside of the career, started a career and the option was off. It also happens on the drop down list.

As far as aggression, last night I had two merchants charging me on the surface. Thankfully I had the stern cannon and was blasting away while on the run:yep:. I notice a difference in AI reactions concerning the drop down list.

DimDoms
04-12-07, 08:13 AM
....Oh yeah and Again. and I'm seeing this a lot now....The convoy slowed right down from doing 12 knots to a creep. Why don't that scatter, it was a turkey shoot!!!

Deep Six

Yes, I've seen this twice in a patrol...can't get through to sh4bugs, does anyone know if it's been logged?

D.

tater
04-12-07, 08:30 AM
I selected the hardest setting on starting the campaign, then dropped the realism settings in the office bookshelf.

In this last campaign (I reloaded the game to try and fix CTDs, no joy) I have a huge tonnage for 2 patrols (over 100k since I got Yamato, a CL, and the IJA "escort" carrier (really a plane-ferry) in addition to all the merchants). I have yet to be DCed close at all, though I was happy to hear some of the TF escorts blowing holes in the water, presumably where I used to be. Was not the least bit close, however. Even the merchant convoys have been pretty tame, and I set the 42a campaign layer merchant convoy AIs to "competant" as a bare minimum---and the fleet DDs are set to Veteran, regardless of where they appear in my game. Some elites throw in for good measure. OTOH, I have radically dropped the number of such merchant escorts, I have yet to see more than 1 per convoy, though I have seen a few subchasers.

It's pretty ad, if the weather is stormy, seeing a DD makes me think (in game terms, not reality) that I should surface and sink him. I sneak past instead knowing that I could sink him at will on the surface, which is just wrong.

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 08:51 AM
I selected the hardest setting on starting the campaign, then dropped the realism settings in the office bookshelf.

In this last campaign (I reloaded the game to try and fix CTDs, no joy) I have a huge tonnage for 2 patrols (over 100k since I got Yamato, a CL, and the IJA "escort" carrier (really a plane-ferry) in addition to all the merchants). I have yet to be DCed close at all, though I was happy to hear some of the TF escorts blowing holes in the water, presumably where I used to be. Was not the least bit close, however. Even the merchant convoys have been pretty tame, and I set the 42a campaign layer merchant convoy AIs to "competant" as a bare minimum---and the fleet DDs are set to Veteran, regardless of where they appear in my game. Some elites throw in for good measure. OTOH, I have radically dropped the number of such merchant escorts, I have yet to see more than 1 per convoy, though I have seen a few subchasers.

It's pretty ad, if the weather is stormy, seeing a DD makes me think (in game terms, not reality) that I should surface and sink him. I sneak past instead knowing that I could sink him at will on the surface, which is just wrong.

I just can not make sense out of this. I have hard set, sail around for over 10 days and get few contacts. I finally nailed three last night. I did see Allied contacts. No warships on this patrol. Two of the merchants I went after on the surface, the both charged me. The third just stopped and took his beating. Random AI aggressiveness?:hmm:

kiwi_2005
04-12-07, 09:10 AM
While in the game playing hard mode i came across a large taskforce, 3 carriers, 1 carrier very large and long in length, 2 heavy cruisers about 5 destroyers, & about 4 other ships i couldn't identified or make out, possible light cruisers?. I sunk a destroyer and Heavy cruiser. I was aiming for the large carrier but all torps struck the cruiser and sunk her instead.
Then spotted through scope 3 destroyers closest to me start turning in my direction and heading my way, went deep waited for the depth charge attack sat it out, then found a thermal layer, at 220 feet according to my officer, so stayed under this layer cruising at 3knots and destroyers lost contact. Manage to get away. Now reloading torps and see if i can catch up and have another go. First Taskforce ive encountered since playing SHIV. Awesome! :arrgh!:

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 09:23 AM
While in the game playing hard mode i came across a large taskforce, 3 carriers, 1 carrier very large and long in length, 2 heavy cruisers about 5 destroyers, & about 4 other ships i couldn't identified or make out, possible light cruisers?. I sunk a destroyer and Heavy cruiser. I was aiming for the large carrier but all torps struck the cruiser and sunk her instead.
Then spotted through scope 3 destroyers closest to me start turning in my direction and heading my way, went deep waited for the depth charge attack sat it out, then found a thermal layer, at 220 feet according to my officer, so stayed under this layer cruising at 3knots and destroyers lost contact. Manage to get away. Now reloading torps and see if i can catch up and have another go. First Taskforce ive encountered since playing SHIV. Awesome! :arrgh!:

I had my first taskforce two nights ago. Sunk a destroyer and a carrier. Got blasted to the bottom by two very good DD.:oops: Task forces are fun:yep:

tater
04-12-07, 09:29 AM
Not only that, I have messed with the layers. There are no fleet DDs in my '42 world set to poor or novice. They still suck.

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 09:38 AM
Not only that, I have messed with the layers. There are no fleet DDs in my '42 world set to poor or novice. They still suck.

Don't know what to tell you tater......I got my butt zapped by two DD in under a minute. I was at 220 feet and under the thermal layer.:dead:

tater
04-12-07, 09:43 AM
To be fair the 2 large TFs I attacked were in rough weather. Very rough weather. When I sank Yamato I was little more than a Yamato boat-length away from her---farther than that and I couldn't even see her, lol.

OTOH, the merchants have been in fairly clear weather.

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 09:51 AM
To be fair the 2 large TFs I attacked were in rough weather. Very rough weather. When I sank Yamato I was little more than a Yamato boat-length away from her---farther than that and I couldn't even see her, lol.

OTOH, the merchants have been in fairly clear weather.

I have noticed in very rough weather the AI just look like they are trying to survive.:yep: Seen two DD get swamped and go under.

Steeltrap
04-12-07, 03:02 PM
My experience is like Tater's.

I've always started campaign on "very hard", then changed the options in the office (such as external cam).

I started in Manilla with a Sargo class I think. 4" stern deck mount, SD radar, twin 20mm.

I have encountered what appear to be transport TFs - they have a few CL and above warships, multiple (usually about 6-8) DDs, and a tail of 8 fast, small transports sailing in double column. When I've attacked them I've usually crippled a heavy cruiser. The entire TF slows to about 4kts. The escorts never find me. In fact, most of them slow to the same speed. Then they all sit around doing nothing much other than spraying searchlights all over the place. I often have time to reload and do another attack. It's pathetic.

I have not been DC once. Not even close. Sure, they've plastered some fish, but usually about 10 at most then they nick off after only about 10-15 mins.

The problem of ships ALL slowing to the speed of the most damaged one is a real issue. Convoys and TFs both do it.

So, I can't at all relate to what some of you have described (wish I could). My experience is that of a turkey shoot. After 3 patrols I have over 100k tonnage.

I've stopped playing until 1.2 comes out and then the modders get stuck into it. Frustrating, but not the end of the world! I play Oblivion in the time I would otherwise use for SH IV (now there is a game that knows how to use graphics capabilities!).

Cheers

tater
04-12-07, 05:09 PM
Yeah, the convoy AI really exacerbates the problem. The stopping/slowing perhaps needs to be randomized. Not sure in RL exactly hat would happen---I've read accounts of staying to pick up survivors, but clearly it would depend. I think if they were cargo ships, the escorts would try to shellac the sub, and pick up the small number of survivors. If the ship as an AP, OTOH, I think they'd stop to rescue the perhaps many thousands of people in the water.

It's like there needs to be a group parameter that you can set to determine if they will hang around for a slow ship.

tater

Onkel Neal
04-12-07, 05:14 PM
From the Dev producer Emil:

Career “difficulty” levels represent different realism settings. Basically the 4 difficulty settings represent the 4 realism settings found in Gameplay Options, with Easy being the 6% realism option and Very Hard being the 100% realism setting

tater
04-12-07, 05:28 PM
Ah, so there we have it, it has nothing to do with AI levels, they are what they are set at in the missions.

tater

AVGWarhawk
04-12-07, 06:33 PM
Ok, that clears up that matter.....now, how do we make the DD a little brighter in the tactics department:hmm:

Thanks Neal!

FAdmiral
04-12-07, 09:46 PM
I had to do a completely new install of SH4 and the 1.1 patch before I
got results like I should have. With the first install, the AI was useless.

JIM

AVGWarhawk
04-13-07, 07:52 AM
I had to do a completely new install of SH4 and the 1.1 patch before I
got results like I should have. With the first install, the AI was useless.

JIM

This is the second time I heard this. Another player said the AI sucked. He did a reinstall and the AI were aggressive and acting like they should.

Just another mystery of the SH4 program:hmm:

tater
04-13-07, 08:11 AM
I reinstalled though.

SgtWalt65
04-15-07, 12:32 AM
Looks to me that on top of the usual boxes we can check, unlimited fuel, outside views etc., the drop down list of easy, normal, hard, very hard affects the amount of contacts and the aggressiveness of AI. I played very hard and contacts were very few. I went for days without radioed in convoys or seeing single merchants. I tried on the hard setting, I got some more contacts and mostly Allied vessels. After 5 days I got a radioed message on a task force. I set up my ambush. Sunk a destroyer and a carrier. Two DD found me in short order and sunk me. Not quite the same DD I had in easy mode.

Switch your game play to hard or very hard. I'm interested in finding out if you are seeing what I'm seeing. It looks to me like the developers worked on AI and contact via the selection of easy, normal, hard and very hard. Check it out and tell me what you see.

I think AVGWarhawk is on to something here with the Hard settings. I made a new campaign last night and used the hardest setting. Also noticed the missions are a lot different on that setting and a bit more of a nail biter. Its an entirely different game on that setting.

The first contacts I got were only when I was within about 100 miles from the southeast coast of Japan and more once I got into the Sea of Japan ( about twice more than on the Jap East Coast ) and on into the Yellow Sea. I was making about 5 knots at 120 feet down when I herd screws turning that clearly where not mine, ( herd them through the hull not via sonar station ) but my sonar man never reported any contacts. I went to PD to take a little peak, nothing at 0 to 150 and 0 to 250 degrees left and right of heading, but at 170 to about 200 degrees of heading and closing very fast all I could say was :o OMG...Emergency.... DIVE....DIVE....DIVE < insert klaxon sound > I almost got ran over. Was in the front of a very "LARGE" convoy with closest ship only 400 away and on collision course with my little sub and he was low in the water, took damage to both of my scopes ( hello mister kill my watch tower crew bug :damn: ) and my AA Gun. My SO never said a word.:stare: Upon clearing the convoy and finding a safe place to surface again, my SO was found guilty of "Dereliction of Duty" and was summarly executed! :stare:

MikeJW
04-15-07, 02:53 AM
I usually play on normal but I started a new career out of Pearl, '41, on hard and the pickings are a lot slimmer than on normal. Very few contacts while on normal you get swamped by contact reports.

SgtWalt65
04-15-07, 01:57 PM
I usually play on normal but I started a new career out of Pearl, '41, on hard and the pickings are a lot slimmer than on normal. Very few contacts while on normal you get swamped by contact reports.

Yep, there is something to these game play settings. More than meets the eye and then some. Must be something in the hard code we are nor privy too.

Faamecanic
04-15-07, 04:33 PM
I had to do a completely new install of SH4 and the 1.1 patch before I
got results like I should have. With the first install, the AI was useless.

JIM

Guess thats my next step. Only DD to ever sink me was when I laid in wait (at P-scope depth) for a LARGE task force coming at me. I mis-judged thier course and and went into TC...well needless to say I had put myself right in the MIDDLE of them! Damn DDs rammed me.... lol

But other than that...the DDs have been dumb as a box of rocks...

Subsim Monitor
04-16-07, 10:10 PM
In the Cgf folder, the Gameplay Settings file:

[Easy]
LimitedBatteries=false
LimitedCompressedAir=false
LimitedO2=false
LimitedFuel=false
RealisticRepairTime=false
ManualTargetingSystem=false
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=false
DudTorpedoes=false
RealisticReload=false
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=false
NoStabilizeView=false
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

[Normal]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=false
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=false
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=false
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=false
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=false
NoStabilizeView=false
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

[Hard]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=true
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=true
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=true
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=true
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=false
NoStabilizeView=false
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

[Realistic]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=true
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=true
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=true
NoMapUpdate=true
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=true
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=true
NoStabilizeView=true
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

[RealismPercentage]
LimitedBatteriesRealismPercentage=7
LimitedCompressedAirRealismPercentage=2
LimitedO2RealismPercentage=8
LimitedFuelRealismPercentage=8
RealisticRepairTimeRealismPercentage=8
ManualTargetingSystemRealismPercentage=15
NoMapUpdateRealismPercentage=12
RealisticSensorsRealismPercentage=6
DudTorpedoesRealismPercentage=7
RealisticReloadRealismPercentage=6
NoEventCameraRealismPercentage=6
NoExternalViewRealismPercentage=8
NoStabilizeViewRealismPercentage=7
MPShowPlayerNamesRealismPercentage=0
MPShowTorpedoesRealismPercentage=0

[MiscSettings]
AlwaysAutotargeting=0,0,0,0,0;for warships, merchants, uboats, air and land targets


So, it appears the career start difficulty settings are indeed just preconfigged realism options. Lol, better to check the HQ radio for what you are about to play.

AVGWarhawk
04-17-07, 08:38 AM
I'm not much of a drinker but I seriously notice a difference if I let the game do it. In other words, if I click hard settings, the boxes for this choice are automatically done. I then click on the options I want to change. I just leave the outside views on. I get few contacts by doing this. If I check all the boxes myself and do not mess with the drop down easy, normal, etc list. It is a much different game play. Then again, It all depends on where you are patrolling. Last night I was assigned to the S. China Sea. I nailed three ships in a group, two singletons and then a task force came my way. One carrier sunk and two DD sunk. I would have to say the DD was darn stupid. I was on the surface, night time, the DD was no less then 200 yards off my port and floated on by like I was not there. He did a circle around me and headed off. Strangest thing I have ever seen. Other times I have had the DD come right at me while submerged at 250 feet and drop an ash can with precision.

It is like a box of chocolates.....ya' never know what you're gonna get!