I'd like to see dynamic shipping lanes

[nattydread]

I'd like to see shipping adapt, if Im causing havoc in an area, i'd like to sea shipping begin to decrease in the area due to them being diverted along other routes. I'd like to see shipping begin to pick up escorts in hot areas. I'd like these trends to be carried over through subsequent patrols., so if Im sent right back there again next patrol, I'd see the dreadful fruits of my labor. I'd like to see shipping follow realistic and intuitive patterns. I'd like intelligent choices in hunting grounds influence my success.

I want to feel like I'm hunting, I dont want to feel as if ships are just randomly spawning in for my pleasure, as if Im a ship magnet.

I'd like to have other sub's patrols simulated so if Im sent to an area that another sub just go back from and raped it, I'd expect thin pickings or increased escorts, or increase patrols, or merchants a little bit more on guard.

I dont want to feel like the only sub in the Pacific, i dont want a war in my own personal vacuum.

[CCIP]

I think noone would say no to a real strategic AI in the game.

That said - not in SHIV. I think it's safe to say the task is way beyond what can be (realistically) done for this game, especially now that it's released.

[GoldenRivet]

i think that the best way to simulate realistic shipping lanes in SH4 with minimum work would be to find the CFG file and modify how frequently contact reports are received.

I mean im getting so many contact reports that the eastern coast of Japan is almost red with little boxex. want a kill - just go near one of the boxes and you got one.

if you dropped these reports off by a good 80% it would probably be much more believable.

[Safe-Keeper]

I'd like to see this myself. I'd also like things like convoy%2

[Charlie901]

I'd like to see shipping adapt, if Im causing havoc in an area, i'd like to sea shipping begin to decrease in the area due to them being diverted along other routes. I'd like to see shipping begin to pick up escorts in hot areas. I'd like these trends to be carried over through subsequent patrols., so if Im sent right back there again next patrol, I'd see the dreadful fruits of my labor. I'd like to see shipping follow realistic and intuitive patterns. I'd like intelligent choices in hunting grounds influence my success.

I want to feel like I'm hunting, I dont want to feel as if ships are just randomly spawning in for my pleasure, as if Im a ship magnet.

I'd like to have other sub's patrols simulated so if Im sent to an area that another sub just go back from and raped it, I'd expect thin pickings or increased escorts, or increase patrols, or merchants a little bit more on guard.

I dont want to feel like the only sub in the Pacific, i dont want a war in my own personal vacuum.


Funny,

I was going to post the same thing...

After making the "MedRedux Mod" which is incorporated into GWX I really got tired of the non Dynamicness of the A.I.. You could technically alter the convoy route in the .RND Layer so that at point "X" the convoy goes on a different route each time, based on a certain % setting, but I would hardly call this Dynamic.

I really added a ton of Alternate Waypoints for all of my ship traffic in my aforementioned mod and simulated the zig-zag patterns of convoys in the same manner. However, the ships were still only reacting to a random % variable set at each waypoint no matter what happened to them. :down:

After Modding the game and seeing how scripted the A.I. is, in the .RND and .SCR Layer, it really takes the "Wonder/Fun" out of playing it.

All that would need to be done to accomplish what you have stated is for an "Event Trigger" to be set to a certain variable (ship sinking) that would create this Dynamic pattern.

For Instance:

{If Ship(s) "X" is sunk in a route/convoy than the convoy will sprout "X" amount of escorts henceforth}

or/and

{If Ship(s) "X" is sunk in a route/convoy than the convoy will switch to new alternate route "X"}.

The beauty is that you could add in an infinate amount of alternate routes and a % variable chance of escort numbers and A.I. levels. Best of all every time a ship is sunk in this alternate convoy it could change again, DYNAMICALLY Based on your actions!!!.

Something I was really hoping fro in SHIV.

It wouldn't really be too difficult to add to the .RND Layer AFAIK but it would at least simulate a sense of A.I. awareness in the strategic layer without programming the A.I. itself to be "self aware" (which is beyoind the scope of this sim I'm afraid).

It would go along way toward simulating a more believable world that changes somewhat due to your actions. :up:

[Jab_Bauer]

Well, better ai would be interesting. But do you think as a single submarine you could cause an entire shipping industry to change their entire route based on the damage you've caused?

It would be awesome if that happened, but you traveled with other subs to devastate an entire area.

[Charlie901]

Well, better ai would be interesting. But do you think as a single submarine you could cause an entire shipping industry to change their entire route based on the damage you've caused?

It would be awesome if that happened, but you traveled with other subs to devastate an entire area.


Well, it would be safe to say that if you successfully attacked and sunk several ships in a specific shipping route, the word would be out, and every allied sub from then on would be hunting those shipping lanes.

So NO a single submarine wouldn't cause it, but it would simulate the allies finding out about said lane, causing the enemy to alter its route or risk losing every ship then on, to additional allied assests, and YOUR sub when you go back on patrol. :smug:

[heartc]

I think a few lanes were indeed changed over the course of the war, since I remember reading some sub skipper commenting how he did not encounter anything on a known shipping lane and figured they might have gotten scared off. Or maybe he was just unlucky.
But I think Jab Bauer is right, too. The shipping lanes are there for a reason: To get from point A to B within the shortest time possible. They are the lifeline of certain areas, and if you'd like to change them, how would that change look like? It cannot be massive enough to make it any harder for the subs, since then it will take too long to provide the material and maybe the target port will even be out of range. Also, the longer you stay on the ocean and the more you are "running in circles" or whatever, the higher the chance to get actually caught by a sub. So, I think a constant / dynamic change of shipping lanes would not neccessarily be realistic. Maybe in some areas, as in "pass these islands on the West or East hand side", but not too much.

What I'd like to see and what they definitely did iRL was to employ often radical and random zigzag patterns in areas known to be infested by subs. Also, they tried to stay in shallow waters if at all possible, "hugging" the coast. Something the SH engine would probably have a problem with, because since SHII the AI likes to run the ships aground if they are distracted by so much as a fart. ;)

[nattydread]

Well, better ai would be interesting. But do you think as a single submarine you could cause an entire shipping industry to change their entire route based on the damage you've caused?

It would be awesome if that happened, but you traveled with other subs to devastate an entire area.


Yes, Adm O'Kane mentioned that he had noticed the last time he had been in Yellow Sea/northern East China Sea, that their activities and sinkings between mainland China and Japan caused shipping to abandon the short run straight across(Shanghai to Kyushu) and instead hug the coast through the Yellow Sea, past the Shantung Promontory(China) past Port Arthur/Dalian, around and outh along the West coast of Korea and looping around the southern tip of Korea and through the Tsushima Strait...nearly tripling their sailing distance to avoid the actions of one sub.

O'Kane used that knowledge over a year later on his own boat to corral ships in the Yellow Sea. He sunk ships west of Tsushima Strait and then started at the southern tip of Korea and followed the coastline north to west, basically allowing the merchants to run to him. He swept the whole coast line, excluding the northwestern bay behind Dalian/Port Arthur. It was a target rich environment of his own making.

They struck, the merchants adjusted, because he was a great skipper he adjusted also and got the tonnage other skippers would have missed out on...and would have complained wasnt there.


The shipping wasnt neccesarily changed permenantly, the merchants just ran an audible play when they thought a blitz was coming. When things got quiet again, they'd venture back out on the standard route.

[nattydread]

Anymore word on mods developing dynamic merchant routing based on our attacks in the area?

I need to know that something like this can be done and modders consider it an important factor, if not this game will get to repetitive real quick. I remember losing interest in SHIII th eminute I sunk a Nelson class BB...up to that point the game was so rinse and repeat I felt I had nothing else to accomplish.