just recieved SH4--first impressions

[supposedtobeworking]

Even though I was weary of my sys specs I went ahead and ordered it on amazon and it got here in three days today (with super free shipping!). Good news is that it seems to run at an acceptable playable level on my machine (which is Athlon 3200, 1gig corsair Ram ddr400, Onboard sound, geforce 6600 vanilla card). Bad news is I am not convinced this game is worth $50, which is a lot of money for me, though it is not crap or total garbage.

1) Graphics--the least important feature of a game for me, but since there is so much hype about SH4 graphics I can't help but comment. Why the fuss? It looks so gamey. I actually like SH3 graphics better, they are a little less "gamey" and seem a bit more convincing in the world and context which SH3 creates. To be sure, the water looks alright, but the crew is funky looking, kind of stubby on the short side and they dont look quite american to me.. but that is just my opinion. Control room and interiors look okay, but nothing that much improved from the interiors from SH1! besides having the crew members, I'm not impressed, but the graphics are adequate if not breathtaking or exceptionally immersive. However, I do like how you can see the periscope rise in the conning tower--that is cool. Anyways, does anyone think the graphics are too gamey or is it just me? They are definitely adequate, I was just hoping for more character.

2) Interface--I am still trying to get used to this. I am so used to being able to click on everything directly ala AOD, SH1, and SH3 too. It seems like you have to use the bottom bar alot to access commands and it takes away from the immersion for me to work through icons instead of clicking on things directly. For instance I wish I could click on stations and crew members and order them directly. Maybe minor, but it adds a lot IMO to the feel of the game.

3) Sounds--Alot from SH3 it seems like, just ported over. Not too impressed so far unfortunately and sounds are a huge part of a subsim. As already metnioned by others the lack of audible crew is dissapointing as well as when they do actually say something--the voices are so generic and stale. No character or humanity at all, they sound like AI computer crew bots. Sometimes I'll hear a guy with a really high voice which is less than convincing lets just say. I do like the little dive alarm though. I wish you could hear more activity however, like communications over the intercom and audible preparations for diving. Things like this should not be overlooked by professional subsim developers IMO...the sounds in a subsim are absolutely vital and necessary to convince the player that the world the game is simulating is real and alive. That is a huge part of what a subsim is all about I think.--it is for me and alot of others I would guess as well.

Also I wish there would be a different sound environment in the interior of the sub when surfaced and when dived. If I remember right SH1 had this a little but, but I know that AOD had it and it was great even if not delivered very realisitcally--specifically it was a change in the engine sound from deisel to electric. Since the graphics of the interior don't change when surfaced or submerged, the only thing the game can do to stimulate the sense that you are under is through sounds. the "relieve the watch" sound just came on--that's pretty neat...more like it.

--as for the rest I haven't played too long yet, but I have read all about the TDC problems and various bugs so I pretty much know what to expect and the gameplay seems to be similar to SH3 since the same engine is used. I don't regret purchasing the game yet, but as it stands I don't think it is worthy of a $50 pricetag. Maybe more like $30. Anyways, I am dissapointed but not disgruntled.. I love subsims and I could not stop myself from picking this game up....if you can stand it, then you should probably wait till it hits the bargain bin if you can wait. If you have SH3 I really don't think you're missing a whole lot new anyways besides some little ripples in the water. Of course if you're aching to get to the pacific that's another story.

[Iron Budokan]

Anyways, I am dissapointed but not disgruntled.

That's pretty much how I feel, too. I guess it comes down to this for me. I like SH4, but I don't love it. I love playing SH3.


I'm certainly not sorry I bought this new sub sim, but it hasn't grabbed my heart the way SH3 did. Dunno. I'm hoping one day it will. There's a lot of potential in this new game, I feel, and once it gets ramped up maybe then it'll grab me.

But for now I've turned away from it....:cry:

[donut]

What you said about interface,IMHO.will limit this fine game, if it can not be modded,takes to much interface between,to spot,& fire.The Green light mod.decreases confusion a lot,between whats on ,& off.:rock:

[Charlie901]

I hear you on the INTERFACE and lack of good SOUNDS...!!!

With the New tool Bar Interface I feel more like I'm playing a Microsoft Windows version of a Sub sim instead of feeling like I'm really inside a sub in a semi-believable world, giving orders to my crew as a real Captain would do! :down:

[mookiemookie]

I like the new interface. I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me as I got used to it. Everything is at my fingertips, or just a click away. Saves time!

[OS3 Slickvic]

1) Graphics - It looks so gamey. I actually like SH3 graphics better, they are a little less "gamey" and seem a bit more convincing in the world and context which SH3 creates.


Turn Off "post processing" in the video options section. :up:

[Mush Martin]

I like the old interface slightly better but I wont transpose it onto
SH4 as when it comes time later for mods for people that never
used sh3 then I will need to know how the game works for
what Id assume to be the majority of players I figure that
those that do transpose will be capable of the adjustment themselves.

I think the crew management system is better though

[TDK1044]

I think there's an understandable tendency to compare SH4 to the fully patched and modded version of SH3. That's really not a fair comparison, given that the Devs were given just under 14 months to do 18 months worth of work needed to build SH4.

If they are allowed to continue patching the game in order to get it to where it would have been with a realistic production schedule, then I think we'll have a great game in a couple of months which will be wonderfully enhanced by our superb modders. :D

[Mooncatt]

a good review and thats just how i feel about the game too, still im gonna give it a chance and keep trying to get into it just not happening atm :cry:

[Snowman999]

the "relieve the watch" sound just came on--that's pretty neat...more like it.

I agree with you about sound being vital in a sub sim. So it's ironic that this sound, which is included, is ahistoric.

Submarines don't carry boatswains. They don't use boatswain's calls (it's a "call" not a "pipe". A "pipe" is the sound made by a call.) They don't announce on the 1MC "Relieve the watch." You're responsible for relieving on time (minimum of 15 minutes before the hour) as a sign of respect for your shipmate. Watch relief is a quiet, orderly process among professionals.

In large skimmers like BBs there was much more pomp. Pipes (and bugles) were used routinely, and sailors were assumed to be idiots who couldn't tell time without help. Submarines rejected all this in favor of a different culture more suited to size, mission, and all-volunteer status.

[supposedtobeworking]

1) Graphics - It looks so gamey. I actually like SH3 graphics better, they are a little less "gamey" and seem a bit more convincing in the world and context which SH3 creates.


Turn Off "post processing" in the video options section. :up:

yes I've been fiddling with the graphics--they are starting to grow on me, but I still don't like the crew members. But that doesn't bother me quite as much as the lack of sounds to simulate the environment. Remember in AOD when you dove, there would be a sound of the bridge hatch closing shut? Even though the hatch did not open and close, I still believed it--simple, but effective use of sound effects to stimulate the senses. Combine that with tanks flooding and crew members babbling preparation mumbo jumbo (like Christmas tree reads green--or whatever is historic) and badabingbadaboom you've got a pretty convincing dive sequence. It would also be nice to hear a hatch opening or closing when moving between compartments, or even the sound of someone moving through the hatch (metalic thud of shoes hitting the floor or whatever). Maybe this sounds simple but I would contend that it makes a world of difference--sounds are everything in a subsim.

That figures that the relieve the watch sound they do put in to simulate the environment was not historic and unecessary--I still think it's kind of cool, but they could have put in so much more--maybe in future patches...as far as I am concerned all will be forgiven if the future patches include th and other obviously needed fixes, if not then maybe a mod...

[Onkel Neal]

1) Graphics - It looks so gamey. I actually like SH3 graphics better, they are a little less "gamey" and seem a bit more convincing in the world and context which SH3 creates.


Turn Off "post processing" in the video options section. :up:

yes I've been fiddling with the graphics--they are starting to grow on me, but I still don't like the crew members. But that doesn't bother me quite as much as the lack of sounds to simulate the environment. Remember in AOD when you dove, there would be a sound of the bridge hatch closing shut? Even though the hatch did not open and close, I still believed it--simple, but effective use of sound effects to stimulate the senses. Combine that with tanks flooding and crew members babbling preparation mumbo jumbo (like Christmas tree reads green--or whatever is historic) and badabingbadaboom you've got a pretty convincing dive sequence. It would also be nice to hear a hatch opening or closing when moving between compartments, or even the sound of someone moving through the hatch (metalic thud of shoes hitting the floor or whatever). Maybe this sounds simple but I would contend that it makes a world of difference--sounds are everything in a subsim.

That figures that the relieve the watch sound they do put in to simulate the environment was not historic and unecessary--I still think it's kind of cool, but they could have put in so much more--maybe in future patches...as far as I am concerned all will be forgiven if the future patches include th and other obviously needed fixes, if not then maybe a mod...

I do hear the hatch closing when I play.... :-? at least most of the time....

[supposedtobeworking]

1) Graphics - It looks so gamey. I actually like SH3 graphics better, they are a little less "gamey" and seem a bit more convincing in the world and context which SH3 creates.


Turn Off "post processing" in the video options section. :up:

yes I've been fiddling with the graphics--they are starting to grow on me, but I still don't like the crew members. But that doesn't bother me quite as much as the lack of sounds to simulate the environment. Remember in AOD when you dove, there would be a sound of the bridge hatch closing shut? Even though the hatch did not open and close, I still believed it--simple, but effective use of sound effects to stimulate the senses. Combine that with tanks flooding and crew members babbling preparation mumbo jumbo (like Christmas tree reads green--or whatever is historic) and badabingbadaboom you've got a pretty convincing dive sequence. It would also be nice to hear a hatch opening or closing when moving between compartments, or even the sound of someone moving through the hatch (metalic thud of shoes hitting the floor or whatever). Maybe this sounds simple but I would contend that it makes a world of difference--sounds are everything in a subsim.

That figures that the relieve the watch sound they do put in to simulate the environment was not historic and unecessary--I still think it's kind of cool, but they could have put in so much more--maybe in future patches...as far as I am concerned all will be forgiven if the future patches include th and other obviously needed fixes, if not then maybe a mod...

I do hear the hatch closing when I play.... :-? at least most of the time....

hmmm....that's odd because I never have heard a closing hatch...I just started using some sound mods, but I do not hear it now or never did before I used the mods. strange--it would be nice to hear those sounds...Am I the only one here who doesn't hear a closing hatch??

[BlackSpot]

No closing hatch sound here :cry:

[Hanzo]

No closing hatch sound here either! :dead:

[Front Runner]

I like the new interface. I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me as I got used to it. Everything is at my fingertips, or just a click away. Saves time!

SH4 kinda grows on you, doesn't it?

I've come to really like the graphics, once you get used to the change from SH3 they don't seem so "gamey" to me anymore. In fact at times, they are downright beautiful. Especially when something goes "BOOM", like a tanker. :up:

I agree that the interface needs work and I miss hanging out in my captain's cabin. On the other hand, the radio and the gramophone both make long trips more palatable.

The sound needs some help, there are definite omissions in that department. I miss crew feedback via sound.

Overall, though, after playing SH4 for a few weeks and going back to SH3, SH3 GXW and Dangerous Waters, I find SH4 to be in the same league and once the difficulties are ironed out it will be a superb Pacific Sub Sim. Thanks UBI and the Dev team for the hard work, but keep your nose to the grindstone to keep the REFIT coming.

Bottom line is that there is a lot that SH4 has to offer and it does take some patience to overlook some of the more glaring errors and ommissions.

I am using the Real Fleet Boat mod and Captain Midnight's CBS Radio Pack and I've been too long in the Pacific as my significant other is starting to give me the hairy eyeball.

Over and out.:rock:

[supposedtobeworking]

I do believe the game will grow on me more esp when the patches fix some bugs. With mods and patches I am now confident that this game will be on par with SH3 and a dang good subsim...though I still maintain that AOD and SH1 are in a league of their own and hope for a day when a subsim will be produced which will contain the character and labored love which those had and brought. I am still loathing figuring out the TDC mess in this game though--I am a manual targeting man as you all know. I've read about a couple or three bugs in the TDC, dealing with torpedo speed error, lack of proper dials to check the solution, and a possibly erroneous stadiameter. I am still trying to sort the mess out...can anyone summarize what the current problems with the TDC and manual targeting are, and how to work around them?

[Immacolata]

If you have SH3 I really don't think you're missing a whole lot new anyways besides some little ripples in the water. Of course if you're aching to get to the pacific that's another story.

The little ripples in the water is what I love most :) Water is so great in this game, must be computer game's finest large body of H20 ever!

I also find the campaign much more interesting as well as the geography. There's not much variety scooting about in the middle of the Atlantik. This area has much more tactical considerations with archipelagos and shallow waters, straits and such.

[tommyk]

I think there's an understandable tendency to compare SH4 to the fully patched and modded version of SH3. That's really not a fair comparison, given that the Devs were given just under 14 months to do 18 months worth of work needed to build SH4.

If they are allowed to continue patching the game in order to get it to where it would have been with a realistic production schedule, then I think we'll have a great game in a couple of months which will be wonderfully enhanced by our superb modders. :D

I find it very fair to compare. so its at least 14 month to 15 days to 10 devs. Thats quite a huge number! GWX is build on SH3 and so is SH4 but the devs had all their tools and grown knowledge from SH3! If you cannot do it in such an amount of time then you are doing something very wrong! I believe there will be not more than 4 patches allowed from ubi...

[Hartmann]

I thing that they released an unfinished game, more a beta than a 1.0 version.

i was very surprised when i found files from sh3 and references to a german radars like fumo, naxos, type XXI etc in the configuration files of sh4.
perhaps they rushed in the release with not time to erase or clean old files , fix important bugs and optimize the engine.

The game have a lot of potential but there are a lot of work to done by devs and modders.

[supposedtobeworking]

If you have SH3 I really don't think you're missing a whole lot new anyways besides some little ripples in the water. Of course if you're aching to get to the pacific that's another story.

The little ripples in the water is what I love most :) Water is so great in this game, must be computer game's finest large body of H20 ever!

I also find the campaign much more interesting as well as the geography. There's not much variety scooting about in the middle of the Atlantik. This area has much more tactical considerations with archipelagos and shallow waters, straits and such.

That's true. I forgot about the added missions too like photo recon and rescue and drop off people. I definitely don't consider the game to be a worthless production, but I am still dreaming and hoping for a subsim which is updated with modern features yet still has the character and persuasive execution which AOD and SH1 had. Hasn't happened yet IMO. but it is pretty good and while I still wish it was cheaper, I'm glad I picked it up...now back to fiddling with that stinking TDC....

[Jungman]

No closing hatch sound here either! :dead:

None hear. :down:

Also no sound from damage such as steam, pipe water burst. Nothing.

Really 'sucks the air out of immersion.

I just added in the sound of the hatch closing, water tank filling in to the dive sequence klaxon to help out. If it is not fixed, then I can upload this as a mod. Sounds cool.