[REL] JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2

[Krupp]

New version of JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.3 available here: ( you don't need earlier versions.)

http://www.speedyshare.com/769273574.html (copy and paste the link, for some reason it doesen't go straight to speedyshare)


This mod will give you a working stadimeter data for each japanese ship. You no longer need to find an odd targeting point for your stadimeter, just aim at the masthead. There is a problem changing to imperial-scale, game doesen't convert meters to yards, at least this has been found when using manual targeting. That is a game "feature", not caused by this mod. Without these fixed dimensions, you'll get incorrect ranges, that varies on each ship, depending how incorrect the original value was.

All merchants and warships have been tested and doublechecked. Ranges were within +-30 meters when measured at the range of 1000 meters. Corrections made to heavy cruisers Maya and Takao (mast height shortened 3 meters).




It includes new cfg and sim files for jap ships. Corrections were made to all dimensions, speed and masses.

================================================== =====================================

Now, that I'm absolutely convinced myself with the tests. I can claim, that the game has serious errors in ship dimension data. Is it intentional or not, I can't say.

Example:

I made a shooting range with the mission editor and put ships at 1000 meter distance with 90 AOB and 0 speed. Submarine wasn't moving either.

Following ships have been tested with the original values (in data/sea/ship/cfg) and with those values that can be found from sh4 website and in printed manuals ( lets call them "Real".

Distance to target at 1000 meters, measured with the stadimeter to the mast top

Ship-----game value ----- "Real "value

Taiyo ----343m -----------1000m
Asashio---772m -----------993m
Akita------765m------------1001m


You can see yourself, that the values we currently have in the game, give us wrong firing data!

saying, no, the game values are correct, is not enough to overturn what I have found. Not anymore, cos I have tested it in the game. There are many more ships with wrong data. But these three are enough to proven my point.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have the sonar man bounce a ping off my target and compare it to my stad readings. It is usually about 100 feet off. Now I have to account for what I see as the exact top of the mast when using the stad. There will be some skewed information from my stad reading. I believe the sonar man is more correct then my stad meter. We are close though. Have your sonarman bounce a ping off under the same conditions and see what he has.

Sometimes I think this game is still in meters but visual just switched to feet.

[Krupp]

I don't understand how they are comparable between eachother. The pinged distance and the one that is measured using trigonometry. Why shouldn't your sonar man give you approximataly right distance to the target hence he's not using the mast height as a reference. The mast height could still be anything and it wouldn't effect the pinging cos the ship would be at that 1000 meter distance, but looking it with the periscope stadimeter and a wrong mast height would give you erronous firing data.

And like said before in another topic, not all ships have faulty data, thus they show you the (somewhat) right distance. Some ships have signifigant error in their mast height.

[Krupp]

So, I went and tested the ranges by pinging. I had four ships, ranges 1200m, 1000m, 1000m and 1800 meters, respectively.

All ranges given by the sonar correlated exactly with the actual range (put up in the mission editor) and the range measured with the stadimeter.

[Deep Six]

So I take it until this bug is ironed out were Fubar'd beyond all recognition..???

No wonder it'd a lottery trying to hit something...I'm TRYING to learn MANUAL TDC but I'm all over the place....Maybe now i know why...


Deep Six

[Krupp]

So I take it until this bug is ironed out were Fubar'd beyond all recognition..???

No wonder it'd a lottery trying to hit something...I'm TRYING to learn MANUAL TDC but I'm all over the place....Maybe now i know why...


Deep Six

No, we are not fraked here nor is this a bug or a clumsy way to simulate ****ty results. You can edit those yourself like I did (files can be edited with the notepad). I could post my fixed cfg-files to you (pm me your email adress). But, this haven't earned any approval here, so think again. I am totally satisfied with the new ship dimensions, that gives me correct firing data. And those dimensions are offered us by the dev's, they are not my inventions.


files can be found in: data/sea/ship/cfg (open with notepad) and if you make any changes, remember those backups first.

MODIFICATIONS (original values within brackets): Merchant ship value list is originally posted by GrayOctober, I added the warships.

__________________________
NKMCS_Akita

Displacement=4070 (3936)
Mast=29.2 (22.25)

__________________________
NKMSS_Biyo

Length=121.9 (120)
Width=16.1 (15)
Draft=7.9 (7.5)

__________________________
NOM_Buzyun

Width=15.5 (15)
Mast=29.7 (30)
Draft=8.7 (7.5)

__________________________
NPL_Conte_Verde

Mast=42.5 (35)

__________________________
NKLSS_Hakusika

Length=135.6 (120)
Width=17.7 (15)
Mast=29.5 (30)
Draft=8.6 (7.5)

__________________________
NOS_Haruna

*NOTHING MODIFIED*

__________________________
NKMCS_Heito

Mast=26.2 (30)

__________________________
NPL_Horai

Mast=39.7 (33.5)

__________________________
NKSSS_Kasagisan

MaxSpeed=12 (12.5)
Mast=26.9 (22.56)

__________________________
NKMSS_Kinposan

Length=101.2 (107)
Mast=27.5 (23.77)

__________________________
NPL_Kiturin

Length=130.1 (135.94)
Mast=34 (31.7)

__________________________
NKLCS_Nagara

Length=143.2 (120)
Width=18.9 (15)
Mast=36.5 (30)
Draft=8.3 (7.5)
Displacement=7154 (7145)

__________________________
NOL_Nippon

MaxSpeed=20 (12)
Length=159.7 (120)
Width=19.8 (15)
Mast=28.9 (30)
Draft=9 (7.5)
Displacement=9974 (10000)

__________________________
NKSCS_Taihosan

Mast=22.6 (24)

__________________________
NPS_Tyohei

Mast=22.5 (27.4)
Displacement=1713 (1718)

__________________________
NKMCS_Zinbu

Length=121.9 (120)
Width=14.6 (14)
Mast=28.4 (24)
_____________________________________________



AND WARSHIPS
-----------------------------
Yamato
Displacement: 63200 tons
Lentght: 263.2 meters
Width: 38.9 meters (39)
Height: 43.5 meters (44)
Draft 10.9 meters (10)
------------------------------
Fuso
D: 34300
L: 212.7 (212)
W: 30.8 (30.8)
H: 50.6 (50)
D: 9.4 (9.7)
-------------------------------
Kongo
D: 32000
L: 225
W: 31.7 (30.8)
H: 43 (42)
D: 9.8 (9.4)
------------------------------
Ise
D: 31250 (33800)
L: 205.5 (220)
W: 28.6 31.6)
H: 50.3 (50)
D: 9.9 (9.5)
--------------------------------
Ise (hybrid)
D: 33800
L: 220
W: 31.6
H: 50.1 (50)
D: 9.5
---------------------------------
Taiho
D: 35000
L: 253.7
W: 27.8
H: 45.3 (46)
D: 9.5
----------------------------------
Shokaku
D: 28000 (hm, this should be closer to 20000 tons)
L: 250
W: 25.9 (26)
H: 31.4 (29.7)
D: 8.6 (8.7)
---------------------------------
Taiyo
D: 17830
L: 180.1
W: 22.5
H:43.9 (16) <----------------------------------!!! wtf?
D:7.5
-----------------------------------
Hiryu
D: 16000
L: 223.3
W: 21.3
H: 35.2 (20) <------------------------------!!! also, wtf?
D: 7.5
-------------------------------------
Akitsu Maru-Aircraft carrier
D: 11800
L: 143.7
W: 19.5
H: 35.2 (30)
D: 7.8
-------------------------------------
Takao-Heavy Cruiser
D: 9850 (15870)
L: 204.5 (204)
W: 19 (23)
H: 36.3 (36.5)
D: 5.1 (6.3)
--------------------------------
Maya- Heavy cruiser
D: 9850
L: 204.5
W: 19
H: 36.3
D: 5.1
----------------------------------
Mogami-heavy cruiser
D:9500
L: 200
W:20.5
H: 34.6 (34)
D: 4.4
------------------------------------
Furutaka-heavy cruiser
D: 7100
L: 188
W: 11.9
H: 31.9 (23)
D: 4.5
-----------------------------------------
Agano-Light cruiser
D: 6652
L: 174.5
W: 15.2 (15)
H: 25.2 (30)
D: 5.6
---------------------------------------
Naka-light cruiser
D: 5195 (5113)
L: 163
W: 14.2 (14)
H: 31.8 (35.6)
D: 4.6 (4.5)
----------------------------------------
Kuma-light cruiser
D: 5100
L: 163
W: 14.2 (14)
H: 35.6
D: 4.6 (4.4)
------------------------------------------
Akizuki-destroyer
D: 2701
L: 134
W: 11.6
H: 22.8 (23)
D: 4.1
----------------------------------------
Fubuki-destroyer
D: 2260 (1680)
L: 118.5
W: 10.4 (10.3)
H: 21.1 (21)
D: 3.2
------------------------------------
Asashio-destroyer
D: 1961 (2370)
L: 118.3
W: 10.4 (10.3)
H: 27 (21)
D: 3.6 (3.2)
-------------------------------------------
Shiratsuyu-destroyer
D: 1685
L: 108
W: 9.9
H: 21.9 (22)
D:3.5
----------------------------------------
Mutsuki-destroyer
D: 1313 (1772)
L: 102.4 (103.3)
W: 9.1
H: 23.6 (21)
D: 4.6 (3)
------------------------------------------
Minekaze-destroyer
D: 1215
L: 102.5 (102.6)
W: 8.9 (9.1)
H: 21.3 (21)
D: 2.9
-----------------------------------
No.13 Class - minesweeper
D: 511 (500)
L: 72.1 (70)
W: 7.6 (9.1)
H: 25.5 (21)
D: 1.85 (2.9)
--------------------------------
Okinoshima - minelayer
D: 4400
L: 123.4
W: 15.6
H: 28.1 (21)
D: 5
---------------------------------
Chitose-seaplane tender
D: 11200 (9000)
L: 192.5
W: 20.8
H: 31.8 (16)
D: 7.5
-------------------------------
Atami-gunboat
D:170
L: 45.3
W: 6.3
H: 19.8
D: 1.4
------------------------------------
Hira-gunboat
D:305
L: 56
W: 8.5
H: 28
D: 1.2
---------------------------------

[cmdrk]

If the range findings were reversed, I would say it was intentional. I do believe in RL some ships masts were cut down to confuse torpedo firing solutions. But, that would increase the range.

Have you noticed anything wrong concerning ship dimensions found in the files?

I was wondering if the LOA is correct. I want to use it to determine speed.

edit: I was writing during your last post. It answers my question. Thanks.

[LuisCamoes]

I thank you m8

[Ducimus]

I have to ask....

So when's the mod being released? :88)

[Krupp]

I could wrap it up for a download in couple hours. I don't remember how to make it downloadable, but I'll find out.

[yllekm]

easy - go to www.speedyshare.com (http://www.speedyshare.com) and click on "upload" (no need to register for small files).

[Krupp]

Update:


I went through all (japanese ship) cfg files and they should be ok now. Then I opened the sim files with the tweaker program, and noticed, that they didn't match with the cfg files, so I edited the sim files too. From the warships I corrected the mass and speeds, speed only for merchants. The reason why I didn't edit the merchant masses is that I presume that with the heavier mass than the actual ship, they simulate the weight of the cargo. Tweaker makes backup files of sim files, these had to be removed so the edited part can take effect. This is how it was with the sh3 if I remember correctly.

Now I have a packet, that includes corrected cfg- and sim-files. I installed it with the JSGME and took few single missions and everything seemed to work ok.

Edit: thanks yllekm, I'll try speedyshare.

[Krupp]

edit: there seem to be somekind of issue with the simfiles, draughtsubmerged thingie needs to be checked.

edit:2 ---> there really is an issue with the ship sim-files. The ship drafts are incorrect (in original files and in these) but IMO it doesen't effect your use with this mod. At least you'll have corrected range data for TDC, which you don't have with the original files. But wether or not you'll be using this mod, you'll get biased results with the magnetic torpedoes.

Ok, here it is. It's packed with rar.

JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.0:

http://www.speedyshare.com/485726177.html

It is your own responsibility if you use this mod.

[nimitstexan]

So just so I'm clear, you have changed the mast height numbers to match their historical values, not necessarily the 3D model values, correct?

[Krupp]

So just so I'm clear, you have changed the mast height numbers to match their historical values, not necessarily the 3D model values, correct?

I have changed the dimensions to those that sh4 developer's offer us in their printed recognition manual.

[yllekm]

Krupp,

Can you post all of the printed recogntion manual dimensions for the Japanese merchant vessels? I want to add the published lengths and widths to my Japan Recognition Manual (see http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109868).

All of the military vessels lengths and widths are here but some of the merchant data is not (only those that GrayOctober found were different were posted).

For consistency, can you also provide the dimensions of the small coastal vessels?

Metric is okay - I will convert to imperial. Will probably also do a metric version og my recog manual.

p.s. I have nothing to go by except the in game recog manual because I only have the Canadian version (the US version is coming in the mail from the Ubisoft store but will probably take several weeks - they only ship to Canada via snail mail).

[Krupp]

Krupp,

Can you post all of the printed recogntion manual dimensions for the Japanese merchant vessels? I want to add the published lengths and widths to my Japan Recognition Manual (see http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109868) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109868%29).

All of the military vessels lengths and widths are here but some of the merchant data is not (only those that GrayOctober found were different were posted).

For consistency, can you also provide the dimensions of the small coastal vessels?

Metric is okay - I will convert to imperial. Will probably also do a metric version og my recog manual.

p.s. I have nothing to go by except the in game recog manual because I only have the Canadian version (the US version is coming in the mail from the Ubisoft store but will probably take several weeks - they only ship to Canada via snail mail).

Sure, I'll do that, but I can't do that today anymore. It will be around tomorrow morning when I can post the merchant dimensions. Is it ok? I have also downloaded your rec manuals, nice work!

[Krupp]

Cancel the previous, I could fill up the merchant lines in that post above. Hold on, I'm working on it right now...

[Krupp]

I noticed that the sh4 website is up, you can have the merchants from here:

http://silenthunter4.uk.ubi.com/ships.php

[GreyOctober]

Damn Krupp you beat me to it mate! And 1000th times better. Thank you! cant find the adequate hug smiley but ...:up: :up:

Cheers!
Grey

[Jungman]

edit: there seem to be somekind of issue with the simfiles, draughtsubmerged thingie needs to be checked.

edit:2 ---> there really is an issue with the ship sim-files. The ship drafts are incorrect (in original files and in these) but IMO it doesen't effect your use with this mod. At least you'll have corrected range data for TDC, which you don't have with the original files. But wether or not you'll be using this mod, you'll get biased results with the magnetic torpedoes.

Ok, here it is. It's packed with rar.

JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.0:

http://www.speedyshare.com/485726177.html

It is your own responsibility if you use this mod.


I noticed that also for the draft. I posted under a problem with shooting torps under the draft useing a contact or magnetic. Does the magnetic really work just under the hull.

Print data showed with the Training mission Magomi Heavy Cruiser draft 4.4 meter or 14.3 feet. In .sim file it is 10.5. If you set that to zero, the ship in game will float exactly on top of the water, so it works in game. It determines how low in the water the ship will sit.

For a torpedo to miss, I had to set for deeper than 28 feet, else it hit the bottom of the keel. So is the what gives? is 10.5 in meters ~ 34 feet??

[Krupp]

I tested 16 ships yesterday (14 warships + 2 merchants), trying to get the "perfect" depth for magnetic torpedoes and to find out the meaning of sim-file depth.

The sim-file value (draughtsubmerged) does not every time mean, that if the value is 10, the ship would actually swim that deep in the game i.e. 10 meters. The merchant ship Kasagisan Maru swims ok, even her sim value is only 1.

For example, I could have nice hits with the torpedo depth of 7 meters, even, when the sim-value for that ship gave me the draughtsubmerged value of 14. Torpedo depth 10 was ok when the sim-value was 25. And so on.

I'll get the rest of those japanese ships test done today.

[Gizzmoe]

I´ve updated the thread title, added the download link to the first post and the mod to the list.

[Krupp]

I´ve updated the thread title, added the download link to the first post and the mod to the list.

Thank you.

[raymond6751]

From the sounds of your research, it seems you used the editor for some of it.

I haven't been able to get a mission to load made there. Where did you save your test mission so that it could be loaded into the game?

I'm sure there are thousands who would love to know...:yep:

[Krupp]

From the sounds of your research, it seems you used the editor for some of it.

I haven't been able to get a mission to load made there. Where did you save your test mission so that it could be loaded into the game?

I'm sure there are thousands who would love to know...:yep:

Well, I managed to do it...via detour or something. I wanted to add single ships, but I couldn't find a way, so I had to add "groups" that includes only 1 ship.


1. open editor
2.opened submarine school torpedomission (mogami scenario)
3. saved it with a new name TO quickmissions folder
4. then i moved mogami out of the way (20 km) and deleted (activate and press delete button) the flying boat
5.I wanted to add new ships, so I right clicked on the map and added random generated group, which I renamed as the ship Im about to blow up. Then picked the country and the ship from the list I planned and added + accepted.

Now you should have a yellow squere on the map, activate it (white borders comes out) and left click, choose the group properties. THere you can edit speeds, headings, waypoints etc. Remember to put value 1 (instead of the 10000) to max group instances line.

save and exit

Start up the game ,go to quick mission and pick up the torpedo training mission from the bottom of the list.

If you'r FPS drop to 1, you propably have forgotten to change the "max group instances" from original 10000 to 1.

I hope you got it working cos I'm writing this from the memory...

If you have problem's, let me know.

[E.Hartmann]

Could some of the problem be that the game is a mix of meters and feet and is confusing itself really bad with all the bad data floating around. A real sloppy game as far as coding and attentition to details if you ask me. Shame on the beta testers for allowing this to happen as well. If the beta testers claimed again and again that stuff was broken but was overruled by UBI to get product to shelves then shame on them.

[GuillermoZS]

Thank you man!!

I really had troubles estimating distance with the periscope before... missed a lot of targets. I thought I was doing something wrong... much apreciated :up:

[Krupp]

You're welcome, good to hear if it helped.

[Jungman]

Hello Krupp!

I did some in game testing for length. Example the training mission Mogami Heavy Cruiser at 9 knots.

I timed the ship to pass by the periscope line from bow to stern and I can say for at least that one the 3D in game model length is indeed the same as what you listed in your great Dimension Mod Fix! :cool: 200 meters = 654 feet. That is the same as my old data manual from Task Force 1942 (it says 650) feet. At 9 knots it took about 43 seconds to pass by.

So I think the lengths may be correct, but it would be nice to check more of them using the mission editor to make sure. Have you done this, or is that something I could do for you?

[Krupp]

Hello Krupp!

I did some in game testing for length. Example the training mission Mogami Heavy Cruiser at 9 knots.

I timed the ship to pass by the periscope line from bow to stern and I can say for at least that one the 3D in game model length is indeed the same as what you listed in your great Dimension Mod Fix! :cool: 200 meters = 654 feet. That is the same as my old data manual from Task Force 1942 (it says 650) feet. At 9 knots it took about 43 seconds to pass by.

So I think the lengths may be correct, but it would be nice to check more of them using the mission editor to make sure. Have you done this, or is that something I could do for you?

I was planning to do the lengt measurement thingie (and actually started it few days ago), but unfortunetily I had to postpone it due RL duties. Please, feel free to do the length check. That would be great and I'm (we all are) really looking forward to see the results. That's a quite arduous job ahead.

[NefariousKoel]

This has been needed.

I never got close to a matching range using the stadimeter unless I actually brought the top image down into the bottom one.

Also noticed that not all the numbers from the recognition manual matched up in-game (such as certain merchant max speeds).

[Kataki]

Bump ^

Was the correct information for merchant ships included in the download? If obviously using the standimeter wrong. In most cases I have to bring the top image slightly on top of the bottom one, even then its a crap shoot.

<3 whoever fixes these issues as manual TDC is very hard... especially with incorrect/faulty info.

[Charos]

Many heads are better than one.

This thread seems directly related to my findings - which I made a few weeks ago but held off going public until now.

See thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111924

My findings indicate that the general problem lies in the periscope and TBT fields of view and the associated graticule markers which again are assumed to be correct.

The stadiometer in the game no doubt simply reads off a value from where it is placed on screen and this location is assigned a predetermined angular value.

Now if this angular value is incorrect all TDC readings will be wrong.

The FOV is definately wrong and it seems clear to me its angular field of view
which is divided evenly by the graticule markers are not assigned correct angular values when read by the stadiomter in game.

[Kataki]

Man all this makes my head hurt, its hard enough learning to use all these techniques to use the manual TDC correctly with out seemingly every aspect having something wrong with it. So far Ive heard theres something wrong with the mast heights in game, something wrong with the periscope FOV, something wrong with position keeper, theres something wrong with targeting port side targets etc etc..

Now I haven't tested these theories myself but I hope the developers are at least looking into this. (if you are curious as to where I heard these.. look here> http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108128 )

[Krupp]

@ Kataki

Your not the only one with the bursting temple vains. But Now that they are going to fix the torp speed and fiddle with the TDC (and the mast heights are right, at least with the dimension fix), I think it's enough for improving accuracy.

Generally speaking, I did a mistake in sh3, when I tried to solve attacks too technically. Calculating everything and concentrated in secondary instead of focusing sinking that target. The firing data information doesen't need to be 100% accurate with 3 decimals. Focusing on a good approach to get into a decent firing position is enough, from there you can gather all the information you need to score hits. With the naked eye. That way the attacks go much more smoothly, without pauses and you can enjoy what you see, (immersion isn't interrupted) instead of keeping all the steam under your propeller hat.

[NefariousKoel]

After trying this mod, I'm still getting incorrect ranges using the Stadimeter.

I still must bring the waterline a ways down the masts. Hopefully my problem is something to do with the resolution stretch and will be fixed in 1.2.

Thanks for fixing some other details, though. They're not as noticeable but there nonetheless.

[Krupp]

Sorry to hear that it ain't working for you. Hard to tell quickly what is causing it. Can you give any details? What ship it was and what kind of numbers you got. How did you check the range to find out that stadimeter was wrong? How much the difference was?

I tested all japanese ships with the mission editor and the range variation was +/- 20 meters (out of 1000 meter range). That should be well enough for the range part in the firing data.

[Krupp]

New version available for patch 1.2, download link in the first post.

[Barkhorn1x]

So what effect - if any - does this mod have if you use Imperial measurments???

Thanks.

[Krupp]

So what effect - if any - does this mod have if you use Imperial measurments???

Thanks.


Well, if it has correct metric ships dimensions, wild quess is that then the game can convert them to correct imperial dimensions.

[Barkhorn1x]

So what effect - if any - does this mod have if you use Imperial measurments???

Thanks.


Well, if it has correct metric ships dimensions, wild quess is that then the game can convert them to correct imperial dimensions.

One would hope!! :yep:

Thanks.

[Krupp]

Yes, hopefully so. I've been using this mod only with imperial measures and (when attacking) with the "perfect" firing solution, the fishes have found their marks on the spot. Even from the ranges beyond 3000 yards, which is pretty long shot. Now it's even better cos we can use the fast setting for torpedoes.

[Barkhorn1x]

Thanks for the info. Sounds great. I am installing tonight.

[Hitman]

I suppose the answer is yes, but could someone confirm if the Ship Dimension Fix 1.0 works with SH4 1.2?

Thanks:up:

[Krupp]

I suppose the answer is yes, but could someone confirm if the Ship Dimension Fix 1.0 works with SH4 1.2?

Thanks:up:

You can download the new version (1.2) from the link in the first post.

I've tested it with few single missions and in submarine school and currently on my way of Shikoku island in Empire waters. So far it works. The only change was the deleting of 2DCompartment lines from the cfg-files. I did that too, reason for deleting them is unknown to me. Sim-files were untouched.

I tried to change the headline for this topic to show a new version release, but I don't know how to change it. That's why it says 1.0 version.

[t0maz]

GREAT! Many thanks for quick port to version 1.2 :rock:

[Jace11]

Thanks Krupp good work...

Any ideas on the effect of removing the compartment data...?

I wonder whether ships are easier to sink now...

[Krupp]

Thanks Krupp good work...

Any ideas on the effect of removing the compartment data...?

I wonder whether ships are easier to sink now...

It's hard to tell whether or not ships are easier to sink. Some ships go down with a single hit, while others can take more hits (even the same class), or are just more or less damaged. I have this feeling that sinking and damage are better now, but it just could be plasebo effect.

I have no complains so far for the damage modelling in this new patch. Exept one, I haven't seen any 3D damages in Nippon Maru tankers after been hit in the subschool convoy attack. None of that I hit, had any visible damages (they still sink tho).

What comes to 2Dcompartment thingie, If I recall correctly, Shokaku carrier didn't have originally those lines in her cfg-file, unlike the other ships. Now none of them have any 2dcompartmen lines. I haven't looked into the damage part at all, because there are really good modders that have experience in this area.

[OS1Mac]

Thanks for this great mod, Krupp! Your mod helped to greatly improve my manual targetting accuracy. :up:

[Krupp]

Good to hear OS1Mac, it really does improve the targetting. For some ships more and some ships less, since there was quite a big variation in wrong heights etc.

[NefariousKoel]

Sorry to hear that it ain't working for you. Hard to tell quickly what is causing it. Can you give any details? What ship it was and what kind of numbers you got. How did you check the range to find out that stadimeter was wrong? How much the difference was?

I tested all japanese ships with the mission editor and the range variation was +/- 20 meters (out of 1000 meter range). That should be well enough for the range part in the firing data.

Not your fault Krupp. From what I've seen, the Stadi issue has only affected those using a 5:4 display ratio on 1280x1024. Or maybe just a 5:4 ratio.

Thanks for the goodies, though. :up:

[Krupp]

Yes, it could be your resolution. I can't find other reason why it doesen't work for you. I use 1440 x 900.

Other thing. I just tested today all japanese merchant ships with the latest Dimension Fix 1.2, and the ranges measured with the stadimeter at the range of 1000 meters, were ok. Variation in range was only +- 30 meters. Error is 10 meters larger than my earlier tests, but that is marginal user error with the crosshair and stadimeter line. War ships should be tested later today.

[Krupp]

New version available here: (hotfix)

JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2b for patch 1.2

http://www.speedyshare.com/918562893.html


All japanese merchants and warships have been tested yesterday and today. Ranges were within +-30 meters when measured at the range of 1000 meters. Corrections made to heavy cruisers Maya and Takao (mast height shortened 3 meters, that's the reason for hotfix). Most important is that now you can rely that the mastheads are the stadimeter aiming points. Not some obscure part of the ship.

[melin71]

great mod, thx...i finaly get right range.:up:

[tater]

Does the draft number in the cfg determine how low the model sits in the water?

The value used in the Minesweeper (W-13 Class) is wrong by almost a meter (it's set the same as a bunch of DDs at 2.93m instead of the ~2m it should be). None the less, the model in game has the screws out of the water halfway!

[NefariousKoel]

Though I'm not in port, I'll load it up and give it a go. These config files should be loaded fresh at game-start (I hope).

:rock:

[Krupp]

Does the draft number in the cfg determine how low the model sits in the water?

The value used in the Minesweeper (W-13 Class) is wrong by almost a meter (it's set the same as a bunch of DDs at 2.93m instead of the ~2m it should be). None the less, the model in game has the screws out of the water halfway!

This has been found to be problem. So far I haven't been able to find out any logig in the files to fix them. None that I would have had too much time available.

How low the model swims in the water is not changed via cfg-files. You need to change the draughtsubmerged-value in the sim-files. And there lies the problem: the number you put in, is not directly the depth the ship swims. For example, jap merchant Kasagisan Maru's value is only 1, still she swims normally looking in the water, not only 1 meter deep. For some ships the value seems to be very logical.

The cfg-file draught values are the ones, like the other dimension data, from the rec manual. Using these values, we can have the correct ship heights for the better firing data (range). Why it doesen't fix the draught data for the magnetic torpedo shots, I cant' tell. These modded values are incorrect (for the draught) for some ships, so were the original files also. But I'd say it's a good bargain now, when we at least can have correct range data. It would be interesting to find out solution for all this, but like I said, I have too little time to start fiddling with these figures.

Anyways, If you change that minesweeper draught value in the cfg-file, all it should do is that you'll see a different value in the ingame recognition book.

[Krupp]

Though I'm not in port, I'll load it up and give it a go. These config files should be loaded fresh at game-start (I hope).

:rock:
I have been changing these files (cfg and sim) back and forth and haven't found any problems. But to be sure, it wouldn't hurt to play safe and load them before new patrol.

[Krupp]

Uh, I forgot to tell that this new version (1.2b) includes all the data, so you don't need earlier versions.

[Krupp]

Here's some news that some may receive with satisfaction.

1. Using the stadimeter with Imperial scale, gives you the range in meters, NOT in yards. I've never thought this possibility, even though some people have assumed in some posts. And all my tests have been made using only metric-scale cos it's a lot easier to comprehend etc. than imperial scale.

2. When surfaced and asking the range from your watch officer, he gives you a range too short. About 10% too short.


With the JP Ship Dimension Fix:

Imperial:(at the range of 1094 yards or 1000m, Nagara Maru)

Attack---Observation---WO
989-------998----------2953(feet), should be 3280 feet)

Metric: (at the range of 1000 meters, Nagara Maru)

Attack---Observation---WO
989-------1003--------900(meters), should be 1000 meters

So, looking these values, we see that changing the scale to Imperial, doesen't take effect in the periscope stadimeter values, only metric scale gives us the right distance.

But, the WO's range is wrong anyway by 10 %, with both, imperial and metric scale.

:shifty:

Edit:

Same test with the original files (without JP Ship Dimension FIX)

Imperial:(at the range of 1094 yards or 1000m, Nagara Maru)

Attack---Observation---WO
813-------816----------2953(feet), should be 3280 feet

Metric: (at the range of 1000 meters, Nagara Maru)

Attack---Observation---WO
813-------812--------900(meters), should be 1000 meters

Here we can see, that there is something wrong with the formulas ( game doesen't convert the stadimeter from metric to imperial yards) and that the metric ranges really are biased in the original form. Good thing is, that even though the Ship Dimension Fix mod doesen't help Imperial-scale users (obviously, how could it magigally convert the meters to yards correctly), it fixes the range for metric-scale users. Odd thing is, that I have been using the imperial scale in my careers and have scored good hits, another thing is that I never use WO ranges, so I missed finding the range too short.

[NefariousKoel]

Nice work Krupp. Did you make a bug post about this for the Devs?

I guess I'm seeing shorter ranges due to using Imperial. :cry: Though I've that your mod has made some difference as to how far it's off so :up:.

Luckily I haven't been making too many long distance shots so the range doesn't matter too horribly in getting hits.

[jmr]

Here's some news that some may receive with satisfaction.

1. Using the stadimeter with Imperial scale, gives you the range in meters, NOT in yards. I've never thought this possibility, even though some people have assumed in some posts. And all my tests have been made using only metric-scale cos it's a lot easier to comprehend etc. than imperial scale.


Yup I noticed the same thing while doing tests on the Mogami in the torpedo training mission. Guess I'll be sticking with metric for the time being.

[tater]

Does changing the draft in the ship's cfg change how it sits in the water, or is that in a hex file?

[Krupp]

Does changing the draft in the ship's cfg change how it sits in the water, or is that in a hex file?

You need to change the sim file for that. Line is "draughtsubmerged". But if you change that, it will change the height of the ship too. Also, for example, if you have a value 7, it doesen't mean that the ship is actually swimming 7 meters deep...

[Krupp]

Did you make a bug post about this for the Devs?



No, I believe they are aware of it. But it wouldn't hurt to let them know. I tried to register in their bug-site, but it didn't work :hmm:

[NefariousKoel]

Did you make a bug post about this for the Devs?


No, I believe they are aware of it. But it wouldn't hurt to let them know. I tried to register in their bug-site, but it didn't work :hmm:

I think they check Subsim often enough to notice it. There's been a few different bug threads on the Stadimeter range issue so I'm sure they know by now.

[LukeFF]

Excellent mod, Krupp. I'm going to give this one a try later on. I was very much incensed that somehow my firing solutions weren't working right, even though I've been within firing range and had good positioning and firing data pretty much every time.

Now, let's just hope the devs officially fix all these mesurement problems once and for all in 1.3. This is just ridiculous that this problem even exists in the first place.

[maerean_m]

Please have a look at http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=508996&postcount=19 for the workaround for using the stadimeter with imperial measurement units.

[ATR-42]

So what effect - if any - does this mod have if you use Imperial measurments???
Well, if it has correct metric ships dimensions, wild quess is that then the game can convert them to correct imperial dimensions.
One would hope!!


Id just like to clarify on this a little. For those of us running Imperial units, will this mod HELP? or is it just fixing something that cant be fixed anyways?

does anyone have any experience running this mod with imperial units and have seen any differences in targeting solution accuracy?

[Donner]

Id just like to clarify on this a little. For those of us running Imperial units, will this mod HELP? or is it just fixing something that cant be fixed anyways?

If using metric, this mod helps quite a bit.

This will not help if using Imperial measurements. The game does not make the proper conversions. :damn:

[Ducimus]

It *seemed* like it helped a *LITTLE* bit with imperial measurements, but it could have been just variences in my stadimeter use. I do seem to get my range closer after using this mod. Never perfect, but a little better. Could be my imagination though. Stare at something long enough, you start seeing what you want to see.

[joea]

Here's some news that some may receive with satisfaction.

1. Using the stadimeter with Imperial scale, gives you the range in meters, NOT in yards. I've never thought this possibility, even though some people have assumed in some posts. And all my tests have been made using only metric-scale cos it's a lot easier to comprehend etc. than imperial scale.

Yup I noticed the same thing while doing tests on the Mogami in the torpedo training mission. Guess I'll be sticking with metric for the time being.

You should not have to!!!! Imagine if someone made a u-boat sim based on imperial that did not convert properly! (Or gave the choice to use imperial) :damn:

[Krupp]

Yes, all changes happened in my imagination after staring the files and data and tests too long. and I did put up this all for a big hoax. Shame on me.:88)

[Ducimus]

For clarificaiton: i was referring to Krupps mod helping in Imperial measuremnts. I wasnt referring to the validity of Krupps mod itself. His mod is awesome. I just take my own observations with a grain of salt since it's been stated the stadimeter doesnt convert measurements properly.

[messenger3]

New version available here: (hotfix)

JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2b for patch 1.2

http://www.speedyshare.com/918562893.html


All japanese merchants and warships have been tested yesterday and today. Ranges were within +-30 meters when measured at the range of 1000 meters. Corrections made to heavy cruisers Maya and Takao (mast height shortened 3 meters, that's the reason for hotfix). Most important is that now you can rely that the mastheads are the stadimeter aiming points. Not some obscure part of the ship.

Hey, i would love to try your mod,but the link take me to some photographer porfolio page with funny music at the backround??????:o Where am i suppose to get it from???
THX

[Krupp]

Hmm :hmm:I just tried the link and it worked fine. Strange:-?

If that link refuses to work for you, PM me your email adress and I'll send you the packet.

[Krupp]

Here's a new DL-link, old was biased somehow.


http://www.speedyshare.com/581621571.html

[spyridon]

I can't get the file too.


If I change the values by myself will it be the same?

[Krupp]

I can't get the file too.


If I change the values by myself will it be the same?

The new link doesen't work either?

I have no idea what's wrong with the links. I can download the mod and never had any problems with the speedyshare (with the earlier links or this new one).


What should I do about it?

[spyridon]

Oh, it seems it works now!
Yes, I am able to download it now!:D :D :D

[Krupp]

Good to hear.

[FLank_Sinatra]

Ok, I dl'd the mod (thanks!) but It still does not tell me the length of the ships.

Am I missing something? How do I find out the length of the ships so I can use the manual targeting? I need the length to find out the speed. help!

[Krupp]

Ok, I dl'd the mod (thanks!) but It still does not tell me the length of the ships.

Am I missing something? How do I find out the length of the ships so I can use the manual targeting? I need the length to find out the speed. help!


No, it doesen't show you the lengths. It only corrects the dimensions and helps you to get the correct stadimeter range measured from the masthead. I use whizwheel and speed omnimeter to calculate target speeds, so the missing lenghts doesen't bother me.

But there is a printable (pdf-format) recognition manual (for imperial and metric scale users), made by yllekm, download and print it. It gives you the information you need and more too.

Then there's a topic about getting the lengts visible in the ingame recognition manual...

[NefariousKoel]

Ok, I dl'd the mod (thanks!) but It still does not tell me the length of the ships.

Am I missing something? How do I find out the length of the ships so I can use the manual targeting? I need the length to find out the speed. help!

Here is an in-game mod that shows the length of the ship instead of speed in your ID manual.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114148

Personally, I printed off a recognition manual someone released that includes the various angle looks and the length in feet.

Your call. ;)

[LukeFF]

I came across an issue last night that perplexes me. It seems that the Small Split Freighter (KSS) and the Small Old Split Freighter (KSSSKasagisan) share the same picture in the Recognition Manual, yet they have different max speeds and mast heights. What's more, only one of the two show up in the Museum. Are these two ships supposed to be two unique entries, or did something get duplicated along the way?

[Krupp]

I came across an issue last night that perplexes me. It seems that the Small Split Freighter (KSS) and the Small Old Split Freighter (KSSSKasagisan) share the same picture in the Recognition Manual, yet they have different max speeds and mast heights. What's more, only one of the two show up in the Museum. Are these two ships supposed to be two unique entries, or did something get duplicated along the way?

There are some ships in sea-folder, that share the same outlook, but are different ships. Nothing got duplicated. I didn't edit the "ksss"-version, cos I think it might be allied ship (I've seen few of that type). Only jap ships were modded ( the ones with japanese name after the type ). I don't know about the museum, I never looked in. All sunk "kss"-types so far have been jap's, and showed as "Kasagisan" in the logbook.

[LukeFF]

There are some ships in sea-folder, that share the same outlook, but are different ships. Nothing got duplicated. I didn't edit the "ksss"-version, cos I think it might be allied ship (I've seen few of that type). Only jap ships were modded ( the ones with japanese name after the type ). I don't know about the museum, I never looked in. All sunk "kss"-types so far have been jap's, and showed as "Kasagisan" in the logbook.

Got it. The "Small Split Freighter" is an Allied unit, and the "Small Old Split Freighter" is a Japanese unit. Seems odd, nonetheless, that they would model it as such. Why not just use the same ship for both sides?

[Krupp]

This (odd ship dimensions) wasn't intentional feature, but a bug.

From the dev's:

"Recheck all ship dimensions in the game config files to solve errors in target range calculations"

So this mod is hopefully obsolete after the coming 1.3 patch.

[Krupp]

New version for 1.3 available here:

http://www.speedyshare.com/769273574.html

Looks like there still may be use for this fix...

Mod includes the cfg-files from the previous version (JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2b) and sim-files are from the new 1.3 patch.

JSGME compatible.

[reallydedpoet]

Thanks Krupp:up::up:


RDP

[jmr]

I thought patch 1.3 fixed this problem so that we wouldn't need this mod anymore???

[Krupp]

I thought patch 1.3 fixed this problem so that we wouldn't need this mod anymore???
I thought/hoped so too, but I'll continue to use it after 1.3. But it's your call if you take it in use or not. Best way to find out is to compare the cfg-file values between this mod and new patch, and then decide. It is not a crusial mod anyway...

[Bluesub 6]

I thought patch 1.3 fixed this problem so that we wouldn't need this mod anymore???
I thought/hoped so too, but I'll continue to use it after 1.3. But it's your call if you take it in use or not. Best way to find out is to compare the cfg-file values between this mod and new patch, and then decide. It is not a crusial mod anyway...
But a good Mod.
Thanks Krupp:up:

[supposedtobeworking]

wait...so are the values in 1.3 correct or not? I am a manual TDC man, so I would really like to know if I need this mod or not to get accurate range readings. Thanks.

[Bando]

As far as I can see it, this mod is no longer needed. All stadimeter measurements are correct without the mod. :up:

I don't know if the ship's dimensions are all correct, and to me at this moment it's not a concern. As long as the stadimeter works I'm happy, for now. :yep:

[Krupp]

As far as I can see it, this mod is no longer needed. All stadimeter measurements are correct without the mod. :up:

I don't know if the ship's dimensions are all correct, and to me at this moment it's not a concern. As long as the stadimeter works I'm happy, for now. :yep:


Yes, you're right. The stadimeter works now with "better" accuracy. And like you also said, there are (again) oddities in other dimensions. But it's easy to change all the dimensions to more correct, so I'll continue to use 1.3 version.

[Redwine]

Many thanks Krupp ! :up:

[Bando]

The stadimeter working, means the mastheight are correct as far as the game is concerned.
The values for the rest of the ship should come together in Tater's efford to get the rec manual up to speed with ONA pictures and measurements.

It's still a little fog of war so to speak.
Your mod was needed in 1.2. I used it with great effect, I'd like to thank you for that, I really do.
I was missing a lot in those days, after your mod I missed a lot less. Thanks a lot....:up:

[supposedtobeworking]

so then the other measurements are just so one can sleep at night knowing that the measurements of ships lengths etc. are correct in the recognition manual, but they do not affect getting a range reading..is this correct? IOW, the mast height is the measurement which affects the accuracy of a range reading, which was corrected in the 1.3 patch, but this mod goes one step further and corrects all of the other dimensions as listd in the rec manual? thanks again

[Bono_LV]

New version for 1.3 available here:

http://www.speedyshare.com/769273574.html

Looks like there still may be use for this fix...

Mod includes the cfg-files from the previous version (JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2b) and sim-files are from the new 1.3 patch.

JSGME compatible.

Damn, I can't figure out how to download it. I press the download link, but all what happens is reloading that page. Any advice?

[Bluesub 6]

I have as main browser Firefox,but can´t download.
Must change, with IE Tab to IE7,then no probelms.

[Bono_LV]

Can somebody upload it on rapidshare or any other server? My country is banned for some for me unknown reason in speedshare servers.

[sneekyzeke]

I am using TM 1.5; it is my favorite overall mod. I notice that in your individual ship configs the displacement value varies greatly from TM's values. Now, please believe me when I say this is NOT criticism of either or ANY modder's work; I have the utmost respect and admiration for anyone who devotes their time gratis to enhance my favorite hobby! But I'm wondering if overwriting TM's values will change anything major or will it be closer to reality. Thanx a bunch!:D Zeke.

[tater]

Ducimus would have to answer definitively, but I think that he tended to lower displacements of merchants, and increase their tonnage variability.

A stictly "accurate" tonnage is more accurate for that ship, but the problem is (I assume this is what ducimus was getting at) is that the real jap merchant marine was not as standardized as say the late war US with many many ships of just 2 classes. So the Taihosan Maru is filling in for ships from Fox Tare Dog coasters of ~1000 tons all the way to 2000 ton small merchants of many many different varieties.

Again, I haven't really, and I'm not an expert on TM by any stretch, but that rings a bell from my reading.

(beat the crap out of me if I'm wrong, ducimus---or use another nuke, lol) :D

tater

[sneekyzeke]

Lookin' forward to ICL 0.76! You're one of my faves, too. :up: :rock: Anyhoo, depending on what others reply (if they do) and if it wouldn't render Krupp's work moot, I suppose I could go thru & replace just the displacement values (what can I say, I'm a patient guy). Cheers, Zeke.

[sneekyzeke]

Oh well, tried everything I could think of (within reason) and I get immediate CTD's. No biggie I'll just wait awhile. Zeke

[swdw]

Found an error in the file structure, the NSC_Subchaser folder starts with NCS, but the filenames inside the folder are correct.

(Fixed and sent Krupp a link so he can download and post it on a hosting service)

Check your PM please Krupp

[Drebbel]

Is this patchy still needed with SH4 1.3 ?

[reallydedpoet]

Is this patchy still needed with SH4 1.3 ?

Sounds like it is not from this earlier post. The larger mods I believe have incorporated this I believe.


RDP

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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 351


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bando
As far as I can see it, this mod is no longer needed. All stadimeter measurements are correct without the mod. :up:

I don't know if the ship's dimensions are all correct, and to me at this moment it's not a concern. As long as the stadimeter works I'm happy, for now. :yep:



Yes, you're right. The stadimeter works now with "better" accuracy. And like you also said, there are (again) oddities in other dimensions. But it's easy to change all the dimensions to more correct, so I'll continue to use 1.3 version.
__________________
"Gentlemen, we have no choice. Total engagement.
Die with dignity."

[swdw]

The mod changes some of the length and beam dimensions too. You might miss less often with it.

[Mav87th]

While "tampering" with the mod i noticed an error in the BB Zinbu Maru's cfg file. Max speed is set to 120.....you might want to change that..:arrgh!:

Awesome mod:rock:

[swdw]

Thanks for the heads up on the file MAv87th as this mod is incorporated in RFB- will check that in the RFB file.

Plus- CapnScurvy customized his SCAF for the modified values and added a couple of corrections of his own. (which may include the speed fix- gotta check.)