The next level

[TDK1044]

So Silent Hunter 4 has been out a week now, and I personally think it's a good sim that has a few issues that will be ironed out over the coming weeks and months in order to make it a great sim.

I post this thread simply as my personal opinion as a WWII sub sim fan hoping to see Silent Hunter 5 a few years down the line.

For me, even when SH4 is fully patched and modded, it will lack the ability for the Captain to realistically interact with his crew in vision. That's not the fault of the Dev team, because in essence SH4 is an updated version of SH3 in many ways and the feel of the game will obviously reflect that. But I believe that should we be lucky enough to be offered a Silent Hunter 5 a couple of years down the line, then a different gramatical approach to life on board the sub should be considered.

Taking all that we've learned from the Silent Hunter series into account, I think we need to consider a 'movie' style gramatical approach to what happens on board our sub in order for the on board experiene to be more realistic and immersive.

For example, I stated in an earlier post that I think that a crew member should be seen bringing an important message to the Captain, and the picture should then cut to the Captain's point of view of the message as he reads it. Similarly, if the Captain is resting in his cabin and his presence is required elsewhere, then we should either hear correctly distorted audio coming through a speaker in his cabin, if indeed it's historically accurate and there would have been a speaker in there, or a crew member should come to his cabin and get him.

If these and other similar features were incorporated into SH4 with all the patches and mods in place, imagine how real the on board experience would then have become.

So I think that whatever ocean we hopefully find ourself in for SH5 in a few years time, the Dev team building that sim should in my opinion seriously consider a different gramatical approach to the crew interaction.

For now though, I'm really enjoying SH4 and I will continue to do so for a long time to come. I'm looking forward to patch 1.2 and the talent of the modders who are the real aces of the deep! :D

[CrocodileDundee]

Silent Hunter 5 - The post-war no-fight, no-convoy-attacks simulator?:lol:

You can't turn the same game over and over between Atlantic and Pacific until your fan base turns sea-sick...

PS: I hope I'm wrong

[Sailor Steve]

Sure you can; or else AOD and SH1 would still be the all-time best WW2 subsims.

I'm hoping that down the line there will be a new Atlantic U-boat sim with SH4's water and surface-ship crew effects, optimized for Vista and DX-10 and with all the current reported bugs fixed, and with SH3 Commander's variability. And a new Pacific subsim following closely on its heels. If that takes another 10 years, so be it, but if I'm still around I'll buy it and play it.

[TDK1044]

Sure you can; or else AOD and SH1 would still be the all-time best WW2 subsims.

I'm hoping that down the line there will be a new Atlantic U-boat sim with SH4's water and surface-ship crew effects, optimized for Vista and DX-10 and with all the current reported bugs fixed, and with SH3 Commander's variability. And a new Pacific subsim following closely on its heels. If that takes another 10 years, so be it, but if I'm still around I'll buy it and play it.

Amen to all that. I guess my main point is that while I understand continually improving the eye candy in order to attract the casual gamer and his $49, I don't want to see this happen at the expense of the on board experience.

I really like SH4, but for as much as it has advanced in terms of everything happening outside the sub, I can't help but feel that we lost a little bit of atmosphere inside the sub.

I think a Dev team of any future subsim needs to consider the importance of the on board reality as the Captain interacts with his crew.

[CrocodileDundee]

Sure you can; or else AOD and SH1 would still be the all-time best WW2 subsims.


True, but you haven't played SH1 or SH2 for a looong time. That's why SH3 hit the spot. Otherwise it gets boring.

I'd love to play with the early nuke subs (maybe in an imaginary conflict). Doens't have to be 'historical'. I couldn't care less if they came up with some cocked up scenario.


I'm hoping that down the line there will be a new Atlantic U-boat sim with SH4's water and surface-ship crew effects, optimized for Vista and DX-10 and with all the current reported bugs fixed, and with SH3 Commander's variability. And a new Pacific subsim following closely on its heels. If that takes another 10 years, so be it, but if I'm still around I'll buy it and play it.

Why not have an add-on to SH4 where you could play the 'other side' - i.e. the Jap navy (sub, destroyer). I'd love to command a battleship for example.

As for the subs, I'm not waiting for another Atlantic campain, I'm just bored with the subject. I know how it plays, I know how it ends, I read so much about Uboats since 2005 ... It's just not fun anymore. In a way I miss having a type XXI in the American Navy, but hey... nothing's perfect :D

[GakunGak]

What, no nukes and no cold-war???!!!
I feel hunting typhoons under ice pack for 80 days...:rock: :up:

[CrocodileDundee]

Amen to all that. I guess my main point is that while I understand continually improving the eye candy in order to attract the casual gamer and his $49, I don't want to see this happen at the expense of the on board experience.

I really like SH4, but for as much as it has advanced in terms of everything happening outside the sub, I can't help but feel that we lost a little bit of atmosphere inside the sub.

I think a Dev team of any future subsim needs to consider the importance of the on board reality as the Captain interacts with his crew.

So you're saying you won't mind being stuck between 1939-1945 FOREVER?:lol:

C'mon, the same problems, the same tech, (maybe with more cap'n-crew interaction) would satisfy you?

I'm more fussy. I want a new challenge, even if it's not based on something that really happened when grandpa was a dashing young fellow.

[CrocodileDundee]

What, no nukes and no cold-war???!!!
I feel hunting typhoons under ice pack for 80 days...:rock: :up:

Amen to that brother!

Enough of this low tech stuff. (besides, SH4 is not much of a challenge, it lacks the creepiness of SH3 uboat attack, against overwhelming odds...). I wanna sh*t my pants when the absolute silence is broken by s sudden *PING* reverberating under the ice... followed by the transients of torpedo doors opening and then the homing ping of an active torpedo...

Why should I be sentenced to patrol the Atlantic into a rusty, oil-leaking, ancient bucket?

[TDK1044]

Amen to all that. I guess my main point is that while I understand continually improving the eye candy in order to attract the casual gamer and his $49, I don't want to see this happen at the expense of the on board experience.

I really like SH4, but for as much as it has advanced in terms of everything happening outside the sub, I can't help but feel that we lost a little bit of atmosphere inside the sub.

I think a Dev team of any future subsim needs to consider the importance of the on board reality as the Captain interacts with his crew.

So you're saying you won't mind being stuck between 1939-1945 FOREVER?:lol:

C'mon, the same problems, the same tech, (maybe with more cap'n-crew interaction) would satisfy you?

I'm more fussy. I want a new challenge, even if it's not based on something that really happened when grandpa was a dashing young fellow.


Oh, I'd enjoy any sub sim in any era. My choice is WWII because of the cat and mouse nature of the adventure.

[John Channing]

I'm hoping that down the line there will be a new Atlantic U-boat sim with SH4's water and surface-ship crew effects, optimized for Vista and DX-10 and with all the current reported bugs fixed, and with SH3 Commander's variability.

And donuts. Don't forget donuts.

It should come with donuts!

JCC

[CrocodileDundee]

Oh, I'd enjoy any sub sim in any era. My choice is WWII because of the cat and mouse nature of the adventure.

Granted. However, I'd love to play the cat&mouse in a more deadly machine (subs in WW2 are so rudimentary)- and as I was saying before, the threat from the surface vessels in SH4 is neglijible (@100% realism). The 'cat and mouse' is muuuch better in SH3. You really need all odds against you to really enjoy a sub game. Maybe that's why subs are so much cooler than any other vessel (i.e. because you can actually survive overwhelming odds).

[Platapus]

I would like to see voice activated commands implemented in future sub sims.

[Sailor Steve]

True, but you haven't played SH1 or SH2 for a looong time. That's why SH3 hit the spot. Otherwise it gets boring.
Actually if I could play right now I would have been playing SH1 right up until SH4's release. I love bouncing back and forth.:rotfl:

Why not have an add-on to SH4 where you could play the 'other side' - i.e. the Jap navy (sub, destroyer). I'd love to command a battleship for example.
I would love to see the devs upgrade SH3 to SH4's standards, and very soon. I'm not that big on battleships, but I'd love to command a corvette.

So you're saying you won't mind being stuck between 1939-1945 FOREVER?:lol:

C'mon, the same problems, the same tech, (maybe with more cap'n-crew interaction) would satisfy you?

I'm more fussy. I want a new challenge, even if it's not based on something that really happened when grandpa was a dashing young fellow.
I have nothing against modern subsims other than that I'm not remotely interested; I'll be glad to see them, just not with a Silent Hunter title.
I've been playing the same WW1 and WW2 airwar games with model airplanes with my friends for 30 years, and I'm not tired of it yet.

[Spin Doctor]

What, no nukes and no cold-war???!!!
I feel hunting typhoons under ice pack for 80 days...:rock: :up:

You already have "Sub Command" by Sonalyis for that. It was very good, but a bit too scripted for my taste. The the campaign made me lose interest somewhat. Still, it was and is a great modern subwarfare sim. Should be easy to find and cheap to run. For those who are into doing everythng imaginable on a nuke boat, it's probably the best sim going.

On another topic, I'm afraid Silent Hunter will never have the type of player involvement that TDK1044 mentioned because UBI isn't going to allow the time necessary to develop those interactive modules. It would definitely help the game and there are probably some easy ways to get the same feel of interaction without major rewrites, but I haven't thought about it. Actually having this kind of interaction will possibly increase favor among casual gamers since you get the "wow, that's so cool!" factor.

There is no imagination required to do graphical updates which is the standard MO for sequels today. For this reason, I'm passing totally on SH4. I don't need SH3 in a new dress, especially with even less crew interaction. Sailing around racking up a half million tons of cargo in a few patrols is what bored me about SH3. Thank God for GWX. I like the idea of being glad to even get 20 or 30K of shipping and still escaping with my life. Or even getting no shipping and escaping with my life.

However, I believe the common aspect of classic games and sims is that you have to give a sh*t about your people. Everything else that happens has to revolve about your caring. Red baron 3D, X Com, EAW, Mig Alley (to an extent) to name a few, all have this in common. When you turn the crew into animated puppets and faceless cardboard cutouts, most people rapidly loose interest after the "gee whiz" graphics wears off. If you take these same cardboard cutouts and give them personality ala X Com, then you have a world beater. Anyone who played X- com knows that 80% of the game was building your guys up and literally being distraught if one of the "heavy' guys died.

I distinctly remember a buddy of mine playing one evening assultng a large spaceship. He had a few of his best guys stationed at a hole he had blown in the top, with nuke launchers and I casually mentioned that I've never seen an X com agent auto launch one of those nuke footballs. Well, just about that time an alien ambled past the hole and all four of his agents auto launched into that hole, killing all involved. He was playing a dead is dead game and I tell you, if you've never seen a 6'5" 300 lbs man cry, take it from me, it isn't pretty. He didn't actually cry, but it was as close as I want to get to that. He did, in fact put both fists through the keyboard sending parts flying in hundreds of directions...

I dirgress...

Anyhow, fortunately for UBI, there is a dedicated and I mean very dedicated mod community that keeps their sims alive and thriving well past the time when the relevancy of the original developers ideas has faded. They have the ability to take the most important aspects of subwarfare and make it believeable. UBI really needs to be paying these guys. Not hiring them. Just paying them.

I tip my hat to these guys.

My 2 cents plus tax.

[Liszt_]

I was thinking how it would've been cool to have a 3rd person perspective when on board the boat, allowing you to walk around the sub to any quarters of your choosing. Crew interactions follow similarly as described above where certain crew will yell out or bring messages to the captain. The captain can be summed to the command post and you'll have to run(hold down shift? lol) to the forward command post.

[TDK1044]

What, no nukes and no cold-war???!!!
I feel hunting typhoons under ice pack for 80 days...:rock: :up:

You already have "Sub Command" by Sonalyis for that. It was very good, but a bit too scripted for my taste. The the campaign made me lose interest somewhat. Still, it was and is a great modern subwarfare sim. Should be easy to find and cheap to run. For those who are into doing everythng imaginable on a nuke boat, it's probably the best sim going.

On another topic, I'm afraid Silent Hunter will never have the type of player involvement that TDK1044 mentioned because UBI isn't going to allow the time necessary to develop those interactive modules. It would definitely help the game and there are probably some easy ways to get the same feel of interaction without major rewrites, but I haven't thought about it. Actually having this kind of interaction will possibly increase favor among casual gamers since you get the "wow, that's so cool!" factor.

There is no imagination required to do graphical updates which is the standard MO for sequels today. For this reason, I'm passing totally on SH4. I don't need SH3 in a new dress, especially with even less crew interaction. Sailing around racking up a half million tons of cargo in a few patrols is what bored me about SH3. Thank God for GWX. I like the idea of being glad to even get 20 or 30K of shipping and still escaping with my life. Or even getting no shipping and escaping with my life.

However, I believe the common aspect of classic games and sims is that you have to give a sh*t about your people. Everything else that happens has to revolve about your caring. Red baron 3D, X Com, EAW, Mig Alley (to an extent) to name a few, all have this in common. When you turn the crew into animated puppets and faceless cardboard cutouts, most people rapidly loose interest after the "gee whiz" graphics wears off. If you take these same cardboard cutouts and give them personality ala X Com, then you have a world beater. Anyone who played X- com knows that 80% of the game was building your guys up and literally being distraught if one of the "heavy' guys died.

I distinctly remember a buddy of mine playing one evening assultng a large spaceship. He had a few of his best guys stationed at a hole he had blown in the top, with nuke launchers and I casually mentioned that I've never seen an X com agent auto launch one of those nuke footballs. Well, just about that time an alien ambled past the hole and all four of his agents auto launched into that hole, killing all involved. He was playing a dead is dead game and I tell you, if you've never seen a 6'5" 300 lbs man cry, take it from me, it isn't pretty. He didn't actually cry, but it was as close as I want to get to that. He did, in fact put both fists through the keyboard sending parts flying in hundreds of directions...

I dirgress...

Anyhow, fortunately for UBI, there is a dedicated and I mean very dedicated mod community that keeps their sims alive and thriving well past the time when the relevancy of the original developers ideas has faded. They have the ability to take the most important aspects of subwarfare and make it believeable. UBI really needs to be paying these guys. Not hiring them. Just paying them.

I tip my hat to these guys.

My 2 cents plus tax.


An excellent post that says it all.

:D