Expansions,expansions,expansions!!!

[tonibamestre]

Hello,this is what I would like after the upcoming SH4.
-IJN(Imperial Jap Navy) expansion,implementing in detail the main big Carriers,Battleships,Cruisers and Destroyers,all them fully controllable and operative.
-USN expansion,covering the same but on the US side,with full capability to operate all the air wing onboard the carriers.The same with Jap side of course.
-With all this stuff working together,a good 24h online server to be able to organize broad missions during days.

What you guys and developers think about?

[CCIP]

I think the game "Pacific Storm" is closer to this kind fo thing :88)

I don't think the SH engine is particularly well-suited to simulating surface combat. I may be wrong, but it'd have to more or less be a new game. It would take a LOT of effort to implement the factors that are simplified in SHIII - gunnery and ballistics models, shell damage, performance, physics, and so on. Surface ships in SHIII (and probably SHIV) are really simplified in modelling for the most part.

In general, 'surface ship simulator' is kind of a difficult idea - because surface ships normally work in groups. The role of captain on a warship is a bit different, too; and the more systems and weapons a ship has, the less direct control a captain has over them. You certainly aren't the guy with the red button on a battleship, it's not quite the same as a sub. A multi-unit strategy/tactics command type of wargame is far more suited to modelling surface combat.

What I'd rather see in possible expansions is strictly submarine developments - especially things like the neglected British, Dutch, Italian and other underwater navies.

[TDK1044]

This is a WW2 sub simulator. You're describing a totally different kind of game.

[Torplexed]

I think Ubisoft's Pacific Fighters kinda covers the air war in the Pacific although it lacked a lot of planes. When you think about it, it's rather dull being a carrier or battleship skipper. The average carrier or battleship didn't see nearly as much action as submarines did during the war. There were only about five or six carrier versus carrier battles during the whole Pacific War. The only time American and Japanese battleships faced off was once at Guadalacanal in 1942 and again in a mis-match in 1944 at the Suriago Strait.

[Corsair]

Hello,this is what I would like after the upcoming SH4.
-IJN(Imperial Jap Navy) expansion,implementing in detail the main big Carriers,Battleships,Cruisers and Destroyers,all them fully controllable and operative.
-USN expansion,covering the same but on the US side,with full capability to operate all the air wing onboard the carriers.The same with Jap side of course.
-With all this stuff working together,a good 24h online server to be able to organize broad missions during days.

What you guys and developers think about?

There is a game soon coming out called "Battlestations Midway" it seems from the trailers to match what you're looking for (all kinds of vessels, planes, subs...). Pacific Storm has a lot of work on the supply and production aspects.
Silent Hunter series are a submarine simulation, which is something very different.

[Pants]

Hello,this is what I would like after the upcoming SH4.
-IJN(Imperial Jap Navy) expansion,implementing in detail the main big Carriers,Battleships,Cruisers and Destroyers,all them fully controllable and operative.
-USN expansion,covering the same but on the US side,with full capability to operate all the air wing onboard the carriers.The same with Jap side of course.
-With all this stuff working together,a good 24h online server to be able to organize broad missions during days.

What you guys and developers think about?
I for one would LOVE a game like this :up:
Ahh we can only dream :arrgh!:
Was looking forward to BSM.. however the latest screenies and updates are slowly letting me down.
I dont like the 3rd person view on the AC, and it's starting to look way to arcadish. I just hope the screenies are for the 360 and not the PC version.

[Corsair]

Agreed with you, Pants, starts looking like the usual arcade game with better graphics.
Am waiting for the new re-edition of Carriers at War by Matrix, as I loved the original one, the gameplay was very interesting.

[AG124]

Although I am looking forward to SHIV as it is, a game where one could command both surface vessels and subs on this kind of engine would indeed be great.:o But I have absolutely no realistic expectation of this happening, so I am happy to stick with commanding submarines. As has been said in this thread before, the Silent Hunter series was and is a SubSim and will likely remain that way. And I think Destroyer Command now looks to have been an anomaly - at least, we don't appear to be getting a new version on the SHIII engine. Not that I even played the first one, but a new version would probably be the only way you would get some of what you wanted, and even then, not very much of it (i.e. probably just commandable surface vessels, with no capability to launch carrier strikes or command an entire fleet or anything else like that).

[Agrippa]

At the moment, I feel that the only expansion SH4 will definitely need is one that will allow a Japanese campaign. In the same expansion it should also be possible to include a British/Dutch campaign, and the inclusion of S-boats for the U.S.

After getting the game I'm sure we'll all have ideas, some that can be done in mods, some that can't. I just got the original SH working on an old laptop, and I've noticed a couple of things that I thought might be nice in the new game. For one, I like the damage control screen from SH better than that from SH3 (didn't play sh2). Of course, the current screen also needs room for crew management, damage control teams, etc, but in the original I liked how there were more compartments you could click on to check status, and also the panel of lights (green, yellow, red) for ship systems.

Also, it might be nice to have an option to have your boat and location assignment given to you by your superiors. In SH3 I do like being able to choose my boat and all the trimmings, because it allows you to choose how the game will play, but an option for realism to be told what I'll command from where wouldn't hurt.

This game engine could be used to simulate surface ships, but that would have to be an entirely different game, rather than an expansion of Silent Hunter.

[1mPHUNit0]

http://www.gamerankings.com/screens3/24365/2.jpg

[1mPHUNit0]

http://dod.xrea.jp/_silent/image/int_binos.jpg

[1mPHUNit0]

http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/07/34/116284.jpeghttp://www.pearl.de/images/large/rk-2838_6.jpghttp://www.silenthunter.dk/shi/review/image002.gif

[AG124]

I see a Japanese Standard Merchant in the SHI shot at the bottom.:p I can remember sinking those a long, long time ago...:hmm:

[geetrue]

Maybe the developers could find a beer company to sponcer
Silent Hunter IV ... Then we could have all of the mods and
expansions and add-on's for free. :lol:

This is the only expansion pack I want to see ...
Hula girls waiting on the pier for us when we come
back for a fresh re-load ... :p


http://theworldwideweather.com/PhotoDraw81.jpg

[Schatten]

My vote for an expansion would be the Dutch and/or British subs that were operating in the PTO. Just for a little different change of pace and all.

In a world of pure wishful thinking being able to reverse engineer them into SHIII (or have German and Italian target units ported into SHIV and going to that side of the world in SHIV) and taking the Brit subs into the Med would make me smile a lot.

Then again if we could do that I'd like to see the Italian subs put in as well...

[1mPHUNit0]

No no expansions.
AoD was superb...AI fantastic
UZO was better in SHI SHII and even AoD.
And if they give us tools like Microsoft do
.......you know

[heartc]

The original poster might also want to check out "1942: The Pacific Air War" from Microprose, 1994. Anyone remember that? I fire up God's own gift which is DosBox and give that one a whirl occasionally to this day.
As the name suggests, it was a flightsimulation, but aside from the usual "Joe Pilot" campaign mode, there was also a dynamic wargame in there, called "Carrier Battle". It had you conduct the major carrier operations from either side, either with historical setups or randomized. Map view, have your taskforce, order it around the map much like we do in our subsims, shedule Combat Air Patrols above your ships and bases, send out recon planes to find the enemy, then set up an airstrike with dive / torpedo bombers and fighter escort from the wings based on your carriers, or let your Battleships have a go at the enemy at night etc etc. Don't make radical course and speed changes though with your carrier while a strikforce is underway, so that their calculated point for recovery stays true, otherwise they might not find back to the ship and you'd loose the whole damn wing! Happened to me more than once lol.

But now comes the real shiznits: Anytime contact was made with the enemy (so, either strike has arrived at target area or one of your CAPs encounters enemy bombers), you could jump into the cockpit and get it over with!

Sigh. They don't make 'em like they used to anymore. Ubisofts Pacific Fighters, not even having carrier-based Torpedo Bombers flyable, is a mere joke in comparison, albeit the best the market has to over these days. And I'm getting old.

[Schatten]

I still have my original PAW disk sitting here next to my computer, I haven't fired it up for ages to play but a few years back I did extract some stuff from it to incorpertate into EAW which after a lot of work by a lot of people turned into a pretty decent PTO (among other theatres) flightsim. The PAW manuals were excellent too, not like the little "take a wild guess" pamphlets that come with them now. Although for sheer awesomeness I still say nothing in the prop sim realm could beat Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe's manual.

As for Pacific Fighters, yeah pretty much what you said. It amuses me that we couldn't get an F4U-4 in the game, or single engine carrier capable torpedo bombers, or even infantry (which are essential for the PTO IMHO) and yet now they're releasing yet more MiGs of which 3 examples were ever made, and German wunderweapons that never went past the blueprint phase. Being a huge PTO buff, a lot of the design decisions in Pacific Fighters leaves me going "huh?" a lot. But yeah it's pretty much the only (modern) PTO sim in town.

[Corsair]

The original poster might also want to check out "1942: The Pacific Air War" from Microprose, 1994. Anyone remember that? I fire up God's own gift which is DosBox and give that one a whirl occasionally to this day.
As the name suggests, it was a flightsimulation, but aside from the usual "Joe Pilot" campaign mode, there was also a dynamic wargame in there, called "Carrier Battle". It had you conduct the major carrier operations from either side, either with historical setups or randomized. Map view, have your taskforce, order it around the map much like we do in our subsims, shedule Combat Air Patrols above your ships and bases, send out recon planes to find the enemy, then set up an airstrike with dive / torpedo bombers and fighter escort from the wings based on your carriers, or let your Battleships have a go at the enemy at night etc etc. Don't make radical course and speed changes though with your carrier while a strikforce is underway, so that their calculated point for recovery stays true, otherwise they might not find back to the ship and you'd loose the whole damn wing! Happened to me more than once lol.

But now comes the real shiznits: Anytime contact was made with the enemy (so, either strike has arrived at target area or one of your CAPs encounters enemy bombers), you could jump into the cockpit and get it over with!

Sigh. They don't make 'em like they used to anymore. Ubisofts Pacific Fighters, not even having carrier-based Torpedo Bombers flyable, is a mere joke in comparison, albeit the best the market has to over these days. And I'm getting old.

I do !! Been playing most Microprose sims, this was a soft company at the time !!!
Spent a lot of time flyin 1942 : Pacific Air war. Agree it was a very good sim.

[heartc]

Microprose is a legend. Not only were they king of simulations, but also spot on in other genres. Who doesn't remember UFO: Enemy Unknown (X-Com). Or Master of Orion. Those games have never been topped in terms of gameplay to this day.

Oh, and yes, I also remember SWOTL (1991) from LucasArts. True gem. That was "Luft '46" done RIGHT (I'm also bewildered by the arkward 1C Maddox design decisions.) Didn't have the manual though. I got it on CD in 1995 - maybe manual was there in Acrobat format, never checked it out though.

[Schatten]

The manual for SWOTL was a massive spiralbound affair, much like the one for Their Finest Hour but with even more stuff in it.

MicroProse did indeed rock, I still have very fond memories of the original Gunship on my C-64 along with F-15 Strike Eagle, F-19 Stealth (hey no one knew the what the designation was going to be at the time) and the like. Not to forget good sub games like Red Storm Rising and Silent Service. I really need to find a fuse for my floppy drive and get the old C-64 back up and running maybe...

[Frateloder]

:hmm: I've always dreamed of a MMORPG that would be an all-encompassing WWII reality. Games like BF1942 and the like have come and gone with an 'arcade' type feel, but I'm talking about a much more accurate simulation.

What if you could choose a career under any major country's military branch you wish? Whether you choose to be a sub captain for the USA, a British fighter pilot, a German soldier, a Russian tank commander, or a Japanese bombardier it wouldn't matter... everything would be as accurate of a simulator as possible and everyone would participate in an "always running" World War II virtual world. As people's careers advanced they would be promoted and given the option to command, plan operations, etc etc.

Yeah I know... I'm a dreamer. :|\\

[Corsair]

The manual for SWOTL was a massive spiralbound affair, much like the one for Their Finest Hour but with even more stuff in it.

MicroProse did indeed rock, I still have very fond memories of the original Gunship on my C-64 along with F-15 Strike Eagle, F-19 Stealth (hey no one knew the what the designation was going to be at the time) and the like. Not to forget good sub games like Red Storm Rising and Silent Service. I really need to find a fuse for my floppy drive and get the old C-64 back up and running maybe...

Same here, started real gaming on the C64...;) Flown the F15 series, specially the nr 3 on PC (the game came on 4 or 5 diskettes, was very impressive at the time, a more than 10 Meg install..:D), and also he F19...

[MarshalLaw]

I believe a nice expansion would be to include operations in Indian Ocean and the Med, also have the German long range boats included and playable.

Another option would be to command Japanese subs from the begining of the war. Yes Japan's sub played a supply and support role only , but do a campaign based on a "what if" that they used them as the Germans did to strangle the allies supply efforts

[Patboot]

:hmm: I've always dreamed of a MMORPG that would be an all-encompassing WWII reality. Games like BF1942 and the like have come and gone with an 'arcade' type feel, but I'm talking about a much more accurate simulation.

What if you could choose a career under any major country's military branch you wish? Whether you choose to be a sub captain for the USA, a British fighter pilot, a German soldier, a Russian tank commander, or a Japanese bombardier it wouldn't matter... everything would be as accurate of a simulator as possible and everyone would participate in an "always running" World War II virtual world. As people's careers advanced they would be promoted and given the option to command, plan operations, etc etc.

Yeah I know... I'm a dreamer. :|\\

I probably shouldn't mention WWIIOL then.

[Frateloder]

:hmm: I've always dreamed of a MMORPG that would be an all-encompassing WWII reality. Games like BF1942 and the like have come and gone with an 'arcade' type feel, but I'm talking about a much more accurate simulation.

What if you could choose a career under any major country's military branch you wish? Whether you choose to be a sub captain for the USA, a British fighter pilot, a German soldier, a Russian tank commander, or a Japanese bombardier it wouldn't matter... everything would be as accurate of a simulator as possible and everyone would participate in an "always running" World War II virtual world. As people's careers advanced they would be promoted and given the option to command, plan operations, etc etc.

Yeah I know... I'm a dreamer. :|\\

I probably shouldn't mention WWIIOL then.

OK smartypants, so if I play WWIIOL then my submarine is portrayed as accurately as Silent Hunter? My airplane is as accurate as FS2004?

:nope:

I'm talking about making it as real as possible... and it'd be a RPG as well as a simulator. You'd choose a career and you'd become professional at your role. No jumping between a plane and then a sub and then something else (unless you want to start a new 'career'). It would be as realistic as possible.

WWIIOL is a start, but there are technological limits... you can't model the entire earth and have millions of computer controlled bots filling the roles that aren't controlled by people. I'm thinking on a much much larger scale... and the servers/pcs that it would require won't be around for awhile.

[Corsair]

Good ideas, but sounds easier to have a real war...:D

[Frateloder]

Well, I did mention that I'm a dreamer... lol

:up:

[Patboot]

See? I forget to add a sarcastic :roll: and thats the reply I get.

;)

[CCIP]

Let's not forget the nightmares of figuring out a sensible system for time compression in that environment. It's no secret that 99.9% of war is sheer boredom. Modelling it realistically in all regards in an online environment risks exactly that.

[Patboot]

There couldn't be any compression- trying to update each client at realtime is hard enough. By each client, I mean the assumed 10,000 playes all logged in at once.

Best you could hope for is "arena" (god I hate that term) with only those units in say a 100km radius being loaded/unloaded to your client. Even with that- get ready for some ragged net performance.

[Schatten]

WWII Online was great in concept but not so much in execution IMHO. I haven't played it in a long while but there were some very annoying issues for me personally with it, although I must say I really enjoyed the tank combat aspects and infantry was pretty good. If they could do what they have now for the PTO I'd probably be fairly happy, but unfortunately it's been years and they're still in France '40, which franky ain't my thing.

As for your hypothetical all war, all the time, RPG/Simulation that'd be great. But I don't think the technology is there yet, or if it is the funding for such a project sure isn't. As for the no time compression thing I think sims that want to do realtime non-zergling combat need to do what real troops do in those long moments of boredom: issue them virtual dice, cards, and scrip and let the good times roll... :lol: