your sinking

[Phil]

Ive been away for awhile Just wondering what will happen when you are sunk will you be able to wait for the inevitable or will the mission just end, will anyone be able to survive certain sinking like when the mumson lung was used, will their be any other friendly subs out their fighting i hated not having that in sh3. If you can answer any of those that would be great. Thanks Phil

[Sailor Steve]

The only real rescue from underwater was the Squalus, off the east coast of the US in fairly shallow water. I don't know of any subs that were sunk in combat from which the crews escaped, except in cases like the Tang, in which the sub was sunk on the surface and those on the bridge survived.

While the RadioLog mod didn't add subs to the game, it sure made it seem like there was help out there. I don't know if SH4 will have anything like that or not, but I doubt it.

[Crash Dive]

I'm pretty sure that some of the surviors from the Tang actually escaped after it was sunk. I remember reading something about what happened in the sub after it plunged to the bottom in O'Kanes book. Fire (to destroy important papers) and the paint bubbling but I just can't recall.

Here is an article.

http://www.csp.navy.mil/ww2boats/tang.htm

:cool:

[JU_88]

Its really not that hard to animate a submaine being crushed /breaking up in to peices (from the exterior) I dont see why not.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

I rember there was a instance when a Fleetboat was sunk with only the stern above the surface. The crew was ablt to chizel out and be rescued. :ping:

[s2c172]

IIRC that was an old S boat that sank off the coast, a passing frieghter saw them waving a flag and came to the rescue. It happend pre WWII

[Safe-Keeper]

U-637 ran aground/sunk, as far as I understand it, with the bow and conning tower over the surface and everything else below the water. She succumbed to an attack by two MTBs in Norway in April 1945.

[bookworm_020]

Some did Escape the U.S.S Tang after she was sunk. Twelve men (I think) used the forward escape hatch in an escape attempt. Only four made it to the surface alive.

I wish I could give the exact number, but I'm still waiting for a copy of the book on the USS Tang thant I ordered two months ago. It hasn't arrived yet...:damn:

[Respenus]

Its really not that hard to animate a submaine being crushed /breaking up in to peices (from the exterior) I dont see why not.

See! That is what I liked in SH1. :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

I don't recall the sub sinking or breaking up in SHI; I only remember a wreath floating on the water, and that was a still picture, not animated.

[Steeltrap]

I'd have thought the idea is not to see that particular sequence, no matter how it's done......

[AVGWarhawk]

Some did Escape the U.S.S Tang after she was sunk. Twelve men (I think) used the forward escape hatch in an escape attempt. Only four made it to the surface alive.

I wish I could give the exact number, but I'm still waiting for a copy of the book on the USS Tang thant I ordered two months ago. It hasn't arrived yet...:damn:

I believe three had made it. Some used the hatch in the conning tower but they did not make it.

The game should just show the outside of the sub slowly decending into the darkness with some crushing noise. That would be cool. Just the blank screen stinks.

[Gino]

Here is a story of one of the survivors of the USS Tang.

Jesse DaSilva & The USS Tang

After working out of the relief crews #41 and #42 at Pearl Harbor, I joined the submarine Tang (SS306) after her 2nd war patrol. I made the 3rd, 4th and final patrols.
We were on our 5th patrol in the narrow strip of water between the island of Formosa and the China coast. On the night of October 24, 1944 we had a very successful attack, sinking several ships. We were down to our last two torpedoes. We fired these at a crippled transport. The first went straight but the second made a circular run.
I was a Motor Machinist Mate and had left the engine room a few minutes earlier to get a cup of coffee in the crews mess. Two other men were with me. One had headphones keeping us posted. After the last torpedo was fired we waited for the word “All Ahead Emergency!” and then we got it. The torpedo hit between the after torpedo room and the maneuvering room. Someone dogged down the water tight door between the after and forward engine rooms. The Tang was settling quickly by the stern. I clutched a ladder to keep from being pitched off my feet. Water was pouring in from the open doorway that connected the crews mess with the control room. I thought to myself, “let’s get this door shut”. Two or three of us seized the door and with a great effort shoved it closed, cutting off the flow of water.
Up to this time, our stern was sitting on the bottom and our bow was still protruding from the surface. Suddenly we settled down, someone had flooded our forward tanks. (Clayton Decker was awarded the Silver Star for his quick thinking and flooding the forward group so TANG would settle to the bottom. SDL) We lay at a level on the bottom.
The Japanese came over us and continued to drop depth charges for some time. By now we had cleared the partly flooded forward engine room and closed it off. There were now about 20 of us in the mess room and crews quarters. We knew that we couldn’t stay here because of chlorine gas. We knew too that our one chance of escape was in reaching the forward torpedo room. But we had to pass through the control room to get there. This meant opening the control room door and for all we knew, it might be flooded. Yet, we had to risk it.
Someone cracked the door...water gushed in...water rose around our legs then gradually subsided. We discovered that the control room was only partially flooded. One by one, we moved up forward knee deep in water. We filed into the control room and destroyed all secret devices. I noticed at this time the depth gauge was at 180 feet. I thought to myself that there was still a chance if we could reach the escape hatch located in the forward torpedo room. We passed through the officers quarters and into the torpedo room.
There were already 20 odd men in the in the compartment. With our arrival, brought the number to 45. There were some injured men and the air was foul and breathing was difficult. Everyone was given a Momsen Lung. There had already been several attempted escapes and now they were going to make another. I found myself at the foot of the ladder leading up into the escape trunk.
I heard someone say, “Let’s have another man!” I quickly climbed up into the trunk. I was the 3rd man. We still needed one more. Then another stepped to the ladder, climbed in and then we closed the hatch. Everything went just as we were taught at the escape tank back at Pearl Harbor. We flooded the trunk, filled our Momsen Lungs with oxygen, tested them to see if they were working. As the water rose in the trunk breathing became difficult as the pressure was building up. When the water level reached above the outer door we opened it. Someone had already let out the buoy with a line attached from the previous escapes, so now it was my turn to follow the line to the surface.
I was the 3rd one out. I wrapped my feet around the rope and slowly let myself up 10 feet at a time stopping and counting to 10 each time. About a 3rd of the way up, breathing became difficult but soon the problem went away and the water became lighter and suddenly I was on the surface. Nearby and holding onto the buoy were 4 men who had escaped before me.
We could see the ships we had sunk from the night before. A short time later two more men came up. One was our Chief Pharmacist Mate (Paul L. Larson). He came up right by us but he had something wrong. He had difficulty breathing, so we held on to him. The other was one of our stuarts (probably meant one of the Steward Mates IE officers servants). He came up some distance from us and acted like he couldn’t swim. As I reached him he disappeared, so I turned to swim back to the others. I didn’t realize I had drifted so far. It took a great effort to reach them. I realized that the tide (current?) Was moving out to sea and there would be not chance to make the mainland of China that we could see off in the distance.
After spending several hours in the water, a Japanese DE (Destroyer escort) that had been circling the area slowly came over to where we were. It circled us several times and then stopped a short distance away turning its guns towards us. I thought to myself, “well, this is it...they are going to shoot us.” But instead, they lowered a small boat and came over and picked us up.
They took us to the ship and tied our hands behind us and made us sit on the metal deck in the hot sun. I was surprised to see four other members of our crew on board. This made a total of nine that survived. (The others were CDR O’Kane, BMC Leibold, RM1 Caverly, LT Savadkin, MM3 Decker, LT(jg) Flanagan, TM2 Trukke and TM3 Narowanski)
One by one, the Japanese would take us aside and interrogate us. When it was my turn, they took me to another part of the ship and had me sit down between three of them. They offered me a ball of rice, but I could not eat it. One of them had an electrical device and he would jab me in the ribs with this and I would twitch and jump. They all thought this was very funny. The one that could speak English carried a large club about the size of a baseball bat. He would ask questions and if he didn’t like the answers he would hit me on the head with this bat. After some time when they figured that I wasn’t going to tell them anything, they took me back to the others.
Later on we were all taken to a small room and locked in there. It was so small that only two or three of us could lie down and the rest had to stand. It was very hot and only one small porthole for air which they would not let us open. Finally we persuaded the guard to let us out so they took us out and we were allowed to sit on the deck in the fresh air.
Later as we approached the island of Formosa, we were all blindfolded while we entered the harbor. Still blindfolded, we were taken off the ship, put on a truck and taken to a town. On the way we could hear people yelling and making a lot of noise. I thought they were going to club us or something, but they finally stopped.
The truck stopped in front of some building and they marched us in there. Still blindfolded we stood before some officials and the blindfolds were removed. There were a few words said then the blindfolds were put back on and we were taken back to the truck and taken to some old buildings. We were separated and I was taken to a small room with no floors, just dirt and gravel. I was told to stay there and say nothing. They brought me something to eat but I couldn’t eat whatever it was.
Several times during the night, two or three Japanese would come and shine a flashlight in my face and start asking me some questions. When they did not get the answers they would like, they would slap me across the face. When morning came, they lined us all up again and put the blindfolds back on and put us on a truck and took us to the train station. Once on the train the blindfolds were removed. We were in a regular passenger type car and all the shades were drawn. When we left the station then the shades were allowed to be raised. As we traveled from one end of Formosa to the other it was like going back 100 years. The only thing I ever saw were people working in the fields with hand plows pulled by oxen. It was an all day trip and we finally arrived at our destination at the other end of the island.
It was dark and raining when we were taken off the train and marched to the jail which was controlled by the army. I was put with 2 or 3 others in a jail cell which had a raised wooden floor and large wooden bars. There was a toilet at one end which consisted of a hole in the ground. They served us the same food that the guards received which wasn’t too bad since I hadn’t eaten for some time. We stayed here for two days.
We were then separated and put on two different ships. The officers were put on one ship and the enlisted men on another. There were five of us enlisted men and we were put together in the forward hold of a destroyer. IT was quite a voyage to Japan. A few of us got sick as the trip was very rough.
When we finally reached Japan, we landed at one of the main naval bases. We were marched through the training center. There were new recruits going through their training. We were taken into a building and there we waited for some time.
Later we were put on a train in a boxcar and traveled this way for a long time until we reached our destination. It was raining when we reached the interrogation camp of O’funa. We were taken from the train and we had to walk in the rain for some distance to the camp. When I had made my escape from Tang, the only piece of clothing I had on was a pair of pants so all the time we were walking I was very wet and cold. When we reached the camp my feet were very sore and numb from the cold.
They took us into a room where they gave each of us a dry shirt and pants and a pair of tennis shoes that were 3 sizes too small. This was all the clothing I ever received the whole time I was a P.O.W. They also gave us three blankets. We were then given a bowl of rice and some soup. We were then taken into the barracks which consisted of individual cells approximately six feet long and ten feet wide with a barred window at the end. The floor was raised and a grass mat three by six feet at one end. With the three blankets and the grass mat, this was to be my bed for the next six months.
The whole camp was built like a U-shape with the Japanese quarters in the middle and the barracks on each side. These were divided by a fence down the middle. The newer prisoners like myself were kept on one side and the older ones on the other. At first we were not even allowed to talk to each other but later on we were then allowed to talk to each other but not the older prisoners.
We were not there very long when we were given a demonstration on the older prisoners. They opened the gates that separated the two compounds and had the older prisoners lined up facing the guards. Some prisoners were singled out for certain offences and were beaten with a club across the buttocks until they collapsed. After watching this I knew what could be expected if we didn’t do what we were told.
In the beginning, we were each taken aside and interrogated. When it was my turn I was taken to a small room with a table and two chairs. A Japanese officer sat opposite me, he was very polite and could speak very good English. He would offer me a cigarette and ask me how everything was. He told me he had been educated in the U.S. He would ask me the same questions over and over as I would give him the same answers he would not accept. Then he let me leave. This only happened a few times I guess he figured I didn’t know anything.
The guards in this camp were very young and the ones that seemed to have some kind of education treated us halfway decent but the others you had to watch out for. It was winter and they would allow us to go out into the compound for exercise. The only clothing we had was what we had on our backs so they let us take a blanket with us. There we were all walking around in a circle with blankets over our heads looking like a bunch of old Mother Hubbards. During this winter we experienced at least two feet of snow on the ground. There was no heat in the cells and in fact you could see right through the cracks in the walls. So we talked the guards into letting several of us get together in one cell. This way the body heat would at least make it a little warmer. We would sit around in a circle and talk about food, food, food as our rations were getting smaller and smaller. We also discussed our personalities learning a lot about each other.
During this winter a young B-29 flier was shot down and brought to camp. He was badly wounded and soon he died as our medical facilities were like nothing. I volunteered as one of the group that was asked to bury him knowing that by doing this I would get a boiled potato as payment. We had to carry him some distance from the camp in deep snow to a hilly wooded area and then dig a hole and bury him. I will always remember this.
Because of the snow and the cold I don’t think I had any feeling in my feet for about four months. We would stamp our feet and walk as much as possible to keep the circulation going. In the beginning, we were given a bath once a week but that soon stopped. Boy did that bath feel good. We would wash up first with a small pan of water and soap, then climb into this large tub of real hot water and soak. This was the only time I could get feeling back into my feet.
Just before Christmas, we were given some Red Cross food boxes. This sure was a pleasant surprise. The boxes contained all sorts of things like soap, cigarettes, gum, a chocolate bar, powdered milk, dried prunes or raisins canned fish and meat, a small block of cheese, canned butter and a can opener. This in turn created a little trading and the bartering would begin. Some wanted the chocolate bars, others wanted cigarettes, etc. Me, I kept just what I had and rationed it to myself accordingly. We received three boxes in all over a period of time. They had more but they would not give them to us. We figured that they wanted them for themselves.
Later we were put over into the other compound as we were now considered the older prisoners as new ones were brought in. We heard that Pappy Boyington was in this camp and that he was assigned to the kitchen detail; therefore was able to obtain certain privileges. He would help us in every way he could.
One morning after our meal, we were all lined up in front of our barracks and accused of stealing some of the Red Cross food boxes that were stored at one end of the barracks. But of course, no one would admit to this crime so we all had to stay at attention in front of the barracks until someone would confess. We stayed this way all day without lunch, come dinner time, still nothing so they made us get into a pushup position and if anyone moved, a guard would hit you with a club across the buttocks. This didn’t seem to work so they took us back inside the barracks and lined us up in the center and asked again who was responsible. Still no answer. Then the guards took turns and whacked us across the buttocks with a large club several times each. Still no answer, so they quit and gave us our dinner.
The very next morning we were transferred to our next camp, O’mori, located on the shore of Tokyo Bay. Our trip to O’mori was by train again and Pappy Boyington was among us, so we sort of elected him to be in command of our little group. There were some B-29 fliers with us and when we arrived at the camp we were all put together in one building and still not allowed to see or talk with the other prisoners in the camp. We were kept like this as special prisoners all the time we were there.
The building I was in consisted of a dirt floor in the middle and raised wooden platforms on each side. On these wooden platforms is where I slept with the others. We all had diarrhea and I had developed Berri-berri, so between the two, I wasn’t in too good of shape. Our food by now consisted of a bucket of rice that was divided equally among us and that turned out to be half a cup each along with a small bowl of soup 3 times a day. When I say rice, I mean it was a combination of Barley, Milamaze, and rice. Once in a while the would supplement the soup with a few pieces of dried fish. We never ever received any meat.
After we had been in this camp for some time, Boyington and the rest of us agreed we should be doing something with our time so he talked the guards into letting us go out of the camp and plant vegetables in the bombed out areas of the city. So every morning and afternoon, those that were well enough would be marched out of camp into the bombed out areas and put to work.
We took along a five gallon can of water for making tea to have at our breaks. Most of the time, I volunteered to be the tea tobin, the person responsible for making the tea. I remember one time we were near a fish market and one of us managed to slip away and obtain some fish. In turn, I boiled them in the pot of water that was for the tea. We intended on bringing them back to camp and having them with our evening meal. Unfortunately it was discovered at the gate to the camp when we returned and it was taken away. The leaders of our group of course were punished.
Also while I was acting as tea tobin, I would wander away and scrounge around behind buildings that were still occupied and obtain choice bits of garbage like fish heads and pieces of vegetables. Another time when we were all on a tea break and sitting around talking, a stray old dog came around. We immediately discussed the possibility of eating this animal if only someone had the nerve to kill it. But of course, nobody would. I did everything possible to obtain extra food so as these vegetables became ripe, I would pick them and eat them raw when the guard wasn’t looking. When you’re starving, anything tastes good besides your normal ration of soup and rice.
While in O’mori, I experienced a large incendiary raid on the city of Yokohama. When the fireworks started, the Japanese boarded up all the windows in the barracks then they went to the air raid shelters. We were left exposed to the elements. It was frightening as bombs were dropping all around. Some fragments ended up in camp.
There was one consolation and that was we knew that the war was getting closer to the end. We knew what was happening all the time as bits of information would filter through the camp. We knew when the Atomic bomb had been dropped and we couldn’t believe the results.
One morning we woke up and it was very quiet. THERE WERE NO GUARDS AROUND!! Suddenly we realized something big was happening. We discovered there was only one guard in the whole camp. He told us the war was over, so we just took over the camp.
It was two weeks after this before our forces came and liberated us. During this time fighter planes and B-29 bombers flew over the camp and dropped tons of food and clothing. It got so bad this stuff was crashing through the buildings so we had to put a sign on the compound telling them to drop it outside of camp.
I was liberated two weeks after the end of hostilities and taken aboard the hospital ship Benevolence. I was put to bed and given blood and other medication. I was also given a meal of bacon and eggs. When I was captured I weighed 170 lbs. Now I was down to about 100 lbs so I was in no condition to be flown home. So later I was transferred to the hospital ship Rescue which was returning to the states. It took 21 days but I didn’t care. I knew I was going home! I arrived back in the states exactly 2 years since I left Oct. 25, 1943 and 1 year to the day our submarine was sunk Oct. 25, 1944. In Feb 1946 I chose to be discharged from the navy.
S/n Jesse B. DaSilva
Survivor of the Mighty TANG


groetjes,

[Sailor Steve]

Obviously I did not know that! Great story. Could you please post a link or give the name of the book? Not that I doubt it at all, but it's always nice to see it in print.

[Gino]

Obviously I did not know that! Great story. Could you please post a link or give the name of the book? Not that I doubt it at all, but it's always nice to see it in print.

There is no book that I know off where it is presented in.

I found it here: http://amh.freehosting.net/tang.html

groetjes,

[Sailor Steve]

His own personal page; that's cool too.

Thanks for that.

[Soviet_Sharpshooter]

That was an amazing read... this thread has actually made me look forward to killing some of those f&*king Japanese ships in Silent Hunter 4 :damn:

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm reading War Beneath the Sea and this account in the book said some of the beatings they received were from survivors of the ships they just sunk.

Quote: clubbings and kickings were being administered by the burned, mutilated survivors of our own handiwork, we found we could take it with less prejudice!

I'm not sure why this was omitted from the writings you have. Perhaps the year the book was written and sugar coated for some reason. At any rate, O'Kane is the highest in sunk vessels and was awarded the Medal of Honor. :rock:

[Cpt. Stewker]

Just an additional source of the TANG'S sinking. Also helps clarify what the quote listed by AVGWarhawk applies to.

"[This] story of [the] TANG's sinking comes from the report of her surviving Commanding Officer. A night surface attack was launched on 24 October 1944 against a transport which had been stopped in an earlier attack. The first torpedo was fired, and when it was observed to be running true, the second and last was loosed. It curved sharply to the port, broached, porpoised and circled. Emergency speed was called for and the rudder was thrown over. These measures resulted only in the torpedo striking the stern of TANG, rather than amidships.


The explosion was violent, and crewmembers as far forward as the Control Room received broken limbs. The boat went down by the stern with the after three compartments flooded. Of the nine officers and men on the bridge, three were able to swim through the night until picked up eight hours later. One officer escaped from the flooded Conning Tower, and was rescued with the others.


The submarine came to rest on the bottom at 180 feet, and the men in her crowded forward as the after compartments flooded. Publications were burned, and all assembled to the Forward Torpedo Room to escape. The escape was delayed by a Japanese patrol, which dropped charges, and started an electrical fire in the Forward Battery. Thirteen men escaped from the forward room, and by the time the last made his exit, the heat from the fire was so intense that the paint on the bulkhead was scorching, melting, and running down. Of the 13 men who escaped, only eight reached the surface, and of these but five were able to swim until rescued.


When the nine survivors were picked up by a destroyer escort, there were victims of TANG's previous sinkings on board, and they inflicted tortures on the men from TANG. With great humanity, O'Kane states, "When we realized that our clubbings and kickings were being administered by the burned, mutilated survivors of our own handiwork, we found we could take it with less prejudice."

-Quote from ussubvetsofworldwarii.org

[Gino]

At the end of this pdf file, you'll find a report from several survivors of the TANG.
It describes what happened etc. The rest of the doc gives a pretty goed idea what life on board a fleetsubmarine could be like (as far as sickness, injuries and death goes...)

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/duff.pdf

The HNSA (Historical Naval Ships Association) has more interesting docs on their website.

groetjes,

[Sailor Steve]

That's an amazing document! I've just been looking at pages 208-210: "Errors Made By Personnel Associated With The Firing Of Torpedoes". TDC operators entering wrong numbers; crewmen accidentally firing two at once; torpedomen incorrectly controlling intake of water to the tubes, causing sub to go below periscope depth and captain unable to see results.

Several cases of conning tower flooding due to crewman closing the hatch dogs before the hatch was shut all the way. One case of a crewman's coat getting caught in the hatch.

Wow!