Opinions wanted

[btaft]

Hello,

I am a long time fan of simulations (driving, flying, subs, etc). I am considering purchasing SB Pro. Money is for the most part not a problem but I don't necessarily want to throw away $125. I have read some of the reviews and they have perked my interest in the type of sim which I have yet to venture into.

1) Immersion: I had purchased SH3 and the one aspect I truely liked about it was that you felt like you were onboard a WWII sub. Does this hold true with SBPro, i.e. does it just feel real

2) Attention to detail: Another aspect I enjoy about a good sim is the level in which things are modeled in the "cockpit" control stations. In a weird way alot of times I enjoy learning how to use the sim more than actually using it in the long term. I still fondly remember the first time I set up a manual solution with no aids in SH3 (manually turning all of the dials etc) and sent the C3 to the bottom. This was even more exciting when I encountered by first BB in the campaign mode and didn't have nearly as much time as I had for the C3 moving at 8 kts :-)

3) Interface: This is kind of a continuation on the above question. SH3 took a little bit to learn but once you did the interface was very intuitive and easy to use in the heat of battle without turning into a RTS clickfest. How does SBPro's interface compare

4) AI: I realize a good portion of this is scripted. How is th AI of your platoon mates. Often I don't like to be the lead in a group of 4 planes or tanks. Is the AI good enough for me to take a secondary position and receive commands from the platoon commander or do I have to run the show.

5) Varaibility: One complaint I have had with SHII is that once you learned how to deal with convoys and lone ships, the sim really became a little boring. It became another exercise in getting in position for another run on another cargo ship that for the most part looked like the last one. I realize that SBPro is comprised of single missions that are scripted but do these scripted missions have enough variability in them such that the enemy AI may try different tactics from one attempt to the next, or if I round a bend in one try and find 4 T-72s can I expect to find the same 4 T-72s in the same position next time. Along these lines I feel well scripted single mission can often be more fun than some of the best dynamic campaigns

6) Hardware: The last question is in reference to hardware. I have a decent system (AMD X2 4400, 2GB RAM, ATI x1600 512MD). I need to repace my monitor and am considering a 20" LCD (1600 x 1200). Will SBPro run well (FPS of 30) at this resolution with this system with good-excellent details settings.

I realize that there are alot of questions here, but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,

Brett

[Skybird]

See your questions in the light of just one simple fact: you are not about buying a game, but a professional training tool designed by the needs and demands of the real military, and intended to compete against the hifi-simulator cabins the military has by super-aggressive pricing. This is what differs details and focus of SBP from that of normal game releases.

1.) Immersion is high, but it is however a diffrent kind of immersion than SH3 that was breathing the atmosphere of an ancient epoque.

2.) as you can read in my own review, only some tanks currently have detailed 3D interiors, namely the Leo2A5 which has the most detailed of these. However, at no cost I would like to need switching back from my HOTAS to mouseclicking in these 3D interiors, in handling it is too timeconsuming. You are not travelling in a sub with sometimes minutes of time passing by before youzr keyboard command is carried out, but in a tank - you may want to flip sights within splits of a second. DO NOT compare to SH3, tank warfare is totally different.

3.) I still wait for anyone complaining about the interface and keyboard commands being '"difficult". You can assign keyboards to your liking, btw. By far the best solution (and closest to the real thing, probably) is to have them on your HOTAS.

4.) Depends on the scripting. AI buddies will follow the lead tank, however at battle positions or depedning on conditonal route variables they may act indepednetly to counter hostile contacts, face incoming fire, find hull-down positions. AI is coinsidered to be very good in SBP, but the overall movement depends on the mission designer - and your own mission planning before playing. The player sues almost the same interafce for that like the mission designer. It is the same principles and mechanism at work. See my review were it is explained en detail.

5.) The sim has a mission editor, and a terrain editor. It already could make a diffrence to take a mission and change the vehicles for different ones. Currently there are three or four dozen additional missions uploaded at their download page. The functionality of the editor is extremely easy to handle, if the mission design will be good depends on the deoisgners tactical undersatanding and cleverness. It could be a stupüid gunnery range. It could be a highly flexible, mobile battle. It could be filled by surprises or not. Depends on the mission designer. I wrote the ditor is the best I have ever seen beside that of Flashpoint. I stick to that statement.

6.) Your hardware is fine.

Again, all your questions got dealt with in my review, and very detailed so. ;) If you want a simulation, this one is for you. If you want a game-sim with focus on the gamer's interests, be cautious. so far I haven't heared of a single guy who regret the buying. Only one I know who sold it - because he received a new assignement and had no more time left for SBP.

I also recommend the interview with Ssnake to be found in the ressources-sticky. He says some things baout the sim'S focus and future, and how it competes with the professional HiFi-Simulators.

[btaft]

Thanks Skybird.

I did read your review and found it very comprehensive. I just might give it a try.

[Skybird]

You could also ask in their main forum to get a greater diversity of opinions. ;)

[btaft]

I decided to bite the bullet. It is on its way. Now to get the new monitor :D

[ReM]

You got me excited as well Skybird.......I'm a sucker for good sims.......
Hope it is as good as advertised, I'll let you know

[Skybird]

I'll await your final judgement in a state of confidence and complete relaxation :D

[btaft]

Well it arrived today :-)

I have not had a chance to fully get into it, but I have started to read the manuals. First impression was ughhh.....no pictures

But then I read-on and was very pleased with how the tutorials and manuals were written.

I will probably wait till tommorrow so that I can get my new monitor and start to fire up the tutorials. I am assuming that the Leo2 is a good place to start since it seems to be the most comprehensive of all of the vehicles.

I also assume that I will need to download the two patches onthe web site?

[SubSerpent]

I also assume that I will need to download the two patches onthe web site?


No, you should only need to install the 2.73 update. I recently purchased my copy as well (on July 30th) and that was the only update that I needed to install besides the firmware update for the USB dongle from v1.0 to v1.10

[Skybird]

Be careful now.

As long as you have not received a disc of a new production release (I am not aware that they have released a second edition already), you NEED the first patch and then attach the second to that one. The second is NOT a standalone patch, but some kind of a hotfix for the first.

Check you version number after having installed from CD, if it is below 2.262 (most likely 2.251), you need the first patch as well.

That the second patch does not include the first one you can already see in the size of both patches. The first is 76 MB, the second only some 4 MB.

The dongle firmware update also is recommended, but maybe not really necessary as long as you face no problems with it.

Again:

CD version (first release) is 2.251, I heared no info that there is a second release,
1st patch is 2.262
2nd patch is 2.273

dongle firmware update is 1.10

[Skybird]

One point for Serpent.

I just got confirmation that they meanwhile have invested in a new master CD and remained silent about that, so later CDs already have the 1st patch attached to the code.

the criterion is the version number after installation, if it reads 2.262, you only need the second patch, if it is below that, you need the first patch as well.

[ReM]

The wife just called: it arrived by post today!!!!:rock:

Can't wait to get home and immerse myself into his one........
As soon as I've seen enough to make a honest judgement I'll post again.......
Later all!

[SubSerpent]

One point for Serpent.

I just got confirmation that they meanwhile have invested in a new master CD and remained silent about that, so later CDs already have the 1st patch attached to the code.

the criterion is the version number after installation, if it reads 2.262, you only need the second patch, if it is below that, you need the first patch as well.


That's what I said :know: :yep: :know: :yep:

[SubSerpent]

The new version even comes with a new vehicle not in the original version. It's a working, fully detailed, MoPED with an official "RED RYDER, CARBINE ACTION, TWO-HUNDRED SHOT RANGE MODEL AIR RIFLE" attached to the handle bar.

J/K

I asked the DEV team for it though and this is what they said, "You'll shoot your eye out kid". ;)

[btaft]

Well I was able to get it up and running. I have been messing with the tutorials (started with the M1 but haved switched to the Leo 2A5). My first impression so far is th eimmersion seems pretty good even in the relatively tame tutorials. My other observation is that aiming the gun sure does take alot of practice :D

I am enjoying it so far

[ReM]

I received my copy of Steel Beasts Pro Pe last friday.....the shipment took only five days ...
Needless to say I spent many hours this weekend to get to know my new sim!

Installation was a breeze; the version was indeed 2.262; only patch 2.273 needed to be applied.....
Although there was a slight problem with the dongle, support from esimgames to correct this was very swift ( I might say almost immediate) and effective.......I have nothing but very positive remarks for the great support they offer!
Atlhough I feared that I would not be able to enjoy this game to the fullest because of my system specs, I have not encountered any problems with the frame rate so far (my comp is an AMD 64 , 1 gig of ram, with an ATI 9600 pro, with outdated drivers). Game runs smooth as silk.

Although the manual is rather basic, the tutorials make up for the very sparse amount of information offered in the manual. The learning curve is quite steep, but a round of tutorials will get you up and running within a reasonable time. I have to second what btaft said about how difficult it is to actually hit your target... I used to play M1 Tank Platoon and this was lase and destroy- like taking candy from a baby! In SBPPE you have to be very concentrated to score hits; if this approaches reality I take of my hat off to all tank-gunners!

Although it can take quite a while to load a scenario or tutorial, the loading times compare favorably to SH IV!! The negative is that you tend to get killed quite quickly when you are a novice player like me, so I got to look at the loading screen a lot last weekend.

The fact that looking at the loading screen a lot didn't deter me from continuing, says it all about the immersion factor of this game.....I can't wait to start up the game again when I finish work and when the kids are safe in bed.

Although the graphics are not state-of-the-art, they are adequate enough to give you a realistic feel. The explosions don't exactly remind you of Hollywood either-, but I have seen turrets fly occasionaly.
I especially found the landscapes to be very good-looking; they give a definite feel of depth and distance....very convincing...

The sounds are nicely done as well; when I was driving my M1 Abrams over a highway, it sounded just right.....I could almost feel it...

The missions that come standard with the game are rather hard for a beginner; I downloaded some easier scenarios from the Steel Beasts website and I had a lot of fun with them....I am sure I will get to enjoy the other scenarios as well, as soon as I get more familiar with more complex planning and manoeuvring from the map which offers many options. This game is so deep that it will take quite some time to discover its full potential; let alone enjoy it! The amount of orders that can be given from the map screen is incredible....yet it all is very organised and logically placed....if I do get slaughtered it is because of faulty leadership and planning, not because the game offers too few options. It was also a very pleasant surprise that you are able to drive and operate Bradleys and Hummers and othert lighter vehicles as well......this enables you to play the recon phase of operations as well.....which adds tremendously to the immersion factor.

I found SBPPE to be a very complex and very unforgiving piece of work....when I add the hefty price tag to this, I can understand that a lot of people will give it a pass.......for this kind of money you can buy at least a couple of games, if games is what you are looking for.....
SBPPE is not a game; it lacks the eye candy to be considered a game and as stated before is very unforgiving...it doesn't give a damn wheter you live or die.....
But if you like tanks and don't mind being tossed around like a ragdoll the first outings, and are willing to invest time (and money) in mastering the art of war at the tactical level, then SBPPE will not disappoint you....there is also the Steel Beasts community, not unlike the one over here at Subsim which I have praised in the past...they bring out new scenarios, mods and terrains all the time which will give you even more to play with....and if you wanna give it a try you can also use the in-game editor...build your own battlefield!
Although I said I don't consider SBPPE a game, I had fun with it; and that is what it all comes down to.

[Skybird]

You said the default missions are tough, and some of them are indeed, and they are also quite huge in size. I recommend you learn to use the editor early, and edit them to your linking (change playable vehicles to you favourite tanks, for example). Also, focus on missions where you only play one platoon alone, or add an occasional reinforcement. It takes some time to get a feeling for right timing in SBP, reading the maps, and see tactical surprises in advance, so don't be too demanding to yourself. Practice a lot, and piece by piece remove again what you have added before as help. there are two missions that I recommend to play often and repeatedly, until you master them blindly, that is especially the "Platoon Recconaissance" that will randomize the enemy setup so that it plays differently each time (I edited it to allow per trigger what kind of tanks I use for the match), and the "Stryker Ambush", that allow you to train management of a very small, mobile force. The Byto-scenarios are not too difficult too, but already very immersive, and larger scale operation. These three are my favourites of the default missions that come with SBP.


if you use a HOTAS, spend some time and thought on the command profile you develope. A clever setup really pays off. You can find yourself in need of wanting to do things as quickly like a dogfighting combat pilot, eventually, and without thinking about how to do them.

[ReM]

I finally grasped the idea of dynamic lead in the Leo and the aiming system in the M1.....this does make life a lot easier.....I am not saying that aiming became a breeze all of a sudden, but now a 80% score is realistic instead of the 20-something percentage I used to have.
I tried the Byto and Platoon recce scenarios as you suggested and they were fun indeed....I especially liked the Platoon recce mission....the landscape looks very German !
It ain't going fast but I'm getting there.....