When should the first career year's "virgin patrol" begin?

[Safe-Keeper]

In other words, in Silent Hunter III your first patrol was 1st of September 1939. What should it be in Silent Hunter IV?

If it's slightly before Pearl Harbour, it could contain some other missions such as peace-time coast guard-like patrols, life-saving, etc.

If it's after Pearl Harbour, you're right in the action, but I'd still like the events of Pearl and on to be in. Like when I patrolled in early September 1939 in Grey Wolves and received radio messages about hostilities and watched city after city turn red.

As for me, I vote before Pearl Harbour.

What do you think? When should the game start?

[DeepSix]

If you're based at Manila, it should start Dec. 8-11; if you're based at Pearl, it should be December 11, and you should be on Gudgeon. Dec. 13 for Pollack, Dec. 14 for Plunger, Dec. 18 for Pompano. There were only four boats "on patrol" prior to Dec. 7 and they were conducting "simulated" patrols off Wake and Midway. There were five boats at sea on their way in to Pearl, but officially they were still on shakedown, and IIRC only 1 encountered the Japanese (Plunger was bombed by an airplane that probably was Japanese).

[Edit - I guess you could theoretically start on Dec. 7 and be at the sub base at Pearl, shooting at aircraft with your AA. Tautog was the first to destroy anything Japanese]

[Safe-Keeper]

I also think the start setting should be a bit more than just years, seeing it's just from 1942-1945, rather than 1939-1945. Let the player select it month-wise or something.

Making it different based on flotilla or boat's an idea, though.

[Threadfin]

I'd like to see the player be able to choose his start month and year. The career would then last 2-10 patrols, randomly determined, with possible lengthy breaks, to simulate maybe a skipper who was relieved, but then given another command.

I don't want to have the ability to fight from December '41 to the end of the war (though I can choose to end my careers whenever I want to I suppose)

So if I choose to take command in December of '41 my career as a sub skipper would be over by '43 in most cases before I was relieved.

I think Dec 7th would be a fine earliest possible career date.

[DeepSix]

Sort of depends on whether or not the devs incorporate a realistic career length or not. If they do, the idea of choosing your starting month might well work. It would accentuate the months before the Mark XIV was sorted out vs. the months after. It might also work to choose what type of sub you want and let that be the basis for determining when you start. In other words, if you take an S-boat, you'll start in Manila; if you want Tench, you might start in the fall of 1944, etc. Interesting idea....

[Safe-Keeper]

I see both sides of the "realistic career lenght" issue. I realize no skipper fought all the way from 1942 to 1945, or from 1939 to 1945 from that matter, but on the other hand it's a great experience to try to make it through the whole conflict. I don't know.

[NEON DEON]

I see both sides of the "realistic career lenght" issue. I realize no skipper fought all the way from 1942 to 1945, or from 1939 to 1945 from that matter, but on the other hand it's a great experience to try to make it through the whole conflict. I don't know.

Well I suppose if you only made it about the skipper and not the boat. I would like the option to model Skipper career or boat career since this is a submarine simulation. A number of boats went almost the entire war. Even the Cruiser subs. Nautilus and Narwhal went into 1945. Also, US subs often transfered crew members so as not to have an entirely green crew running a boat.

[DeepSix]

Just a thought - although I expressed elsewhere that I didn't care for more cutscenes, I assume there'll be one, and it occurred to me that one logical subject for a start-up film could be the Pearl Harbor attack. For instance, you could witness the attack on Battleship Row and end with Tautog's AA kill. That'd seem a good way to capture the "story" of the game - the big picture of the war and the focus on subs. Anyway, after that you choose what you want to do after that (choose Manila, Pearl, boat type, month, year, etc.).

I still think that if you start a career at the beginning of the war - regardless of whether the game uses realistic career length or not - your first patrol should begin on a historically accurate date. This is especially true for boats departing Pearl Harbor - historically, the damage had to be assessed and cleaned up somewhat before Pacific Fleet - having after all been caught by surprise - got its ducks in a row.

[Egan]

Something like JScone's Shcommander already built in would be good. realistic patrol lengths, selct the moth you start, crewmen transferred off to new constructions etc. The devs could learn a LOT from that mod about what to add to a career.

Start with a patrol round about The date of Pearl and take it from there is what I say. The Original SH had it right, I think.

[Wilko]

The attack on Pearl Harbour should happen during your first patrol.

I voted that cause it just seemed to be the most logical time to start but I will no doubt try it from all different times, especially the later years when you get the nice subs :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

In SHI you could start from any available command, beginning right after the December 7 attack. The sub you got depended upon where you started, and you could start at ANY month of the war. Hawk's Silent Hunter Utilities let you change what boat you had, so you could run Narwahl or the like.

SH3 Commander fixes SHIII so you get an actual historical sub based on the Flotilla. I would hope SHIV will allow us to do the same, or at least be open for an SH4 Commander.

[Safe-Keeper]

SH3 Commander fixes SHIII so you get an actual historical sub based on the Flotilla. I would hope SHIV will allow us to do the same, or at least be open for an SH4 Commander.90% of the features of SH3 Commander should've come with SH3 itself. Hopefully they'll come with SHIV.

[don1reed]

It'd be dang nice to pick up your boat 'n crew on the eastcoast and nav through the Panama Canal to head west, whatever the date.

[DeepSix]

You know, that's an excellent idea!:hmm: Never thought of that; Calvert talks about doing that with the Jack.

[Drebbel]

I would say more than 1 patrol before Pearl. Give you time to train crew, pick up boats, or even go on patrol in peace time.

I guess you could theoretically start on Dec. 7 and be at the sub base at Pearl, shooting at aircraft with your AA.

I like the idea, but pls not make the war start in that base by default. Make it possible that you can be in another base at Dec-7th as well.

If the dev-team can make the code fast enough they could even make me spot the japanese attack fleet, or atleast have the group of plane fly overhead

Sort of depends on whether or not the devs incorporate a realistic career length or not.

Would be a rip off if this could not be disabled imho. So pls devs include a realistic carreer length, but make it optional.

Also pls include a setting that disables the game permantly after getting killed on patrol :p

It'd be dang nice to pick up your boat 'n crew on the eastcoast and nav through the Panama Canal to head west, whatever the date.

Nice idea, I like it. But I am not sure I want the dev-team spent a lot of tim moddeling east coast ports and the Panama Canal.

Right now my biggest hope is that they will include Darwin and use that for topping up fuel of boats that are based in Fremantle and are heading to their patrol area. I also hope they will add a realistic Colombo, Tandjong Priok and Jakarta, and and and.....

[Drebbel]

Never thought of that; Calvert talks about doing that with the Jack.

? what do you mean ? :-?

[Sailor Steve]

He's replying to the post directly above his: picking up the boat on the east coast and taking it to the Pacific via the Panama Canal. I like that idea, but that Canal would require a lot of modelling.

I also like your idea of starting at a different base, but the options would be limited to Cavite (Manila), Long Beach, San Francisco or Seattle. I'm not sure which of those had bases; I'm sure not all of them. Maybe San Diego. Again, a lot of modelling for something we'd only use once.

[don1reed]

Mare Island built 16 wartime boats, (probably most of the highest ranked, i.e., TANG)
Portsmouth, NH built 70 wartime boats,
Electric Boat Co., Groton, CT built 74 wartime boats.

...144 boats made the Panama Canal transit...
...nearly every boat made it back to Mare Island for refit.

...maybe the MODDERS could make a ditch like the Kiel Canal?

[Threadfin]

Don't forget Manitowoc and Cramp (Philly). Mare Island is in California and therefore would not need to go through the canal to reach the Pacific, but I'm sure that's not what you were saying :).

[Drebbel]

Hmm, looks like the P-canal is a must-have afterall

[DeepSix]

Never thought of that; Calvert talks about doing that with the Jack.

? what do you mean ? :-?

? are you being obtuse ?

No offense, Dreb, but you seem to have read some of my posts above as requests for features when actually they are meant as discussions of possible features. For instance, I never said I wanted the game to start in Pearl on the 7th, I just said it could. I agree, Pearl should be a choice. So should Manila....

I dunno; maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

[Drebbel]

Yes judge, this is all one big misunderstanding :lol:

[don1reed]

Roger that,Threadfin, I used Mare Island to show that nearly every boat involved in the war made it there for refit. For those who play at 100%, they'll probably want to take their boat under the "Golden Gate" to get to the East side of San Pablo Bay:
http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/wwIIbayarea/maps.htm

You're right, I didn't count Manitowoc or Philly, but, just as a quick look, the numbers were impressive.

[Threadfin]

Yep, Mare Island was the spot for overhaul. Techincally 'refits' were done at frontline bases, but I'm splitting hairs. One of the guys who survived Tang's sinking had no sooner gotten the words out "Set course for the Golden Gate!" when the torpedo struck and he was flat on the deck.

Cramp only made a few boats, and they were universally regarded as subpar in quality.

[Tonnage_Ace]

I say several patrols before the Infamous Day because that way, you form a bond and affinity for the Americans while you head out to sea, roaming from cabin to cabin and interacting with your crew. When the 7th comes, international players will have more sympathy for what happened on that day.

[NEON DEON]

I am thinking 1939. A what if campaign.

What if FDR, knowing that war with Germany was going to happen no matter what, did more than Lend Lease. What if he used his sub forces against the Germans in the Med and Baltic under the guise of being British? It could push sub technology and tactics dates forward like the "Magnetic exploder fiasco" would have been corrected before Pearl.

[Justin Prince]

Though this may be a wish, and just a wish, I'd like to see the East Coast too, but from a different perspective.

I think it would be neat to do Atlantic patrols, as was done historically. You could port over all the Europe stuff from SHIII, much like was done in DC (taking all of SHIIs stuff). Then, you could have an excuse to have the Barracudas. Do antisub patrols during drumbeat with an S boat (not antisub as in DW, but antisub as in spot a Uboat and try an get a shot off, as was done historically). Cruise around North Africa in a Balao. Granted, it would be more boring and not as action oriented as the PTO, but I think it would be fairly cool.

For a bit of fiction, Do patrols off Norway with Fleet subs, trying to catch the German raiders off guard.

I would like it, as it would allow (if the devs did it) the use of the Barracuda class boats (we had them in SH1, but historically they were used only in the Atlantic and to defend the Panama Canal) and the Mackeral/Marlin class Coastal Submarines. Maybe even the old O class submarines, used primarily for training or Atlantic Patrols. Perhaps, then, you could work it as your first patrol (if starting late war) is on an O class submarine in the Atlantic in a training patrol (where you might find German U boats, or something), and then get assigned to new construction that you have to take from the east coast, through the canal, to Mare Island. THen your third patrol would go to say the Central Pacific and then back to Pearl.

Or, as another excuse to work it in, say you start on a Salmon/Sargo in 1942. By '44, they were training boats. So have orders at Pearl read "To USS Sturgeon proceed to Norfolk VA via Panama Canal, arriving on or about XX, XXXX, 1944, whereapon Lt. Cmdr. _______ will assume command of Gato class USS Wahoo" Of course have an option to skip it, but be able to play the patrol both for fun, training, sight seeing, and hey who knows.... maybe you'll find a U boat lurking off one of the ports, a chance for one last kill before the boat is relegated to training.

At the very least, we might be able to satisfy those wanting British subs: Use S boats (with the refitted con) to simulate those Lake boats handed over to Britain in 1942 (until 1944), and do patrols off Norway in them.

On to the topic, I would like it if your first patrol was pre Pearl Harbor, but I understand that many would not like it.

My opinion: Choose date and time to start the career. If it is December 1941, then let it start at the first action the boat saw: I.e. if it is a Pearl Boat, let it start on December 7, 1941, and 7:55AM. You are the C/O, decide if you want to stay (or are forced to stay), or if you want to break for the open sea. Then have it randomized, where on December 8 you are sent orders, either to begin a Patrol off Japan, or stay in Hawaiian waters. Script the battleships getting sunk in their order, the Shaw blowing up, Cassin and Downes getting wrecked, but leave everything else to chance.


If you start at Manila, then let your patrol (see my top 10 SH4 items post) start either on Dec. 11 as history, or start as soon as their is an air raid.


I think it would be cool to randomize Pearl Harbor a bit, so that the attack happens on December 7, but not necessarily at 8am. Have it so that you have (repairable) engine damage and can't sail for an hour or so (to prevent historical hindsight). Then, as you prepare to get underway, you begin intercepting messages from the Ward, get sub to sub communication about annoying army planes, and then finally "Air raid, Pearl Harbor. This is No Drill!" As planes starting bombing and strafing.

That said, have it hard coded so that if your boat is sunk, you are not killed or penalized. Then, as your engines come on line, either sortie out or keep your guns firing. All the while, be mindful of your subnets or Japanese Midget boats in the harbor.

While I (personally) don't want the game to treat Pearl Harbor unrealistically, I would like to feel like I am there and am just as frantic, surprised, angry, and powerless as everybody else there was. I don't want to feel like I'm on an on rails crappy FPS level (by just manning the gun), nor do I want to feel like I'm watching a cutscene. I want to feel like I am at Pearl Harbor, without the benefit of hindisight and that I can not only have an impact, but that it may either keep history as it was or make it worse (i.e. catching one of the Jap carriers, firing a spread, and then realizing it is the Enterprise.... thank God for the Mk XIV torpedo :up:)