Good book on modern naval warfare?

[WargamerScott]

Now that I am firmly hooked on Dangerous Waters :D , I would like to read a good fiction book on modern naval warfare. I read (many times) RED STORM RISING and loved it. Are there any similar books out there I should consider? Or is RSR still the best when it comes to modern combat on the high seas?

Thanks!

[Herman]

Try "The War that Never Was", by Michael Palmer. It has many striking similarities to RSR.

[Bill Nichols]

Here's my short list of modern sub warfare novels, in no particular order:

"Typhoon", by Robin White

Any of the 'Silent Service' series by H. Jay Ryker

"Kilo Class" and "Nimitz Class", by Patrick Robinson

"Dangerous Ground", by Larry Bond

"Cold is the Sea", by Edward L. Beach

"To Kill the Potemkin" and "Typhoon", by Mark Joseph (look for these from used book dealers)

"Voyage of the Devilfish" and "Attack of the Seawolf" by Michael DiMercurio (These are DiMercurio's first two sub novels. He's written many more since then, but I only recommend these two. Note: DiMercurio's non-fiction work, "Idiot's Guide to Submarines", is excellent.)

and,

"Hunt for Red October" (of course)

[WargamerScott]

Try "The War that Never Was", by Michael Palmer. It has many striking similarities to RSR.


I read that and enjoyed it. The only criticism I have is that at the outset we are told that it is based upon a wargame, but the author never explores that more. I would have found it interesting if he broke from the war story to to explore what happened with the wargame participants as they played. Oh well---I'll leave that for my book. :D

[WargamerScott]

Here's my short list of modern sub warfare novels, in no particular order:

"Typhoon", by Robin White

Any of the 'Silent Service' series by H. Jay Ryker

"Kilo Class" and "Nimitz Class", by Patrick Robinson

"Dangerous Ground", by Larry Bond

"Cold is the Sea", by Edward L. Beach

"To Kill the Potemkin" and "Typhoon", by Mark Joseph (look for these from used book dealers)

"Voyage of the Devilfish" and "Attack of the Seawolf" by Michael DiMercurio (These are DiMercurio's first two sub novels. He's written many more since then, but I only recommend these two. Note: DiMercurio's non-fiction work, "Idiot's Guide to Submarines", is excellent.)

and,

"Hunt for Red October" (of course)

I heard KILO CLASS has been optioned for a movie.

How is DEEP SOUND CHANNEL by Joe Buff?

At the moment, I decided to revist RSR. Don't know if I will stay with it though, as I read it 8 times already!

[Bill Nichols]

Here's my short list of modern sub warfare novels, in no particular order:

"Typhoon", by Robin White

Any of the 'Silent Service' series by H. Jay Ryker

"Kilo Class" and "Nimitz Class", by Patrick Robinson

"Dangerous Ground", by Larry Bond

"Cold is the Sea", by Edward L. Beach

"To Kill the Potemkin" and "Typhoon", by Mark Joseph (look for these from used book dealers)

"Voyage of the Devilfish" and "Attack of the Seawolf" by Michael DiMercurio (These are DiMercurio's first two sub novels. He's written many more since then, but I only recommend these two. Note: DiMercurio's non-fiction work, "Idiot's Guide to Submarines", is excellent.)

and,

"Hunt for Red October" (of course)

I heard KILO CLASS has been optioned for a movie.

How is DEEP SOUND CHANNEL by Joe Buff?

At the moment, I decided to revist RSR. Don't know if I will stay with it though, as I read it 8 times already!

Don't forget to try my Red Storm Rising campaign for Dangerous Waters (you can download it from my site).

Re. Joe Buff -- Some people like his books. I didn't put them on my list because I have problems swallowing his precept (America is at war with the neo-Axis coalition of Germany and South Africa). :-?

[Oberon]

There's also Hostile Waters....ok...it's not fictional...but it's still a damn good book.
Bill's list just about covers it, although there are a couple of good sub moments in Cauldron and Red Phoenix by Larry Bond.
Haven't read Vortex though so I don't know if there are any sub moments in that.

[Bill Nichols]

There's also Hostile Waters....ok...it's not fictional...but it's still a damn good book.


Actually, there's quite a lot of fiction in Hostile Waters ;)

For a more accurate report on the loss of K-219, read this:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_28/yankee.html

[Neptunus Rex]

It may have been mentioned before, but try 'Rising Tide, Untold Story of the Russian Submarines that Fought the Cold War' by Gary E. Weir and Walter J. Boyne, 2003, Penguin Books publishers, Non-fiction.

[WargamerScott]

There's also Hostile Waters....ok...it's not fictional...but it's still a damn good book.
Bill's list just about covers it, although there are a couple of good sub moments in Cauldron and Red Phoenix by Larry Bond.
Haven't read Vortex though so I don't know if there are any sub moments in that.

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D

[TLAM Strike]

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D Scott don't panic, but I think you're been transported back to the year 1997! :rotfl:

[WargamerScott]

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D Scott don't panic, but I think you're been transported back to the year 1997! :rotfl:

Wait...I missed the movie by 9 years?!? How did that happen? LOL!

I saw the movie comment in an Amazon review. It didn't mention the date of the movie release! :-j

Anybody see it? How was it?

Speaking of movies, I think I'll watch The Bedford Incident tonight. Great film. Richard Widmark at his best. I think I would like to try and craft a DW scenario using this film one day.

[DAB]

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D Scott don't panic, but I think you're been transported back to the year 1997! :rotfl:

Wait...I missed the movie by 9 years?!? How did that happen? LOL!

I saw the movie comment in an Amazon review. It didn't mention the date of the movie release! :-j

Anybody see it? How was it?

Speaking of movies, I think I'll watch The Bedford Incident tonight. Great film. Richard Widmark at his best. I think I would like to try and craft a DW scenario using this film one day.

Re: Hostile Waters. Lord, that one is in my Video Cassette collection - so thats saying something.

Its a good film, not a thriller or generic submarine film, but it is a very good story about people in these situations - no stereotyping like you get in other films.


Re: Bedford Incident. Go for it, just as long as you don't give away the ending. There should be a law against people / reveiwers posting what happens.

When you first see the end of that film, it makes you jump right out of your skin

[Bill Nichols]

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D Scott don't panic, but I think you're been transported back to the year 1997! :rotfl:

Wait...I missed the movie by 9 years?!? How did that happen? LOL!

I saw the movie comment in an Amazon review. It didn't mention the date of the movie release! :-j

Anybody see it? How was it?

Speaking of movies, I think I'll watch The Bedford Incident tonight. Great film. Richard Widmark at his best. I think I would like to try and craft a DW scenario using this film one day.

Re: Hostile Waters. Lord, that one is in my Video Cassette collection - so thats saying something.

Its a good film, not a thriller or generic submarine film, but it is a very good story about people in these situations - no stereotyping like you get in other films.


Re: Bedford Incident. Go for it, just as long as you don't give away the ending. There should be a law against people / reveiwers posting what happens.

When you first see the end of that film, it makes you jump right out of your skin

Bedford Incident - Read the book, it ends much differently from the movie (better ending IMO). :|\

[TLAM Strike]

I just read that Hostile Waters was purchased for HBO and is going to be a cable movie. Guess I'll just wait for the movie. :D Scott don't panic, but I think you're been transported back to the year 1997! :rotfl:

Wait...I missed the movie by 9 years?!? How did that happen? LOL!

I saw the movie comment in an Amazon review. It didn't mention the date of the movie release! :-j

Anybody see it? How was it?

Speaking of movies, I think I'll watch The Bedford Incident tonight. Great film. Richard Widmark at his best. I think I would like to try and craft a DW scenario using this film one day. I guess you didn't see this on Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ERXAY/qid=1136385721/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8698541-5754369?n=507846&s=dvd&v=glance

[WargamerScott]

I guess you didn't see this on Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ERXAY/qid=1136385721/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8698541-5754369?n=507846&s=dvd&v=glance

Ha! No I didn't! The movie had a big cast I see....

[WargamerScott]

Bedford Incident - Read the book, it ends much differently from the movie (better ending IMO). :|\

PM me with the real ending. I am curious how it differs.

[Bill Nichols]

Bedford Incident - Read the book, it ends much differently from the movie (better ending IMO). :|\

PM me with the real ending. I am curious how it differs.

Instead of a PM, here's the book's ending so everyone can know:

After the US destroyer sinks the Russian sub, the NATO liason officer (a former German U-boat commander who has been reliving his wartime experiences while the DD was hunting the Russian sub) goes crazy, takes his pistol, and fires it into a warhead in the ship's magazine. The magazine explodes and kills everyone onboard. :x

[WargamerScott]

Hmm...not so sure that I liked that ending. I think the movie ending might be better.


I watched it again the other night and it struck me how much the movie is yet another interpretation of Moby Dick. Why does every movie that deals with naval warfare feel obliged to reinterpret that great tale? Widmark had his Russian sub, Master and Commander had the French warship as the whale, Robert Mitchum had Kurt Jurgens' sub in the Enemy Below, heck, even Kirk had Khan! :D I think Crimson Tide was the only movie that didn't feel obliged to provide a white whale. Of course, that film was based on the Caine Mutiny and/or Mutiny on the Bounty.

[DAB]

Hmm...not so sure that I liked that ending. I think the movie ending might be better.


I watched it again the other night and it struck me how much the movie is yet another interpretation of Moby Dick. Why does every movie that deals with naval warfare feel obliged to reinterpret that great tale? Widmark had his Russian sub, Master and Commander had the French warship as the whale, Robert Mitchum had Kurt Jurgens' sub in the Enemy Below, heck, even Kirk had Khan! :D I think Crimson Tide was the only movie that didn't feel obliged to provide a white whale. Of course, that film was based on the Caine Mutiny and/or Mutiny on the Bounty.

The sea chase is the classic story...but the focus is not about the chase. Its a mechanism to put the protagonist under stress and bring out his or her character.

[Grayback]

I heard KILO CLASS has been optioned for a movie.

That's Hollywood for you. I think that "Potemkin" is easily among the best, and also one of the one's most likely to survive the transition to screen. Hollywood has its own version of the GIUK gap, which results in even decent books looking horrible on screen. So who's work is chosen to make the perilous sojourn to popcorn land? Only one book written by one of the worst and most annoying contestants in the technothriller world, an artless loudmouth with a poor record for fact checking, plotting, character development or subtle delivery. I can think of a half-dozen writers who deserve to be wined & dined in LaLa Land, and Robinson isn't one of them. My only hope is that they'll pull a "Raise the Titanic", and we'll be spared any more of his books for at least 25 years.