OT: New book: Red Star Rogue

[mike_espo]

I was at borders the other day, and was surprised to see this title:

This book, which is non-fiction claims that the lost Soviet Golf in 1968, K-219, was in fact, on a Rogue mission to attack the U.S. with nuclear weapons! I believe Pearl Harbor was the target.... :huh: :o :huh: :o :hmm:

I don't believe it....I did not purchase the book, being over 25USD...Ill wait till paperback comes out in a few months.....

Anybody get this title???

[Kapitan]

no but it is highly likely that golf submarine K129 turned rouge and attempted a missile launch on the US. even some russians claim that this theroy is true

however a week later the submarine seawolf sailed into yokasuka japan suffering damage to her bow as a result of a collission of some kind.

admiral victor dygalo (man who launched the first russian SLBM) said and insisted and still insists to this day that seawolf sank K129.

its highly likely that K129 did turn rouge because she was over 300 miles off course and that cant realy be accidental

[Captain Nemo]

I remember seeing a documentary some time ago where this incident was mentioned. Dr John Craven (former Chief Scientist of the US Navy's Special Projects Office) seemed to support the theory that the K-129 was on a rogue mission to attack Pearl Harbour.

Nemo

[Bill Nichols]

I just bought this book, yesterday. The first couple of chapters are pretty good... hope the author follows-through. :arrgh!:

[Snakeeyes]

You've got to be kidding me?

It seems to me that if you were going to attack Pearl you would use more than just a beaten up old Golf class. Didn't she pack three Serb class missiles?

My leading theory was always that she had a battery explosion after a hydrogen leak. Researches say she was surfaced at night recharging when the entire rear battery compartment blew through her hull.

The only evidence to support that she was on the surface were the remains of a sailor in foul-weather gear.

She sank like a ton of bricks.


I guess anything is possible but Soviet captains were under such tight control from Moscow... I don't know if it was possible for missiles to be launched WITHOUT the codes transmitted from high command.

What do you think Bill?

[Snakeeyes]

no but it is highly likely that golf submarine K129 turned rouge and attempted a missile launch on the US. even some russians claim that this theroy is true

however a week later the submarine seawolf sailed into yokasuka japan suffering damage to her bow as a result of a collission of some kind.

admiral victor dygalo (man who launched the first russian SLBM) said and insisted and still insists to this day that seawolf sank K129.

its highly likely that K129 did turn rouge because she was over 300 miles off course and that cant realy be accidental

Kapitan... she was there because that was her standard patrol box in range of her missiles. It was not the first time a Hotel had been there... Sosus monitored them continuously. I have never heard that there was anything different from this patrol or the boat's behavior from all the others (aside from it sinking of course :) )

[Kapitan]

the golf class had to surface to fire missiles who is to say they attempted a luanch and the on board booby traps went off and a sailor was sent to exinguish the fire ?

golf hotel and zulu's echo's julliettes all had to surface to fire missiles and where she sank puts her in a good position to fire on pearl harbour

russian missiles have on board traps incase some one does try to launch without proper proceadure the missile explodes causeing the submarine to be heavily damaged or total loss in this case it was a total loss.

the whole is supposed to have ripped from missile numberr three back wards so missile number three could be the one they tried to launch also note one of the missiles was missing from its tube at the time project jennier came underway

[Snakeeyes]

the golf class had to surface to fire missiles who is to say they attempted a luanch and the on board booby traps went off and a sailor was sent to exinguish the fire ?

golf hotel and zulu's echo's julliettes all had to surface to fire missiles and where she sank puts her in a good position to fire on pearl harbour

russian missiles have on board traps incase some one does try to launch without proper proceadure the missile explodes causeing the submarine to be heavily damaged or total loss in this case it was a total loss.

the whole is supposed to have ripped from missile numberr three back wards so missile number three could be the one they tried to launch also note one of the missiles was missing from its tube at the time project jennier came underway\

Oh Puullllllease..... You watch too many X-files reruns. Those missles were so unreliable they WERE the booby traps!

:rotfl:

[Overkill]

After you've read a few more chapters please let us know if it's worth buy'n, Bill. I visited the book's website a few weeks ago and it seem'd purty interest'n. :D

[Kapitan]

snake the missiles were crap what you expect every nuclear weapon is booby trapped even the new american tridents are booby trapped its a safe gaurd from rouge launches.

every one knows that sheesh

as for those missiles on the golf its plausible and logical but weather or not it happend we will never know

[Snakeeyes]

snake the missiles were crap what you expect every nuclear weapon is booby trapped even the new american tridents are booby trapped its a safe gaurd from rouge launches.

every one knows that sheesh

as for those missiles on the golf its plausible and logical but weather or not it happend we will never know

riiiiiiight..... and the aliens from the crop circles are coming to kill us all too.

[Kapitan]

well thats what ive read about missiles they are booby trapped to prevent un authorised launches perhapse an SSBN nut can help us ask ramius he should know

[Bill Nichols]

I'm about half-way through now... A good yarn, but the author's story about a rogue Soviet sub is full of far-fetched suppositions, conspiracy-theory, incorrect facts and unsubstantiated claims. If you approach this book as a technothriller, it's much better than DiMercurio ;) . But, starting at about page 72, don't trust anything the author says as fact.... :down:

[Overkill]

Thanks for the feedback, Bill. :D

[Captain Nemo]

the golf class had to surface to fire missiles who is to say they attempted a luanch and the on board booby traps went off and a sailor was sent to exinguish the fire ?

golf hotel and zulu's echo's julliettes all had to surface to fire missiles and where she sank puts her in a good position to fire on pearl harbour

Kapitain, you are wrong with regard to the Golf II having to surface to fire it's missiles. The Golf II class boats (Project 629A) were upgrades from the original Golf subs. In March 1958 the development of a new missile launch system D-4 with R-21 missiles was approved. It was planned to replace the D-2 launch system and allowed underwater missile firings. The R-21 missiles could be fired from a depth of 40-50 m at a speed of up to 4 knots at intervals of 5 minutes.

Nemo

[Kapitan]

K129 was not a golf 2 submarine infact she was a golf I

moscow formaly denies K129 golf exists dr kravan notes on missile in the sail of the sub missing noting that this is golf I

golf II has a sort of hump like a normal SSBN after its sail with K129 this is not the case

of all the golfs most were converted K129 was not and so was a few others

[Captain Nemo]

K129 was not a golf 2 submarine infact she was a golf I

Strange, the author of the book says it was a Golf II but the reason it tried to fire a missile on the surface was because it was trying to imitate a Chinese Golf I so that China got the blame for flattening Hawaii. However if true, this ploy would have failed because SOSUS had already picked up the K-129 and classified it as a Golf II sub. Perhaps the author is talking a load of tosh anyway and it was a Golf I.

Nemo

[Kapitan]

time the K129 went down golf II was under going tesing it took years before they even raise part of K129 and when crevan said missile missing in the tube in the sail that immediatly gives it awway as a golf I

[Grayback]

well thats what ive read about missiles they are booby trapped to prevent un authorised launches perhapse an SSBN nut can help us ask ramius he should know

The book claims that the hijackers were KGB troops that had access to nuclear weapons...but then has the troops trying to bypass safeguards which seems to contradict the thesis that the sub was hijacked by troops having access to nukes. RSR has the same problem as Berlitz's "The Philadelphia Experiment" - where researchers claim to have uncovered a deep dark secret that has otherwise eluded everybody else. How did Berlitz manage to find the secret scientist who knew all about the Philadelphia Experiment? How did the authors of RSR uncover a secret that could have triggered WWIII? Given that everything about K-129 has always pointed to the Russians, the whole hijack theory seemed uneccessary - they could have just ordered the crew to launch against Hawaii, then disavowed that order. They couldn't guarantee that there sub would never be identified, whether it sank or not. Using hijackers instead of a regular launch order seemed not only to to doom the plan but guarantee that K-129 could be found and identified - the hijacker's (again, KGB troops with nuclear access) fail to correctly bypass the launch safeguards, and destroy the sub. We then spend billions ot bring -129 back up and then hide it, as if we were at least as scared to admit we had the sub as the Russians were to have lost it in the first place.

I guess my long-winded question is this - if Russian SLBM's were so dangerous (safeguards or otherwise) was there any demonstrated effort to make them safer? I think not - which makes a strong case for a missile explosion, but also undermines the theory of a botched launch. I read RSR a few months ago but for some reason never thought about the K-219 disaster of the 1980's - could that incident support the theory of a missile explosion? Was K-219 even mentioned in RSR?