Passive intercept range estimation

[Ula Jolly]

The Akula has a rather nifty tool that allows it to check the loose proximity of any pings. However, the Kilo doesn't.
Is there any way for me to check how close a pinging source might be (very troublesome when dealing with helo dipping sonar)?
I realize that the sharper/louder ping, the closer the bastard is, but I haven't got me ears set to know the difference between one amount of Db and the other.

From where I'm standing, I can't see any other way than using one's ears, but maybe... there's a hidden way? :hmm:

[Bellman]

Two points in response.
1. Sure you are right this is down to experience/practise. Exactly why LAN is so vital to experiment/test .
2. I wonder whether if the game is played in windowed mode whether simple software exists giving
a hi-fi type visual display of the strength of the audio. ? :hmm:

[UglyMowgli]

I can answer for the second point, yes you can do easly, not yet tested with DW but I will make some tests and post the results here.
To do this you need to redirect the output to an spectrum analyser, very simple.

[Bellman]

:D Thanks MSgalileo - will look forward to that. :rock:

[UglyMowgli]

Well if you want to try yourself:

here a demo version of the program you need (there is other kind of soft doing the same task but I am using this one)

Spectrogram 11 (http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/gram.html ) 10 days demo.

in gram11 choose as input sound source in File menu (F7): "what you ear" then in the same file menu "F1" and select what kind of display you want (see the help).

lauche DW in windowed mode and enjoy.

if you have problems, check for a virtual audio cable software like VAC ( http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm ) install and slect your audio card as input and virtual cable audio as output and in gram11 select virtual cable 1 output.

this an example of active ping retunr with the seawolf, sorry for the image size:
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2614/gram119wj.jpg

I try a misison with an FFG in active ping an Akula at 2mn but I can't ear the Perry sonar in the akula :damn: :damn: (Murphy laws??) so you have all elements to try yourself.

I will try in MP game with an MS member this days (sub vs SH-60 sonbuoy and active sonar and torpedo, I hope I will ear the pings).

[Bellman]

MSgalileo, vous est un gentil-homme - merci.. :D

You serve French quisine par excellance. :rock:

I will partake as soon as poss. - currently beeing reroofed and family descending for the weekend. Will need a clear head

Again this Rosbif will be happy to be cuffed over the ear by that penguin anytime. Magnifique :sunny:

[goldorak]

Doesn't the use of these third party software for signal analysis constitute cheating in a game ?
It would be very disturbing if in multiplayer people are using software such as the one described above to gain a tactical advantage. :nope:

[Ula Jolly]

I would never use this feature in an MP game, and strongly discourage the use of it (unless one informs the other players).
Thank you for taking the time for this, by the way. :D
I guess I'll just have to practise my hearing skills.

[Orm]

Goldorak wrote


Doesn't the use of these third party software for signal analysis constitute cheating in a game ?
It would be very disturbing if in multiplayer people are using software such as the one described above to gain a tactical advantage.


I think you did not understand MSgalileo and the meaning of all this discussion. It is not a question of cheating but a question of looking deeply inside this simulation, and to understand how it is working. On the contrarily, this disclose a large interest and curiosity which allow to have fruitful debates within our little community. :D

[goldorak]

I think you did not understand MSgalileo and the meaning of all this discussion. It is not a question of cheating but a question of looking deeply inside this simulation, and to understand how it is working. On the contrarily, this disclose a large interest and curiosity which allow to have fruitful debates within our little community. :D


Uhm, no I understood perfectly the discussion of MsGalileo.
I'm not criticizing the use of 3rd party software to explore how the simulation works, I was only expressing my doubts whether the use of said software during a multiplayer game costitutes cheating.

[Orm]

The problem is that peoples use easily the word cheating. About MP games, we know that experience is what count at the end. And about, this particular topic, personally, I do not need this software and trust my not so experienced ears to estimate the proximity of any pings.

[Bellman]

:) I am unable to take part in MP currently so the matter is accademic in my case.

However the question raised by goldark is legitimate. Windowing the game permits a variety of support
programmes potentaily to be used. These vary from stop watches to distance calculators and recently
support sites can be accessed during play to check sonar profiles etc. These are largely harmless and do
not constitute cheating. But what are the limits ?

Not sure what impact the synthesiser/visual analyser would have on MP. Cost is an issue
- if a support system is freely available to all players then you have a level playing field.

On the other hand some players use extra keyboards or may have a partner sitting on a LAN connection ....
where do you draw the line ?

[Orm]

This raises another question. How can you control, in a MP, who use what and in what way?

Like you said, it is difficult to know the real impact on the game of this software.

[goldorak]

This raises another question. How can you control, in a MP, who use what and in what way?

Like you said, it is difficult to know the real impact on the game of this software.

Yeah its difficult, guess you have to rely on people being honest when playing in multiplayer.

On the other hand, I would like to see window mode being permanently disabled
while playing multiplayer and only multiplayer whereas it could be re-enabled during singleplayer games.

[UglyMowgli]

Well I have 3 computers + one notebook and 2 PDA at home so I can play with one in full screen and have all the other infos on the others.
I regulary use my Palm to check the SONAR signature, TPK and as a stopwatch during the game, is this cheat?

In MP we must thrust each other , when I play DW is not to win at all cost but to have fun and laugh with the MS team and not to spend my time to suspect each of them if the won a party.

[Ula Jolly]

(God damn that huge picture!)
The skippers of real submarines are often - I dare trust without knowing firsthand - very smart.
Only at 3:00 in the morning yesterday, lying awake in bed, could I figure out how the Typhoon in RSR (I assume it was in that book) could fake its turn.
Well, I haven't really found that out yet, I'm just assuming that it combined turning and change in speed to make the impression for the enemy TMA operators that its turning was different than it actually was.
I mean, real skippers are bloody smart. And not just smart! They have an entire crew subordinate to them that are calculating this and everything, at all times, providing information for him/her to use.

In my eyes, it is not cheating if one to a degree simulates all this through calculations and third-hand instruments, as long as it stays within the capacity of a real skipper. Trust is essential in MP.
The excellent skippers are those who are able to do as much of these calculations in their own heads, on the spot, without much help.

[Bellman]

MS, tested the software as a relief from the depth-chargeing roofers and kids torpedoing everything - :damn:

From my new avator it looks as if I've cracked, at last. :huh:

I have the software up and running but it does not reflect /respond to in-game sound. I guess it operates with a sound card ?
My PC sound is not hardware accelerated - I have no soundcard as the sound is 'software' based and integrated. :down:

Perhaps there is a work-around ? Disappointing as it would be interesting to co-relate the visual patterns
and signal intensities with ping performance at various ranges etc. :hmm:

[Bellman]

Just a brief word about the wonders of technoligical development in relation to 'kids torpedoing'

A great leap forward has been made with the introduction of the DVD player its principle advantage over
the VHS cassette recorder is the size of its orifice. (Excuse the expression on a Sunday)

Experiments here have shown that it is 'kid proof' Only the very determined can now force the remains
of a half-eaten sandwich into its sensitive interior.

Aint progress great ? :arrgh!:

[UglyMowgli]

When you lauch Gram11 go to file/sound card control

the soud card control panel open and you can select the source, in my control panel I have : what you ear, microphone, cd, aux, etc....
I select 'what you ear', if you have not this choice in the panel, click on options then propreties, recording and check if there is a box with 'what you ear' and select it.

If you dindn't have this contol you can install VAC (virtual audio cable) and you can redirect to a vrtual input the sound ouptut so you can use gram11.

I am using a USB plantronic microphone headset but to test gram11 I have to disconnect it because Gram11 select automaticlly the microphone so you can try also to disconnect the microphone during the tests.