Manual Plot

[Donkey-Shot]

My suggestion would be this:

Instead of having to manually draw your readings on the map, have that done sort of semi-automatich. What I mean is this: at the scope, UZO or hydrophone you take your bearing/range readings and press 'mark'. Then the your readings get drawn "by the crew" on the (attack)map.

This way, there's no auto-update cheat and you don't have to do the cumbesrome task of drawing the stuff on the map with inaccurate drawing tools.
The markings on the map would be accurate, but only as accurate as the readings you took!

Some info I'd like to have displayed this was is:
-- own boat position,
-- own boat course and speed
-- time of reading
-- target 'mark' + time of reading
-- If tracking multiple targets; "target1", "Target2" at the reading marks

Info like own course and speed and the time at wich the reading was taken could be made to appear by hovering over the mark/own ship position with the mouse cursor to avoid clutter.

But like I said: this way you don't have a god's eye view. But you do get a nice plot development.

I'm no programmer, but this doesn't seem like a hell of a difficult thing to make and I bet it would make a lot of people happy.

[makman94]

My suggestion would be this:

Instead of having to manually draw your readings on the map, have that done sort of semi-automatich. What I mean is this: at the scope, UZO or hydrophone you take your bearing/range readings and press 'mark'. Then the your readings get drawn "by the crew" on the (attack)map.

This way, there's no auto-update cheat and you don't have to do the cumbesrome task of drawing the stuff on the map with inaccurate drawing tools.
The markings on the map would be accurate, but only as accurate as the readings you took!

Some info I'd like to have displayed this was is:
-- own boat position,
-- own boat course and speed
-- time of reading
-- target 'mark' + time of reading
-- If tracking multiple targets; "target1", "Target2" at the reading marks

Info like own course and speed and the time at wich the reading was taken could be made to appear by hovering over the mark/own ship position with the mouse cursor to avoid clutter.

But like I said: this way you don't have a god's eye view. But you do get a nice plot development.

I'm no programmer, but this doesn't seem like a hell of a difficult thing to make and I bet it would make a lot of people happy.

yes Donkey-Shot ! i tottaly agree with you (couldn't express this better):up:

it is also 'discused' or ...mentioned here: mark feature (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=156347)

BUT it is really 'strange'...:06:... to me the fact that community doesn't seem to be interested to this VERY IMPORTANT subject

anyway , nice that you 'bring' it up again and wellcome to Subsim

[Jaeger]

i agree with you. these features are more important for a good sim than grafics...

[Uber Gruber]

I actually like plotting manually but I think this is a brilliant idea as itwould enable me to observe a convoy, calling out 'mark' various escorts and potential targets and having that auto-plotted. We would still need to set the range manually but that could be a simple rotary device on the optic views that's also plotted when pressing the 'mark' button.

I suppose what we really all want is what real UBoat commanders had, but with an option to do it all manually as well. There is a wealth of knowledge here from Hitman, Joe Grundmand(sp?), OLC, Mikayl to name a few. It shouldn't be difficult for SH5 to draw on their knowledge to produce a great track and plot experience...or do the UBI Monkeys (thats Gruber talk for Lawyers by the way) have a policy against all forms of creativity ?

Have a banana!

[Sailor Steve]

Excellent idea! The way it should be done.

Oh, and WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

[Jimbuna]

That would be one huge positive and realistic step....welcome aboard http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[Platapus]

I would much rather have stuff like this than wolfpacks. :yeah:

[finchOU]

Wolfpacks are must IMHO...but I digress!

I love the "mark" function Idea as I brought it up for the development of SH3. I don’t think it should be "tied" to a known visual contact...because frankly I've taken measurements on ships my "sensors" have not picked up yet....I think you know what I mean.

If it was stand alone (aka not "tied" as above) and when implemented it would draw on the map.... time (in mins/seconds), angle (that you set on the stadimeter), relitive bearing (looking through the scope), and marked own ship position (assuming we are not going way from moving map concept to a Maneuvering board and real Nav (whole other can of worms)) it would be perfect IMHO.


question ...did uboats (Germans) have a split mirror stadimeter?? those save alot of time figuring out the angle.

[Donkey-Shot]

Imagine this:

You're at the scope tracking a target, say a mercant.
You've Identified it, taken a range reading with the stadimeter, noted the bearing and wrote down the time.

You stand up, slide down the ladder into the control room, draw your findings on the attack map/ plotting table. Then you climb back up the ladder and repeat the whole process again until you're satisfied you've got an accurate plot to base your solution on.

How 'realistic' does that sound?

Let the crew do some work, I mean: they are trained for this kinda stuff aren't they? It is kinda sort off they're job ain't it?? I'd expact a sub crew to be at least be compitent when they leave subschool.

Lets examine possible errors:
Error in range: up to you. You mess up range estimate, the crew marks a verry accurate position on the map/table of your erranious ranging
Bearing: it's on the scope ring. the only ability the crew needs is: litteracy!
Time: Same as bearing, a crew can read a clock/stop watch?

Doesn't seem like accesivly high expectations to me.

So: let them draw the marks on the map, let me connect the dots i.e. do the actual plotting.

And for noobs: let the crew do the plot based on your findings.
You still don't have a gods eye view with super radar accuracy. Besides, isn't SH5 placing more emphasis on the sub's crew?

[mookiemookie]

Yep. I'm definitely on board with this idea. It's how it was done and I like it!

[Snestorm]

This is an outstanding idé.
As BDU says: "Keep up the good work!"

Own Course is something that should always be displayed, digitaly.
It's OK for the helmsman to wander off course a-little.
It's not OK for us to not know our actual heading.

A nice command to add would be: "Mind your helm".
That would be a big (and realistic) improvement over:
22.00 New Course 090.
22.02 New Course 090.
22.05 New Course 090.
(IF you can hit the compass perfectly. Good luck.)

[Hitman]

The idea is very good, even though in the U-Boats plotting was not usually done. Most firing solutions were worked out "by seaman's eye" by the commander or IWO, no plotting at all except when overhauling a convoy or target at surface, where a simplified plot was kept.

In any case, it is by far the most realistic and logical implementation of the concept, I agree with donkey_shot :up:

[Ilpalazzo]

I wish the game had better plotting. It's such a huge part of the game. Kinda kills some of that whole realism thing when we have gps and the crew just sits there while the captain runs around the boat doing everything. The crew should be doing more, and I should be doing and knowing less.

hope that came out right:doh:

[Frederf]

I like the idea of a plotting tool that's its own pop up thing like the stopwatch or radio or gramophone so you can be anywhere doing anything and mouse select:

Bearing
Range
Time*
Icon shape*
Draw line between this and previous*
MARK

*Advanced options which would have sensible defaults.

[Donkey-Shot]

I wish the game had better plotting. It's such a huge part of the game. Kinda kills some of that whole realism thing when we have gps and the crew just sits there while the captain runs around the boat doing everything. The crew should be doing more, and I should be doing and knowing less.

hope that came out right:doh:

GPS ... Hmm, maybe this should be the subject of a new post.
But it would be cool to be able to use a sextant. But for those who don't wan't to get into that much micromanagement how's this: a set of standing orders, also for navigation.

It would be nice to be able to order the crew to plot your own position using the sextant at certain regular times. Or after you've been subermeged for a long time, or after a long period of cloudy weather.

Let map show a -projected- position from your last known position. And only give a, close to, real position if you or your crew uses the sextant. Now mind you, with a good nav officer with good dead reconing skills, the error in position wouldnt be huge if you're unable to use the sextant for quite some time. It certainly wouldnt be hundreds of miles. And in the middle of the ocean it wouldnt make that much a difference. but it would of course make a difference near coastal- and shallow areas.

It would also make a difference if you're on the ocean, not completely sure of your own position and got orders to intercept a contact. How accurate is your position? Will your (crews) math be correct? Will you be able to intercept or end up dozens (though again not hundreds) of miles off target?