SH5 Updates from the SUBSIM meeting next week

[Onkel Neal]

If you are unable to make the meeting, live updates, pics, and video will be posted here.

SUBSIM Updates (http://twitter.com/SUBSIM) on Twitter

Yes, I know Twitter is the latest fad. So, you don't need to tell me, but for short on the spot updates, links to you tube videos of the trip, it allows me to post directly from my mobile.

Full updates with pictures will be posted in the 2009 SUBSIM Meet planning forum (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=238).

I'm posting the Twitter link now so you have time to "follow" it. Don't worry, I won't spam you with "I put on my shoes", "I am tying my shoes", " etc... There will be updates on the meeting activites including Silent Hunter 5 updates. :shucks:

thanks!
Neal

[JU_88]

Neal! you are already spamming as (I could have sworn) you posted this in the General topics forum,
I order you to kneehaul yourself at once!!! :haha:

kidding of course, thats an awesome and very thoughtful idea - I shall add it to me bookmarks.
Thank you very much kind sir.:salute:

[Alex]

I second that thought ! :yep:

Thanks a lot Neal ! :up: :|\\ :DL :rock:

[Dowly]

Cool! Thanks, Nealster. :salute:

[DigitalAura]

Nealster? :-?

[Sailor Steve]

The Dowlster is known to say things like that from time to time.

It's a ferret thing.

[martes86]

Not like a favourite, but it doesn't require me to register, so I'm cool with it! :DL

[Carotio]

Not like a favourite, but it doesn't require me to register, so I'm cool with it! :DL

HA, I was the first subsim member to follow... :O:

And I could have sworn, The Nealzter wrote:
"I just packed my gun to the subsim meet so I can go out in Copenhagen and shoot a bear" :o
Just kidding of course :haha:

[Dowly]

Nealster? :-?

Yes. Atleast I'm not calling him Neil. :haha:

[SteamWake]

Nealster? :-?

LOL this made me chuckle too.

Im not a twitter fan but I'm happy the Nealster is doin it :rock:

[martes86]

"I just packed my gun to the subsim meet so I can go out in Copenhagen and shoot a bear" :o


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

That was hilarious, I knew what he actually meant, but seeing how it ended, was funny.

[badaboom]

Following you now on Twitter Captain!!!:):)

[Gotmilk]

uh oh the meeting is going on right now. I think that a new bit of info starts to come in very soon :woot:

[Rapt0r56]

I think that a new bit of info starts to come in very soon :woot:

I'm so exited, i need Input NOW!!! :damn: :damn: :damn: :cool:

[Gezoes]

A meet with the SH5 dev's aboard U-995? Did I read that right? I like the sound of that! Swapping community hopes with them, and them being open to that up close. Sehr gut :yep: And a wonderful location ofcourse :yeah:

Can't wait for the video, pics and news!

[Rapt0r56]

I remember when i was a few days in Hamburg, and Kiel, i also of course was on the U-995, firstly i hurt my head 'cause i underestimated the height of the bulkheads. :rotfl2:
Wonderful "Kahn" it is:up:

[mookiemookie]

firstly i hurt my head 'cause i underestimated the height of the bulkheads. :rotfl2:


Done that a couple times on the Cavalla, myself. Of course it is fun to swing yourself feet first through the hatches like you see in the movies! ;)

[Task Force]

LOL this made me chuckle too.

Im not a twitter fan but I'm happy the Nealster is doin it :rock:

LOL!!! I think Nealst...err Neal has a new nickname...

[Gotmilk]

They are on Nautilus right now.


12:00 visit at Nautilus (4hrs) (Confirmed)
17:00 Dinner at Silom Thai Restaurant (Confirmed)
19:00 Ubisoft presentation of SH5
(Because of the nature of the location we are doing this in - no photografy is allowed - with no exception!) (Confirmed)


hmm... i wonder. i dont think we are gonna see any pics of presentation.

[JU_88]

They are on Nautilus right now.


12:00 visit at Nautilus (4hrs) (Confirmed)
17:00 Dinner at Silom Thai Restaurant (Confirmed)
19:00 Ubisoft presentation of SH5
(Because of the nature of the location we are doing this in - no photografy is allowed - with no exception!) (Confirmed)


hmm... i wonder. i dont think we are gonna see any pics of presentation.

Probabaly not,:nope:
Would have been mighty nice to choose a location where it IS allowed... but hey-
I guess we will get written feed back which is still cool.

[SteamWake]

They are on Nautilus right now.


12:00 visit at Nautilus (4hrs) (Confirmed)
17:00 Dinner at Silom Thai Restaurant (Confirmed)
19:00 Ubisoft presentation of SH5
(Because of the nature of the location we are doing this in - no photografy is allowed - with no exception!) (Confirmed)


hmm... i wonder. i dont think we are gonna see any pics of presentation.

What the heck? The presentation being given at the pentagon or something? :rotfl2:

[Blood_splat]

What the heck? The presentation being given at the pentagon or something? :rotfl2:

They have to hide it because to many developers out there are making submarine games.:rotfl2:

[JU_88]

Friday 18th
12:00 visit at Nautilus (4hrs) (Confirmed)
17:00 Dinner at Silom Thai Restaurant (Confirmed)
19:00 Ubisoft presentation of SH5
(Because of the nature of the location we are doing this in - no photografy is allowed - with no exception!) (Confirmed)


This (orange) is happening one hour from now!.... lets hope they post us some quick reports before they go out for a piss up or whatever - otherwise they might have forgotten their own names by tomorrow morning. (Including the devs) :haha::haha:

We need some new SHV info - Im sick of all the stupid bollocks threads in the SHV forum.

[Gotmilk]

ok we have dynamic shadows in game :woot:

Real 3d wake and shore waves


"Sink a cetain ship, you will not encounter it again." <----- whatever that is supposed to mean :D

[JU_88]

:D Im just wating for 'we have wolfpacks'... come on, COME ON BABY!!!

[dcb]

Im just wating for 'we have wolfpacks

Amen to that! :yep:

[JU_88]

Amen to that! :yep:

Given your habitat, you could go and spy on them :D :O:

TWitter so far...(from Neal)

Crew loads torpedoes in front of you :rock:

http://a1.twimg.com/a/1253301564/images/white.pngRed triangle lives

Water grfx better than stock or modded SH4

Sink a cetain ship, you will not encounter it again."

Real 3d wake and shore waves

Dynamic shadows :up:

[longam]

Crew loads torpedoes in front of you

Alright :up:

[schmutt]

More!! More!!!! GIVE US MORE!!!!!!:arrgh!:

[JU_88]

yeah MORE! only really graphical features mentioned so far..

[tonschk]

:salute: Dynamic shadows :up:




:yeah: YAHOOOO :rock: with Dynamic Shadows enabled the inmersion factor increase a .....L :DL T..... Thank you very much UBISOFT



.

[schmutt]

@ju88:
more please!

please!!!!!!!!!!

[Blood_splat]

:/\\: You have not seen the last of me MUhahaha!

[Semtex]

Crew loads torpedoes in front of you :rock:


good news. i wanna see that now!

[schmutt]

I bet they are all sitting infront of the screen, eyes wide open, mouth even wider, banned by the devs demonstation, forgetting the 280 million Subsimmers bashing their mice around the table, hitting the computer because thr twitter-blog stopped. For over an hour.
:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::d amn::damn::damn::damn::wah::wah::wah::wah::wah::wa h::wah::wah:

[stabiz]

SHV, I want you.

[Arclight]

I bet they are all sitting infront of the screen, eyes wide open, mouth even wider, banned by the devs demonstation, forgetting the 280 million Subsimmers bashing their mice around the table, hitting the computer because thr twitter-blog stopped. For over an hour.
:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::d amn::damn::damn::damn::wah::wah::wah::wah::wah::wa h::wah::wah:

Can't expect Neal to be texting on his cell the entire presentation. ;)

I'm glad with what we got so far, especially crew visably loading torpedoes (noone seriously thought there would be no shadows, right?). Modeled compartments aren't just eye-candy, they're functional.

The ships roster sounds great too, though I wonder if it applies to all ships, or just warships. :hmmm:

[SteamWake]

:D Im just wating for 'we have wolfpacks'... come on, COME ON BABY!!!

No soup for you ! :salute:

[longam]

It must be lunch break....

[Semtex]

It must be lunch break....

and they eat soup?

[Arclight]

It must be lunch break....
At 10pm? That's one late lunch. ;)

[longam]

Midnight snack maybe? :haha:

[Arclight]

Maybe a soup break then. :D

I think what Neal was sending was what he saw in a presentation, after which they went to the questions. Probably having a good chat about the ins and outs about now. :hmmm:

[JU_88]

its 12:54am in Denmark as i write this - so i wouldnt expect anything more until tommorrow / sunday.

[kstanb]

Nice update, looks like graphics are going to be great

I hope the next Twitter update focuses in gameplay; nothing wrong with eye candy, but most people is really looking forward to hear about gameplay features

by the way, what is "red triangle?"

[Webster]

by the way, what is "red triangle?"

i think he's talking about the good or bad shooting solution marker for the scope

red = no angle
orange = not a good angle
light green = good angle
dark green = excellent angle

[kstanb]

I didn't know there was one :hmmm:

When I moved from SHIII to SHIV, I went directly to 100% high realism

i think he's talking about the good or bad shooting solution marker for the scope

red = no angle
orange = not a good angle
light green = good angle
dark green = excellent angle

[Reece]

The red triangle appears at the bottom of a locked target!:oops::x Hopefully can be removed with a mod later!!:yep:

[fireship4]

I am almost positive that it will be removable via difficulty settings.

[stabiz]

Hopefully can be removed with a mod later!!:yep:

:rotfl2:

[karamazovnew]

Red triangles are important to know what target you have selected for... something. But if we need to lock/identify ships to use the stadimeter again, on the higheest difficulty, i'll go crazy.

[karamazovnew]

:hmmm: What's taking so long? I hope they didn't kill eachother. At least we know they survived the sub trip.

[JU_88]

The meet ends on Sunday i belive, i wouldnt expect to hear much until late Sunday or Monday at the earliest.
Give them time, espcially the yanks - who will prolly have jetlag when they get home. :)
Id expect we will hear from the Danish guys first- since they bloomin well lives there... lol

[karamazovnew]

Aaaah, I thought it finished yesterday :haha:. Let's hope that with this occasion, Ubi will publish more screenshots :up:

[Semtex]

[...] Ubi will publish more screenshots :up:
or short vid from demo review:rock:

[vickers03]

SH5 demo concluded.about 15 hours ago:hmmm:

[Semtex]

there will be public demo? :D

[Schultz]

Yes,Yes tell us, will it be?I can't wait to see.

[Shiplord]

there will be public demo? :D
No, it's just a Twitter message that the demo, the SH5 presentation there in Copenhagen is finished.

[Schultz]

But noone filmed the demo?

[Task Force]

I dont think they were allowed to take pics/vedio during the demo.

[Semtex]

No, it's just a Twitter message that the demo, the SH5 presentation there in Copenhagen is finished.
i read that twitter message. then not will be demo for us. demo is only at presentation (?)

[Navarre]

I dont think they were allowed to take pics/vedio during the demo.
The meeting is a private event and not a public press event.:hmmm:

The publication of new pictures and videos, I think, is the task of the PR department at Ubisoft and not the task of the developers. They were only in their spare time at a private event of subsim gamers and showed their work at this event. Perhaps Neal is entitled to report more next week, possibly even with new screenshots?

[gutted]

i think those aids like the visible escort's radar and hydrophone sensors will be a good training tool.

instead of just cursing that you always get spotted when playing full real.. you can train and see why, and learn to avoid it.

[Jimbuna]

The meeting is a private event and not a public press event.:hmmm:

The publication of new pictures and videos, I think, is the task of the PR department at Ubisoft and not the task of the developers. They were only in their spare time at a private event of subsim gamers and showed their work at this event. Perhaps Neal is entitled to report more next week, possibly even with new screenshots?

There's nothing wrong in hanging onto that hope.....but I think your original assessment is probably the more accurate :hmmm:

[karamazovnew]

Not only accurate, but also very serious indeed. I'm pretty sure that all present there were too smart to NOT make the mistake of taking "some nice pics to show to the boys back home". If they did, they'd better keep them to themselves or they would risk seriously hurting the dev team (and our warm relationship with them).

[KeptinCranky]

No pics, no videos, Guys, the location didn't allow it.

we got shown the game as it's been built so far, the Ubi guys even went so far as to download the latest patch for their working copy.

I can tell you, their torpedo attacks were kinda shoddy, but we were all pretty tired from spending the day in the sun, viewing, sailing on, and diving with the Nautilus submarine :D

I was impressed by the stuff they showed us, not just the graphics, which were spectacular as you'd expect.

The gameplay aspect is not quite the same as sh3 and sh4, they're evolving into a new direction which might not appeal to the hard core sim heads right away, but that's what realism settings are for, the harder you make it for yourself the harder it will get.

it's almost 2am here in Denmark and I'm going to bed, when all of us start the return journey tomorrow, expect some more info once we get home, get some rest and coffee:)

Just one more thing... You all know you can never please everyone, but what the Ubi guys are going for in sh5, from what I've seen and the discussions we've had with them, is a game that will please the sim veterans but won't be impossible to play by their 10 year old kid/sister/grandchild.

I'm confident they'll deliver the goods....:yeah:

and ehh....:/\\k:

[SubV]

While we're all waiting the detailed report from Neal and others, I've decided to post here an official SH5 Q&A from Ubisoft forums.
08.09.2009

How does the camera work in SH5? Has the improvement been made significantly compared to the camera view from SH4?

The player is free to move through the submarine in free FPS-like fashion. We believe that creating a simulation game is not just a question of writing the mechanics that define the machine – in our case the u-boat – but there’s also the very important part of defining the actual human experience. What is it like to be the captain of an u-boat crew, in mid-Atlantic?

You should feel the tension and the claustrophobic atmosphere inside the UBoat and the way it affects the crew.

On the other hand, external camera is now allowed to rise much higher above the sea, allowing a dramatic view of the battlefields and landscape. We’ve changed the water and terrain rendering engine, solving the bugs that prevented this in the previous version and increasing the rendering distance too.

Are we going to get a comprehensive manual of step by step to set up manual firing solution?

We believe manual targeting is a very interesting and rewarding experience. Our ambition is to have it easier to understand and explained IN GAME – without sacrificing its complexity. Of course, there will still be a manual describing all the steps in greater detail.

Being a first person (Captain), how do we manage the crew? And what kind of things we can expect from the evolution of the crew abilities?

In true first person game fashion, the player can walk to a crewmember and click on it, opening the dialogue menu. You can chit-chat, if you want, or tell him to use one of his abilities.

There will be also a crew management menu where you have an overview of each of the crew member’s abilities and the overall performance. Based on the results of your patrol, you will receive a number of skill points which are used to evolve the crew. This allows you to customize your experience as you see fit.

Regarding the abilities, they are based on real mechanics and may even have some penalties. For instance, you can tell your Engines Petty Officer to push the electric engines a little harder, getting that extra knot of underwater speed. Of course, this will result in greatly increased battery consumption and may force you to quit combat and surface much sooner than normally.

Will we be able to make/record movies of any actions during the course of the game so we can replay it at anytime?

No. But any player could use FRAPS of another frame grabbing program to film his experience.

15.09.2009

What other features are there outside the submarine? i.e. is there a kind of screen saver if we are at a harbour? Can we go to a cafe as a first person? Talk to a General perhaps?

The focus of Silent Hunter is always the action at sea, during the patrol, with the time spent between patrols taking a secondary importance. However, the way you prepare your next mission is very important, and you will be able refit your boat with the latest technological gadgets, obtain intelligence from your commanding officer and choose your torpedo loadout. The harbor keeps the first person perspective, but some of the management jobs are better done through 2D interfaces.

How much freedom will we be seeing/getting? Are we able to navigate from the rear torpedo room all the way to the forward torpedo room seamlessly or will it be more like SHIV, click on a ladder/door/hatch to enter the next submarine section?

The player will have full access everywhere inside the submarine. Just like in any other first person game and just like a real captain had. But remember, you’re not just a camera, you’re the captain. Don’t go sunbathing on the fore deck or you’ll have a long way to go to that conning tower hatch before the sub can dive!

Will this be the same in SHV as in SHIV that the player can replace the sailor or officer of his job and do it himself? (Or are we restricted to giving them commands only?)

The player can jump in most of the key positions on the ship – firing guns, periscope, hydrophone, navigation map. More so, each of these stations is realistically modeled, and, combined with the FPS view, the immersion should be total. Additionally, we’re aiming to make the player work SIDE BY SIDE with his crew – be it on the periscope, when identifying a ship, or on the map, when looking for enemy convoys.

Will the AI controlled crew men do their tasks properly? (Better than in SHIV).

They are all well trained sailors. And, with the abilities that the player gives them, we believe you’ll be a proud captain to have them serve under your command.

[FIREWALL]

While we're all waiting the detailed report from Neal and others, I've decided to post here an official SH5 Q&A from Ubisoft forums.


:up: :up: :up: :salute: SubV

[FIREWALL]

I could sleep better tonite if Nealster would just post.....

" YES WOLFPACKS " :yawn: :zzz: Zzzzzz

[JU_88]

I could sleep better tonite if Nealster would just post.....

" YES WOLFPACKS " :yawn: :zzz: Zzzzzz

I dont think we are gonna find out yet. :cry:

[stabiz]

The gameplay aspect is not quite the same as sh3 and sh4, they're evolving into a new direction which might not appeal to the hard core sim heads right away, but that's what realism settings are for, the harder you make it for yourself the harder it will get.

Just one more thing... You all know you can never please everyone, but what the Ubi guys are going for in sh5, from what I've seen and the discussions we've had with them, is a game that will please the sim veterans but won't be impossible to play by their 10 year old kid/sister/grandchild.


I dont like this at all. I have heard this phrase several times lately, and those games have sucked or been downgrades from their predecessors. They should stay with the core experience from SH3, evolve it and add great graphics and wolf packs. The cinematic route/easy access is::damn:

I blame the console market.

And yes, this is me:
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2197088module11881078photo_1223149346sta tler-waldorf-muppet-show.jpg

[JU_88]

Hmmm, I will reserve ultimate judgment until i play the game.
I have to say what concerns me most is that 90% of SHV chatter has revolved around

Graphics
First person interior
Crew.

There has been very little info about the SHV world outside of the sub,

Wolf packs are a biggie, something we have been begging for since 2005.... but there has been no mention...
Im starting to think that this must be because:

a) AI subs have been neglected (again)
b) Its still in development... (I hope)

[Jimbuna]

I could sleep better tonite if Nealster would just post.....

" YES WOLFPACKS " :yawn: :zzz: Zzzzzz

I'm not sure what the return flight details to the US are, seeing as how I was unable to attend the Meet this year :stare:

But reflecting on my flight experience from last years Meet, it can zap you for a day or two afterwards.

I'm confident there'll be an update soon.....I hope :hmmm:

[Sonarman]

Looking at it from a Ubi (ie Business) point of view the things listed so far make solid commercial sense their priorities are probably...

1. Update the underlying technology: Improve the graphics engine to bring the series into line with current games/ technology ie dynamic shadows etc

2. Increase market share: introduce new players to the game through the addition of more "handholding" features into the game i.e. the new visible detection radiuses etc

3. Fix /extend the games multiplayer capabilities: this may not be as important as the game has no huge multiplayer following and probably won't in this incarnation without some serious (read costly) re-tooling.

4. Add a major "whizz-bang supercool new feature" sure to catch the eyes of the gaming press: i.e. the full sub walk through + "genre busting" RPG style crew interaction.


I'd imagine/hope once the above list is satisfied our trusty devs will pour/sneak in as much of our and their personal wishlists as possible & practical inside the budget/timeframe allocated to them.

[kptn_kaiserhof]

play nice ju88

[mookiemookie]

Hmmm, I will reserve ultimate judgment until i play the game.
I have to say what concerns me most is that 90% of SHV chatter has revolved around

Graphics
First person interior
Crew.

There has been very little info about the SHV world outside of the sub,



Agreed. I couldn't care less about walking through my sub from aft to bow. That's not what Kaleuns did.

We shall see.

[karamazovnew]

I dont like this at all. I have heard this phrase several times lately, and those games have sucked or been downgrades from their predecessors. They should stay with the core experience from SH3, evolve it and add great graphics and wolf packs.

I believe you're taking this the wrong way. I've said it before, in essence SH3 and SH4 are just like SH1 and SH2 but with pseudo 3D screens and better overall graphics. Have you ever wondered why they didn't just put a Collider controller for the interior cameras before? The dev's move to a real 3d environment in SH5 is indeed a brave one and they have had many problems to tackle with. You all call it "eye-candy" but the end result will be a sim like no other. Don't fool yourself comparing it to console games or the latest PC game downfall.
We all want to game to evolve. But into what? Do we want it to grow an extra arm? Neah, SH5 will be like the dinosaurs transforming into eagles :yeah: Scary at first, and some might still say "I liked it better when it had 30 cm teeth" but after your first patrol, you won't be able to play anything else :yeah:

[Semtex]

We all want to game to evolve. But into what? Do we want it to grow an extra arm? Neah, SH5 will be like the dinosaurs transforming into eagles :yeah: Scary at first, and some might still say "I liked it better when it had 30 cm teeth" but after your first patrol, you won't be able to play anything else :yeah:
u think so? SHIV didnt evolve to eagle in my opinion. he evolve down, to fu rats or lower. u write about SHV i know. SHV must be better comparision to SH III/IV. But time show up whats going on ... on board
I wanna just better SH III :)

[Schultz]

At the begining I didn't like sh4, I thought it was awfull , I liked sh3 , but I sayed to me, I can't get hurt if I try sh4 , I instaled sh4 , finished a few patrols and now I am playing sh3 and sh4 also.

[Semtex]

At the begining I didn't like sh4, I thought it was awfull , I liked sh3 , but I sayed to me, I can't get hurt if I try sh4 , I instaled sh4 , finished a few patrols and now I am playing sh3 and sh4 also.
i try 3-4 times. install, play, uninstall and play SHIII. maybe i give him 5th chance :smug:

but now i want new vid from SHV :arrgh!:

[JU_88]

play nice ju88

Huh? What'd I do?, What'd i do??

:06::06:

[FIREWALL]

After reading some of the posts on this page I have to agree with Mookie and someothers.

Walking thru the sub watching the torps load and being offered soup while "cute" the novelty will wear off soon and become boring.

Tools are the important thing. Peri/Uso controls, Hydrphone and later Radar.

Camera views for situational awareness and Map tools also.

These's are basics. The Wolfpack if it's there would be great if, I can use them as a pack not, just eye candy.

The ATO isn't like the large PTO. Action is just over the horizon.

For those who the whole game is walking around the boat inside and out and laying in the Kpt's bunk reading a R\L book, save yourself the money on this Sim and subscribe to Netflix.

While it seems UBI is bringing RPG\Shooter grafics and ability like some of their other titles I hope it isn't the main feature.

The point I'M trying to make is I am a Sim player > Sub, Flight and Racing only.

While I have access to most if not all RPG\Shooter games I bore quickly with them.

I think Ubisoft is going to try their best while on a business budget to give us the most Realism as well as open this Sim up to a player who likes RPG\Shooter games.

To keep the Silent Hunter franchise somewhat profitable thy need to appeal to a larger audience.

I hope UBI suceeds and ultimately caters to all our whims. :salute:

[Carotio]

I have had a bit of a chuckle going on fast-reading most of the messages of all you guys, who were NOT here at the Cph meeting.
You just sound SO incredible negative all-ready....

The dev team and Ubisoft are trying to make a game which will appeal to the widest possible extent of consumers: to make some effects which will appeal to the realist player but also something for the casual player. You just cannot produce a game which will only satisfy the one part. That would mean the other part would turn their back to Ubisoft games in the future.

So yes, rely on the difficulty settings of the game PLUS the fact that the game will be moddable, and it will be similar to both SH3 and SH4 in many aspects, but also much different in other aspects. I'm sure you'll like the new periscope screen, I did... :D
Now some of you just critizise the new interiors without even having seen them... I have :03: - and I'm impressed. True perhaps that some captains didn't go all around the boat, AND SO WHAT? A lot of members in all SH related forums have been crying to have full interiors in the uboats, and when it's finally done, you just complain... :doh::doh::doh: Seriously.... :nope:

Wolfpacks is still an undecided issue. We all would like to see AI uboats in harbour areas, meeting them at sea and have them somehow take part of a huge convoy battle. But making it is perhaps not just a piece of cake. I think it would be very nice to have them in the game this time, but if not, then multiplayer is the answer...

Otherwise, I think Neal has written on twitter during the presentation the most important updates of features...

[Arclight]

To be honest, I think a basic principle is being overlooked: the game puts you in the shoes of a U-boot captain. He doesn't just have access to a few "screens" representing the stations of his boat, nor is he confined to the controlroom and conningtower.

It may not have any lasting appeal to the hardcore simmer, but if you are to be (ie feel like) the captain, it only makes sense to have access to the entire boat.

Imho at the core it's about immersion. I think it's a step they didn't just should take, it's one they had to take, for the sake of the overall experience.

Just my 2c.

[stabiz]

I believe you're taking this the wrong way. I've said it before, in essence SH3 and SH4 are just like SH1 and SH2 but with pseudo 3D screens and better overall graphics. Have you ever wondered why they didn't just put a Collider controller for the interior cameras before? The dev's move to a real 3d environment in SH5 is indeed a brave one and they have had many problems to tackle with. You all call it "eye-candy" but the end result will be a sim like no other. Don't fool yourself comparing it to console games or the latest PC game downfall.
We all want to game to evolve. But into what? Do we want it to grow an extra arm? Neah, SH5 will be like the dinosaurs transforming into eagles :yeah: Scary at first, and some might still say "I liked it better when it had 30 cm teeth" but after your first patrol, you won't be able to play anything else :yeah:

Hey, I hope you are right.:DL My outburst comes from fear, a fear I always feel when the words "more accessible" (in other words "casual player") are introduced when talking about a franchise I love. I dont doubt that the devs are in our corner, but in the end its UBIs call. No game series is holy when it comes to big bucks, just look at Rainbow 6 or Ghost Recon.

:rotfl2:I dont think we are there yet, not at all, just sayin ... Aaargh, this comes across as way more negative than intended.

Bottom line: I will preorder of course, to hell with the bugs and the following swearing and waving of fists in these forums, its all a part of the new-SH-circus.

[dcb]

Wolfpacks is still an undecided issue. We all would like to see AI uboats in harbour areas, meeting them at sea and have them somehow take part of a huge convoy battle. But making it is perhaps not just a piece of cake.

It was possible in the '90s, in games that installed off a bunch of floppy disks. Wolfpack took somwhere under 1 megabyte, IIRC, while Aces of the Deep took a "whooping" 7 MB on the hard disk. Yet, both of them featured wolfpacks and submarine AI. Now, 15 years after these early successes, these old features suddenly become too difficult to implement.
Come on, it ain't rocket science and some modders here were one step away from having working AI submarines, even with the limited means they had at hand and in the original SH3 engine, released 5 years ago. Once again are we gonna sail the one and only submarine in the world? I certainly hope not!:nope:

[martes86]

it ain't rocket science

Oh really? You speak from experience (and I mean hardcore C++ programming experience)? Because that's how it's gonna be in, combined with the usual scripted AI behaviours.
It might not be rocket science, but it ain't easy either. Release is still like 6-7 months away, just cut the devs some slack, will ya? I think that SH5 might surprise you, and even get you some nice presents if played the right way.

Cheers

[Jaeger]

Wolfpacks is still an undecided issue. We all would like to see AI uboats in harbour areas, meeting them at sea and have them somehow take part of a huge convoy battle. But making it is perhaps not just a piece of cake. I think it would be very nice to have them in the game this time, but if not, then multiplayer is the answer...


undecided? i think we should cry it out louder: we need wolfpacks this time! do you remember the dynamic campaign discussion before release of sh3? if we cry loud enough, perhaps they hear us... if it is too much work, they should give our modders the basics to implement them (ai torpedo controler and u boat ai). the rest could be done by the community...

[JU_88]

I can appreciate that actual wolfpacks are not an easy thing to create,
for instace where they need to shaddow a convoy or be able to co-ordinate attacks with eachother and the player.
Not easy no.

But having an AI sub that dives/surfaces and shoot torpedos - no that Certainly isnt rocket science and has been done before - many times.
If they can give a Sub some reasonable AI routines thats good enough for me, and it would certainly be a million time better than having nothing at all or some silly 'pretend' or 'virtual' wolfpack - which would just be a horrible immersion killer.

"oh look what that escort depth charging?"
(go to external cam)
"hmm appears to be depth charging nothing?"
(Que the eternal 'its a bug/feature' argument)

Sub AI dont have to be perfect...it just need to be in there, dump them in the SHV world and let them do their stuff, we've done the whole 'one sub against the world' thing in SH3 & 4.

Now we could use a change.

[oscar19681]

I can appreciate that actual wolfpacks are not an easy thing to create,
for instace where they need to shaddow a convoy or be able to co-ordinate attacks with eachother and the player.
Not easy no.

But having an AI sub that dives/surfaces and shoot torpedos - no that Certainly isnt rocket science and has been done before - many times.
If they can give a Sub some reasonable AI routines thats good enough for me, and it would certainly be a million time better than having nothing at all or some silly 'pretend' or 'virtual' wolfpack - which would just be a horrible immersion killer.

"oh look what that escort depth charging?"
(go to external cam)
"hmm appears to be depth charging nothing?"
(Que the eternal 'its a bug/feature' argument)

Sub AI dont have to be perfect...it just need to be in there, dump them in the SHV world and let them do their stuff, we've done the whole 'one sub against the world' thing in SH3 & 4.

Now we could use a change.

You said it man! You sure did!

[FIREWALL]

The thing is your saying what some don't want to see or hear.:03:


The thing is.... I haven't seen or heard a definate no on Wolfpacks anywhere.


Maybe just building up the suspense. :DL

[karamazovnew]

:hmmm: Actually, how hard CAN it be? I repeat what I said in my other posts, wolfpacks mean communication with other boats. I still doubt that the germans would be stupid enough to put 10 submerged uboats in a single attack within a 10 mile radius. They'd just collide with eachother. And, in case you've forgot, there are few avenues of approach to a convoy, altough I'd love to see the face of the captain of a destroyer when he picks up 10 contacts waiting for him :haha:. And again, having more subs firing at the same time would be impossible and would break the element of surprise. So... Ok they might be told to wait for you to be in the area before they scare off the convoy :haha: but I don't think having an extra status ("shadow convoy") is hard.

The question is, how hard can it be to have "encounters" between ai ships on the map? Each sub would get a patrol area, like you, ships/convoys come close to it, it decides wether to report or attack, it attacks, "results may vary". And the only way you'd know about it would be through radio messages. Remember the ones in GWX? They sounded nice but they were false, because there were no other uboats! But now each time they'd say "attacked convoy, suffered minor damage, sinked all escorts" you'd rush there to find an unescorted convoy :D They'd send real contact and weather reports, just like you do. And this time, your contact reports would also MEAN something.

Now there is a slight possibility that because of the way probability works, the other uboats might fare way better than the actual ones did and you'd end up with 1000 uboats in the atlantic at the end of the war. To help them "die" more historically acurate, the random dice rolls could be helped by forcing them to meet the quota, through the easy to find number of uboats that were lost each month.
Now, how many subs did the germans have in the atlantic at one time? :hmmm: 30?50?100? Falcon 4 had a dynamic campaign with thousands of units fighting in the air/land/sea. So again, how hard CAN it be?

[karamazovnew]

Actually, let me make you a challenge. Let's help Ubi see how simple it is, by making a pseudocode ourselves :up:. We can make a thread where any programmers can join in and explore this Wolfpack thing in detail. In one month at the most we could present the devs a detailed solution to the wolfpack problem :up:

[FIREWALL]

read other members posts for a change.

[karamazovnew]

Who me? I did! I just don't like quoting 2 screens of posts :haha: This has been discused for a looong time. Why? What did I miss?

[V.C. Sniper]

if (convoy spotted)
{
convoyContact.sendInfo();
convoyContact.shadowConvoy(isConvoyInSight);

if (escortSpotBoat)
{
ALARM();
}
}

//lulz

[Uber Gruber]

Wolfpacks is still an undecided issue.

Well thats just crazy, i mean really really crazy. We already have SH3, i've no need to upgrade to SH5 if it has no wolfpacks....it will just be a graphical upgrade and I tried that with SH4..PANTS!

No Wolfpacks? Simply not interested!

[Gotmilk]

updates updates updates. Tell us every detail you remember from presentation.

[Onkel Neal]

It's too early to tell, but basically it looks like SH3/4 with better graphics, full interior access, a much more strategic dynamic campaign, and with realism options for causal players (ship health bars, better enemy visual/sonar/radar range tools, etc). I fully support adding elements that make the game playable for the arcade/action game crowd, damn right. Of course, as long as it is scalable, has realism options that allow guys like me to have a fully manual TDC, no contacts update map, etc. Wouldn't it be great to sell the game to 120,000 hard core subsim players and 300,000 "shoot em up" action players? :()1:

I think the strategic dynamic campaign elements will add the most gameplay. As designed, when you attack a supply convoy it will affect the land battles, the routes of future convoys, and the enemy's ASW response.

AI Wolfpacks are .... well, they don't know yet if they will be in the game, if they will be very minimal, like AOD. I hope they are able to include AI wolfpacks, I think it would be a big letdown not to have "shadow convoy" objectives, where you must stay in contact with a convoy, not get too close so you are driven under and you lose the convoy; not too far away that you lose the convoy in the night; not attack until the other U-boats are in position (breaking that order and you lose command). This would add a lot of gameplay to the SH series and I believe it must be included.

[karamazovnew]

Affecting land battles might be over the top. However, depending on the year and month, some convoys could be somehow linked to historical battles and deemed more important. :hmmm:

I've just finished a post about the recognition manual. In it I've noticed that the TDC had a Ship Length dial and so the captain might have had a way to calculate the ship's speed through the TDC. Think about it, with such a tool and a double split prism stadimeter... how long would it take you to find all the data you need (speed, range, aob)? If the AOB dial would be linked to the sub's compass, then in less than a minute you'd know everything about your target and maneuvering for a good shot would be child's play. It would be realistical, but also almost "shoot-em up". The two ways of playing can coexist very well in the same level of difficulty. My feeling is that difficulty should consist of other factors, like escort strength, ai sensors, ai adaptability, torpedo faults and so on. The attack itself might not pose enough of a challenge to differentiate between easy and hard. But the approach, the tactical part, would. That's what being a captain is all about, right?

[Hitman]

I've noticed that the TDC had a Ship Length dial and so the captain might have had a way to calculate the ship's speed through the TDC

If you are referring to the real life TDC (Not the in-game TDC) then that dial was used for calculating salvo spreads along the ship's hull. Not for calculating ship's speed, which was done directly by chronometer and fixed line, plotting or simple estimation based on ship wake size and seaman's eye :up:


in less than a minute you'd know everything about your target and maneuvering for a good shot would be child's play. It would be realistical, but also almost "shoot-em up".

Well it was a shoot-em up in the early years! But it changed later, so no complaints from me here... the real challenge for U-Boat commanders in WW2 was not targetting, but getting close enough to shoot.

I think the strategic dynamic campaign elements will add the most gameplay. As designed, when you attack a supply convoy it will affect the land battles, the routes of future convoys, and the enemy's ASW response.

I'd much happily trade that for wolfpacks, but OK :salute:

[karamazovnew]

If you are referring to the real life TDC (Not the in-game TDC) then that dial was used for calculating salvo spreads along the ship's hull. Not for calculating ship's speed, which was done directly by chronometer and fixed line, plotting or simple estimation based on ship wake size and seaman's eye :up:


Phew, I almost began to thing that the germans had it too easy :haha: On the other hand, I don't understand why they didn't develop such a feature :hmmm: Oh well, more to do for us... or the guy we put at the periscope :haha:

[mookiemookie]

AI Wolfpacks are .... well, they don't know yet if they will be in the game, if they will be very minimal, like AOD. I hope they are able to include AI wolfpacks, I think it would be a big letdown not to have "shadow convoy" objectives, where you must stay in contact with a convoy, not get too close so you are driven under and you lose the convoy; not too far away that you lose the convoy in the night; not attack until the other U-boats are in position (breaking that order and you lose command). This would add a lot of gameplay to the SH series and I believe it must be included.

I agree wholeheartedly. We've been screaming about Wolfpacks since SH3. If we got a fully modeled interior of the sub (which, while I'm sure looks pretty cool, adds absolutely nothing to gameplay) and no wolfpacks (which would add tremendously to gameplay)...I think that would be a huge oversight and a very severe case of misplaced priorities. SH4 made the mistake of placing eye candy over gameplay (heck, you can even take it a step further to say it made the mistake of placing eye candy over having a working game) and I'd hate to see the same mistake repeated with SH5.

It's so integral to the Battle of the Atlantic that not having wolfpacks in a U-boat game is like not having a Type VII submarine in the game.

[Jimbuna]

I agree wholeheartedly. We've been screaming about Wolfpacks since SH3. If we got a fully modeled interior of the sub (which, while I'm sure looks pretty cool, adds absolutely nothing to gameplay) and no wolfpacks (which would add tremendously to gameplay)...I think that would be a huge oversight and a very severe case of misplaced priorities. SH4 made the mistake of placing eye candy over gameplay (heck, you can even take it a step further to say it made the mistake of placing eye candy over having a working game) and I'd hate to see the same mistake repeated with SH5.

It's so integral to the Battle of the Atlantic that not having wolfpacks in a U-boat game is like not having a Type VII submarine in the game.

Great post mookie http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree wholeheartedly. We've been screaming about Wolfpacks since SH3. If we got a fully modeled interior of the sub (which, while I'm sure looks pretty cool, adds absolutely nothing to gameplay) and no wolfpacks (which would add tremendously to gameplay)...I think that would be a huge oversight and a very severe case of misplaced priorities. SH4 made the mistake of placing eye candy over gameplay (heck, you can even take it a step further to say it made the mistake of placing eye candy over having a working game) and I'd hate to see the same mistake repeated with SH5.

It's so integral to the Battle of the Atlantic that not having wolfpacks in a U-boat game is like not having a Type VII submarine in the game.

SH6-The Wolfpacks! Just an oversight in SH5:D:O:

[mookiemookie]

SH6-The Wolfpacks! Just an oversight in SH5:D:O:

You laugh, but I'd take it as an expansion pack. :yeah:

[JU_88]

You laugh, but I'd take it as an expansion pack. :yeah:

Oh man, if won the lotto, I pay them out of my own pocket :haha:, does that make me sad? :oops:

[mookiemookie]

Oh man, if won the lotto, I pay them out of my own pocket :haha:, does that make me sad? :oops:

As sad as me because I'd probably do the same! :rotfl2:

[KeptinCranky]

yep, same here, :D but I'm not getting into any expansion pack thinking... let's first see the finished product, then start pestering the devs about an expansion. they'd be willing to make one for sure, but I got the feeling from talking to them and the questions they asked us that they themselves aren't even sure what that sort of hypothetical future expansion might entail

[Hartmann]

very interesting, Ia could adapt to the player tactics changes ?? :hmmm:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Pretty cool news about the crew interactions and interiors :DL

[FIREWALL]

Who me? I did! I just don't like quoting 2 screens of posts :haha: This has been discused for a looong time. Why? What did I miss?

Not you. :up: :salute: Others.

[GlobalExplorer]

if (convoy spotted)
{
convoyContact.sendInfo();
convoyContact.shadowConvoy(isConvoyInSight);

if (escortSpotBoat)
{
ALARM();
}
}

//lulz

you forgot to include the full implementation for functions, e.g.

convoyContact.sendInfo()
convoyContact.shadowConvoy()
ALARM();

In even simpler terms: Guys, stop posting ridiculous pseudocode, someone from UBI might actually read this and get pissed off by this .. kind of conversation.

However, I agree Wolfpacks are a must, and I would be surprised if UBI doesnt include them. I think the reason they weren't in SHII was because it would require substantial resources to develop Wolfpacks that meet the standard of the rest of the sim. So if they are to give in to community pressure this time we might see a half assed implementation ..

[karamazovnew]

In even simpler terms: Guys, stop posting ridiculous pseudocode, someone from UBI might actually read this and get pissed off by this .. kind of conversation.

I got pissed off myself because by pseudocode I only meant an exploration of the concept by people who:
1. know what wolfpacks are
2. know what programming looks like
We already have tons of posts about wolfpacks yet almost none of that information is of any use for Ubi or for later modders. A better understading of the concept would help the devs more than just threatening them that we won't buy the game.

[GlobalExplorer]

Compile a document "implementing wolfpacks in a submarine simulation" and send it to UBI. I am sure if it covers several pages, addresses gameplay mechanics and results of surveys among the community, it will be read and might have an influence on their future games.

You don't even need to cover programming and AI at this stage. I am sure that UBI is interested mostly what people would expect in terms of gameplay and how it could be integrated in their engine. There was a similar move that led to the inclusion of the dynamic campaign (and a six month delay of the sim) in 2005.

But as long as the discussion is restricted to cocky comments by noobs it will amount to nothing but a circlejerk. No developer at UBI will have time or interest to read it.

[denis_469]

It's too early to tell, but basically it looks like SH3/4 with better graphics, full interior access, a much more strategic dynamic campaign, and with realism options for causal players (ship health bars, better enemy visual/sonar/radar range tools, etc). I fully support adding elements that make the game playable for the arcade/action game crowd, damn right. Of course, as long as it is scalable, has realism options that allow guys like me to have a fully manual TDC, no contacts update map, etc. Wouldn't it be great to sell the game to 120,000 hard core subsim players and 300,000 "shoot em up" action players? :()1:

I think the strategic dynamic campaign elements will add the most gameplay. As designed, when you attack a supply convoy it will affect the land battles, the routes of future convoys, and the enemy's ASW response.

AI Wolfpacks are .... well, they don't know yet if they will be in the game, if they will be very minimal, like AOD. I hope they are able to include AI wolfpacks, I think it would be a big letdown not to have "shadow convoy" objectives, where you must stay in contact with a convoy, not get too close so you are driven under and you lose the convoy; not too far away that you lose the convoy in the night; not attack until the other U-boats are in position (breaking that order and you lose command). This would add a lot of gameplay to the SH series and I believe it must be included.

Bad "no contacts update map" - it's mean, that in submarines not work radio DF. But it's work in real life. Programming himself war - not realism. As himself tarheting compaign target. Best AI ASW ships with attack you boats with data you pesonal eperience is excellent. It's would be very hard on 100% level. Very, very hard. And it's realistic. If from you victories woyld be future war is unreal total. No one submarine commander not can win war. It's alternative history. May be best, if war was as real?

[PL_Andrev]

What about ANSWERS for this topic?

"Questions for the SH5 dev team???"
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155427

[JU_88]

What about ANSWERS for this topic?

"Questions for the SH5 dev team???"
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155427

me thinks the Devs would have to take an entire day off work just answer all that lot :D

[Hitman]

There was a similar move that led to the inclusion of the dynamic campaign (and a six month delay of the sim) in 2005

Now wouldn't that be a marketing idea for UBI? We know SH5 will come out with wolfpacks in 2011, but we want to keep people interested and thinking we change our plans according to their wishes, so we announce it first for 2010 without wolfpacks, and then say it will pushed to 2011 to include them :D

As long as the Devs are given the necessary time and resources for doing their job as they are satisfied, I will sure be happy with what they pull out :up:

[Seeadler]

Now wouldn't that be a marketing idea for UBI?
Yves Guillemot - CEO Ubisoft: "More game delays coming"
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/35780/Guillemot-Expect-further-game-delays

[Arclight]

It's just the blockbuster titles that get pushed back really, just because they want the spotlight to themselfs. :-?

[JU_88]

It's just the blockbuster titles that get pushed back really, just because they want the spotlight to themselfs. :-?

Yeah I dont think SHV is in too much danger of this.
Publishers nomally pull this stunt to avoid competition between either their own titles, or between there own and those of a rival. (where their is conflict of intreast - e.g. 2 major FPS titles released weeks or days apart)
In the case of SHV its a pretty unique genre these days.
I would guess that Silent hunters lack of competition plays a significant part towards its own success.

I also heard that sims titles in general sell quite steadily over a long period time - for the above reason.

[COLEY]

I agree wholeheartedly. We've been screaming about Wolfpacks since SH3. If we got a fully modeled interior of the sub (which, while I'm sure looks pretty cool, adds absolutely nothing to gameplay) and no wolfpacks (which would add tremendously to gameplay)...I think that would be a huge oversight and a very severe case of misplaced priorities. SH4 made the mistake of placing eye candy over gameplay (heck, you can even take it a step further to say it made the mistake of placing eye candy over having a working game) and I'd hate to see the same mistake repeated with SH5.

It's so integral to the Battle of the Atlantic that not having wolfpacks in a U-boat game is like not having a Type VII submarine in the game.


In the ideal world you'd have both (thinking about why can't we have both?), but i'd rather add to the gameplay than bother about the eye candy as well. SH3 wasn't an ugly game, and the chance to call in a wolfpack on an unsuspecting convoy would be lots and lots of fun as opposed to having wonderful sea textures etc etc. Regardless of what we end up with we're all still gonna pre order it and be engrossed in it when it comes out!:salute:

[FIREWALL]

As far as I'm concerned SHV HAS Wolfpacks in it until someone can prove otherwise. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

As far as I'm concerned SHV HAS Wolfpacks in it until someone can prove otherwise. :yep:

The truth is out there...does anybody know the url?

[JU_88]

the truth is out there...does anybody know the url?

You cant handle the truth! :88)

[Jimbuna]

You cant handle the truth! :88)

Maybe...but I can sure as hell falsify it :O:

[Rip]

Maybe...but I can sure as hell falsify it :O:

And I can neither confirm nor deny it.

:salute::hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

The truth is out there...does anybody know the url?

You cant handle the truth! :88)

Maybe...but I can sure as hell falsify it :O:

And I can neither confirm nor deny it.

:salute::hmmm:

:har::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::har: :salute: :DL

[GlobalExplorer]

I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this thread is too small to contain.

[SteamWake]

Just a thought and in the spirit of this thread.

I thought to myself while playing SH4 Hrm ... I spend 90% of my time looking at the 2D map.

Im already able to wander the sub a bit with camera changes by mods but dont really use it much.

While it will be very cool to be able to amble about the subs interior and such... most likely 90% of play time will be spend looking at the map.

[Onkel Neal]

Oh, another tidbit: ships will have snow and icecicles in arctic climes.

[SteamWake]

Oh, another tidbit: ships will have snow and icecicles in arctic climes.

Thats cool.... get it ... cool :haha::har:

I can see it now... "Honey why is the air conditioner set to 50 degrees?"

[Alex]

Oh, another tidbit: ships will have snow and icecicles in arctic climes.

Great ! :DL
Hope U-Boote will show some weathering too. :D
Don't want to appear too insistent :oops:... But will we see falling snow in this 5th episode of SH ? :hmmm:

:smug:

[Rosencrantz]

Looks both promissing and scary to me... :hmmm:


-RC-

[Snestorm]

Same here.

[martes86]

For those of you that can read Spanish, here's some stuff for ya:
http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=34578

Not much, and not finished, but there's something to get amused for a while. :DL


Still waiting for good spare time to transcribe my notes from the presentation (in Spanish first, of course) and uploading more pics/videos from the meet.

Cheers

[Kpt. Lehmann]

As designed, when you attack a supply convoy it will affect the land battles, the routes of future convoys, and the enemy's ASW response.



Changing convoy routes following convoy engagements is a cool idea... and indirectly simulates the use of Enigma decrypts by the allies... :up: VERY COOL IMHO!

...however, I hope that the "affect on land battles" can be turned off by the player. Something similar was done with Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator III years ago... and it creates a hokey historical 'revisionism.' :down: Not cool AT ALL IMHO.

Sorry if this has already been covered here in this thread... I just don't have the time that I used to, to read everything.

I've got no problem with 'arcaders' being courted by the game... as long as it can truly be scaled to at least the simulation that SH3 became. It is the simulator-seekers and 'hardcore' players that ultimately carry the genre IMHO. Whatever is done, I think the devs shouldn't take any steps backwards there.

SH4 devs, if you are able to achieve the creation of wolfpacks in SH5... preferably on a limited basis within the dynamic campaign... without the players being able to directly communicate with other members of those wolfpacks... and AI torpedo firing AI subs... you will have scored a MAJOR victory with this community.

Please also consider adding 'proximity switches' to AI subs... allowing them to dive within a certain distance of the enemy... You will be heroes to everyone here. It can be done... we added 'proximity switches' to AI subs in GWX 3.0 testing which caused them to dive and later resurface. The only thing that we could not do... was to cause them to not be seen as "submerged" by surface vessels. Submerged AI subs were fired on as if they were surfaced.

[dcb]

For those of you that can read Spanish, here's some stuff for ya:
http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=34578

Thank you Martes for the info (and thanks to Yahoo for the automatic translator;) though its translations are rather tricky to understand)

I could not be in Copenhagen myself, so maybe I didn't get things right. Anyway, judging by what I read, there is a whole lot of things still not implemented or in work, just 6 months before the release. I wonder if they'll be able to meet the March 2010 deadline. If not, I'd prefer Ubisoft holds the game until the devs have time to do their job right. Else, if they're forced to put the game on market without the planned features being fully functional, then we're heading to another SH3&4-style bugfest. I'd rather play a good game - say - in September 2010 than wait for the crucial patch with the game on shelf.
There's only six months until the set release date (and we can bar December from the list - it's Holiday, and the last 2 weeks before release, which will be dedicated to burning the disks, packaging them and sending them to retailers). This leaves some 4 months of proper work on the sim - very short, in game development term, AFAIK.
Here are a few things that look still far from being ready (sorry for the Yahoo translation):


- They said to me that the Asincrònico operation of the motors port-starboard was high in the list of priorities stops after finishing the strong campaign. Nevertheless, we debated that to implement this it supposes to them to make changes in the interface (basically, using one's wits itself like including it), but the important thing was the discussion on the problems to implement the compensation of direction with the rudders.

- It would be then possible to also do that when we see the U-boot by external camera, to see as the artillerymen load the 88 of cover or machine guns?
In the version of the presentation, habia crew in cover, because according to they said to me, was not even made the animations corresponding, but they have confirmed to me that we will see those details (in fact, we will be able to also see as the crew lubricates and loads the torpedoes in the tubes, so she is of drawer).

- If we sailed by the North Atlantic, or the winter is not had to notice, that if sailing by North emisferio?
In the presentation of SH5 they parecian to have climatologic effects. Not so drastic, but existing. Soon they confirmed to me that different states from meteorology habran several models 3D by boat reflecting.

- What so a machine enigma in which to receive the communications of bdu?
I do not have answer of this, although debatio and we thought that serious something very peculiar in the simulator, I believe perhaps that it does not appeal to the “facility of handling” that wants, reason why we do not see this in SH5.

[tonschk]

2 - Funcionamiento asincrònico de los motores babor-estribor ( uno sí, otro no, uno avante, otro atras toda, etc. ) Y que afecten el curso!
Me dijeron que esto estaba alto en la lista de prioridades para despues de terminar la campaña dinamica. Sin embargo, debatimos que implementar esto les supone hacer cambios en la interfaz (basicamente, el ingeniarse como incluirlo), pero lo mas importante era la discusion sobre los problemas de implementar la compensacion de direccion con los timones. Si bien, no parece mucho problema para los submarinos alemanes (por que tenian helices y timones dobles, o eso concluimos), tenian en mente las dificultades de implementar la compensacion para los casos en que se implementasen otros tipos de submarinos (se hablaba de POSIBLES expansiones y cosas que añadiesen nuevos submarinos de otras armadas, y de como intentar compensar en esos nuevos submarinos si podia ser un problema al ser diferentes modelos de propulsion y navegacion). Si alguno sabeis de este tema (ODSH? http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/images/smilies/disimulo.gif ), podriamos hacer "feedback" directo a los desarrolladores para que consigan que funcione correctamente esta caracteristica.



Translation

The DEVS consider the implementation of independent control of left/right engine hight in the list of priorities but the main problem ( after the build of a interface to manage this ) is the direction/compensation problem with the rudders , this does not look difficult to do with the german subs which have two rudders and two propellers but can be difficult to implement in other subs after the ADDON of Expansions which have other new subs of other countries , those new subs can have different ways for propultion and steering and therefore the compensation problem can be different


.

[martes86]

Thank you Martes for the info (and thanks to Yahoo for the automatic translator;) though its translations are rather tricky to understand)

I could not be in Copenhagen myself, so maybe I didn't get things right. Anyway, judging by what I read, there is a whole lot of things still not implemented or in work, just 6 months before the release. I wonder if they'll be able to meet the March 2010 deadline. If not, I'd prefer Ubisoft holds the game until the devs have time to do their job right. Else, if they're forced to put the game on market without the planned features being fully functional, then we're heading to another SH3&4-style bugfest. I'd rather play a good game - say - in September 2010 than wait for the crucial patch with the game on shelf.
There's only six months until the set release date (and we can bar December from the list - it's Holiday, and the last 2 weeks before release, which will be dedicated to burning the disks, packaging them and sending them to retailers). This leaves some 4 months of proper work on the sim - very short, in game development term, AFAIK.

Well, the translators need exact and proper orthography and grammar (impossible in regular participations without parsing all posts with Word before posting), I should've tried to correct the stuff a little. Anyways, I'll try to make a proper translation for you guys of everything that comes out.

I think they have enough time to nix all those things that didn't seem finished. After all, it was a presentation version (though patched right there), so it probably was missing the newest stuff or almost-complete stuff. Also, in my opinion, some stuff isn't that complicated to do, just a little down the task list, so I don't think we should worry too much about. Also, we all unanimously agreed on the fiasco that SH4's early relase represented, so I don't think that scenario is very likely to repeat itself again, at least not with SH5.


Translation

The DEVS consider the implementation of independent control of left/right engine hight in the list of priorities but the main problem ( after the build of a interface to manage this ) is the direction/compensation problem with the rudders , this does not look difficult to do with the german subs which have two rudders and two propellers but can be difficult to implement in other subs after the ADDON of Expansions which have other new subs of other countries , those new subs can have different ways for propultion and steering and therefore the compensation problem can be different

A little note I'd like to make here. I think the translation may give the wrong impression about the addons part. In the Spanish version, I said that we were talking about what it might represent for POSSIBLE future expansions that MAY (or MAY NOT) include submarines from other nations, but nothing solid right now, just talks and plans, and conjectures.

Cheers

[haegemon]

Don't worry modders will do de job :salute:


The feedback...about the interface they can add a parameter to the submarine object, and use as interface a rudder "image" with two levers where people clicks on the levers directly.
And how to compensate de propulsion. They would need a block of program code for every kind of simulation (one or two helix, rotation to the left or to the right).

I'll post it in programmer argot an example of how it could work:

twin_drive = [On=1 /Off=0]
var_lever1 (interface imputs)
var_lever2 (interface imputs)
var_helix1 (propeller)
var_helix2 (propeller)
controller_code1 (for nomal subs impulse)
controller_code2 (for twin helix submarines)


*state variable defaults

var_lever1_visible = 1
var_lever2_visible = 1
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever2
twin drive = 1
var_controller = controller_code2


[Controller_code1]

more code....
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever1
var_lever2 = 0


[Controller_code2]

more code....
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever2
var_lever2 = 1

-----------------

if twin_drive = 1
var_controller = Controller_code2
elseif
var_controller = Controller_code1
elseif
...
...
end if

Programmers will know how it's their engine and why if they can't apply this logic or how to do it.

[Semtex]

Don't worry modders will do de job :salute:

:yeah:

[Safe-Keeper]

...however, I hope that the "affect on land battles" can be turned off by the player. Something similar was done with Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator III years ago... and it creates a hokey historical 'revisionism.' :down: Not cool AT ALL IMHO. Depends on how it's implemented. It was a complaint among many of us that no matter how well you fought, the war trudged on as if you didn't exist. Your actions should have an effect on the game, even if those effects are tiny.

In even simpler terms: Guys, stop posting ridiculous pseudocode, someone from UBI might actually read this and get pissed off by this .. kind of conversation.IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite.true
THEN
ignore
endif

[JScones]

IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite.true
THEN
ignore
endif
[COMPILER ERROR] Incorrect typecast 'GlobalExplorer' to 'IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite'
[COMPILER FATAL ERROR] Too many crappy attempts at code in this thread
[COMPILER HINT] Define business requirements; leave system specifications to professionals

[TDK1044]

[COMPILER ERROR] Incorrect typecast 'GlobalExplorer' to 'IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite'
[COMPILER FATAL ERROR] Too many crappy attempts at code in this thread
[COMPILER HINT] Define business requirements; leave system specifications to professionals

:rock:

[kapitan_zur_see]

Just a thought and in the spirit of this thread.

I thought to myself while playing SH4 Hrm ... I spend 90% of my time looking at the 2D map.

Im already able to wander the sub a bit with camera changes by mods but dont really use it much.

While it will be very cool to be able to amble about the subs interior and such... most likely 90% of play time will be spend looking at the map.

Can't agree more! that's why having all the sub modelled has to serve some gameplay purpose! otherwise, it'll just finish like some kind of museum tour. You'll make the all around the boat trip for educational purpose and then won't make it again... Dev make it also so damages can be seen in each compartments so you'd rush there to inspect, see water gradually level up inside compartment etc.

[Sulikate]

Oh, another tidbit: ships will have snow and icecicles in arctic climes.
Nice touch :arrgh!:

[floundericiousWA]

Can't agree more! that's why having all the sub modelled has to serve some gameplay purpose! otherwise, it'll just finish like some kind of museum tour. You'll make the all around the boat trip for educational purpose and then won't make it again... Dev make it also so damages can be seen in each compartments so you'd rush there to inspect, see water gradually level up inside compartment etc.


:D That would be nice, but I don't know that I'd want the devs spending time doing that...

Well, ok...but only if you can then personally turn the crank on the hatch and lock Bernard in the flooding compartment!!! :arrgh!:

[martes86]

That seems to be tricky. The hardest thing seems to be modelating the water's hydrodinamics, it's behaviour inside the closed space, with the sub rolling and all that, though they might give it a try. :DL

[tonschk]

I think the increasing level of animated Water filling the damaged compartments , is a nice touch of realism :D , I hope the developers can add this feature to SH5

[FAdmiral]

The more real they make it, the better I will like it. Voice commands
to the crew instead of the old mouse & keyboard. Fat chance !!!

JIM

[Hartmann]

If half life and other action games can model rooms with water , why not sh5 ?

[maerean_m]

[COMPILER ERROR] Incorrect typecast 'GlobalExplorer' to 'IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite'
[COMPILER FATAL ERROR] Too many crappy attempts at code in this thread
[COMPILER HINT] Define business requirements; leave system specifications to professionals
That's the purpose of the forum, to let people express themselves. No harm done when programmers also express themselves.


The thing is that if Silent Hunter would include everything you guys have requested, it would truly be a WORLD simulation, which would be fine by me, but would take forever to implement. The only possible approach is to take it one step at a time. And as you can already see, SH5 is a way bigger step than SH4.

[maerean_m]

If half life and other action games can model rooms with water , why not sh5 ?
When water enters the submarine, it will fill all the rooms (unless the doors are closed). If a door is closed and has water behind it and you try to open it, it comes to comparing human strength to water pressure. Typically, the player's avatar doesn't really has any strength modeled into it (which would be affected by muscle mass, fatigue, morale and the level of CO2).

If you open the door, there will be a significant difference in water level between the two rooms. Simulating water rushing through a door into a room filled with all sorts of objects (torpedoes, pipes, people) is very complex. And also rendering it. If this is realized, the today's computers might not handle it. At least, the average computer sitting on our desks.

If you can't open the door, the water level will get above the head and you have to see the sonar man noticing this and getting off his chair and starting to swim to and through the hatch to the command room and them swimming up to the deck.

Compared to a normal game, the submarine's crew can fight the flood and you have to be to see them doing that (using the pumps or even water buckets).

You would want to see all sorts of wet surfaces: metal, fabric and skin. And the navigation map in the command room to start floating.


The effort to get this done is better to be put into something else at the moment (maybe wolfpacks). Maybe in SH6, when there's nothing else to be done.

And when it will be done, you should build the devs a statue, next to the Little Mermaid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid_%28statue%29). :arrgh!:

[THE_MASK]

omg , he said wolfpacks YES .

[Arclight]

When water enters the submarine, it will fill all the rooms (unless the doors are closed). If a door is closed and has water behind it and you try to open it, it comes to comparing human strength to water pressure. Typically, the player's avatar doesn't really has any strength modeled into it (which would be affected by muscle mass, fatigue, morale and the level of CO2).

If you open the door, there will be a significant difference in water level between the two rooms. Simulating water rushing through a door into a room filled with all sorts of objects (torpedoes, pipes, people) is very complex. And also rendering it. If this is realized, the today's computers might not handle it. At least, the average computer sitting on our desks.

If you can't open the door, the water level will get above the head and you have to see the sonar man noticing this and getting off his chair and starting to swim to and through the hatch to the command room and them swimming up to the deck.

Compared to a normal game, the submarine's crew can fight the flood and you have to be to see them doing that (using the pumps or even water buckets).

You would want to see all sorts of wet surfaces: metal, fabric and skin. And the navigation map in the command room to start floating.


The effort to get this done is better to be put into something else at the moment (maybe wolfpacks). Maybe in SH6, when there's nothing else to be done.

And when it will be done, you should build the devs a statue, next to the Little Mermaid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid_%28statue%29). :arrgh!:
If you manage to pull that one off, you will have your statue. It might not be spectacular, 'cause let's face it, I'm about as artistic as a goldfish, but a statue you will have. ;)


Maybe just a static (non-dynamic, but animated surface) texture as a visual indicator of flooding levels. :hmmm:

[The General]

maeraen_m you make some excellent points. Taking the time to do something like wolfpacks is a much more realistic objective at this time. Will you be simulating the coordination of attacks between the pack over the radio? Historically, was this even done?

P.s. Can you boys cobble together a couple more screenshots for your loyal fans?
:salute:

[Reece]

maeraen_m Said:
SH5 is a way bigger step than SH4.Like the sound of that!:yep:

[Nuc]

omg , he said wolfpacks YES .

He also said "maybe" :hmmm: but then he did say SH6 :woot:

[martes86]

If half life and other action games can model rooms with water , why not sh5 ?

Different engine, different features and optimization. And, it's not a matter of "that game does this and that", that just dumbs down the discussion and simplifies the developing process, which is by no means a simple and easy task.

[Sonarman]

Elanaiba (Dan the dev on addons) posted over at SimHQ

"the only two real submarine campaigns - with enough content and story to sustain a full price game and therefore the associated development costs - are the US and Germans ones. The Italians, British and all the rest would have to wait for addons, mods or another limited investment. There are ways to get to them, and we probably will. "


Read Dan's whole posting & join the debate on the topic "I don't get the fascination with the Nazis" over at SimHq (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2867932/Re_I_don_t_get_the_fascination.html#Post2867932)

[tonschk]

I agree , the addition of too many new features ( animations ) is very difficult , and like everything else is a matter of step by step , I am already very Very Happy with the new Included Dynamic Shadows feature :yeah:, the realistic flooding animations with the crew and the increasing water inside the damaged compartments can be added may be in SH6 or SH7 :DL


I think the sound track of the new SH5 " may be " can be the same of SH4 , because the sound track of SH4 actually is very beautyful and I think is nice to associate in our memory the already popular music of SH4 to this Silent Hunter serie of games, but I am not sure , may be there are some reasons because SH5 must have a total new and different sound track

[Hitman]

You'll get your statue, but give us wolfpacks :D

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7445/dsc03149c.jpg

[tonschk]

In my opinion the possibility to slow-down or speed-up the Left and Right engines independently probably is the next most important new feature to include in SH5

[elanaiba]

Elanaiba (Dan the dev on addons) posted over at SimHQ

(...)

Read Dan's whole posting & join the debate on the topic "I don't get the fascination with the Nazis" over at SimHq (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2867932/Re_I_don_t_get_the_fascination.html#Post2867932)

Oh bugger, I was spotted!

[Dowly]

Oh bugger, I was spotted!

Hah, you though you can do anything in the internet without atleast one subsim member following you? Now, give us an update or I'll tell everyone which dirty sites you visited last night! :O:

[pythos]

I would prefer more time spent on making sure that the bugs of SH4 are removed, such as the bridge crew staying on the bridge with the boat under water, and consequently getting killed by depth charges. I liked how in sh3 the crew would move to the appropriate stations in certain conditions automatically. I also hope to not have to deal with a slighly damaged boat going for the dive of death.

The near silence of the hull when the boat is descending or ascending was really a let down. Sh3 modeled this correctly, but for some reason SH4 lacked this, and instead only made those sounds when the boat was taking damage.

I do want wolf packs, but also a working DF system.

To be honest the independent engine/motor control is so low on my list of wants it isn't funny. This could add unnecessary complexity and have priorities switch from other important things. The props are so close to the boat's centerline, I would think there would be very little difference with independent engine control. Other wise the boat would be near impossible to keep in a straight line when charging batteries, due to one prop being disengaged.

As far as the flooding and rising water being rendered, good god!!! I'll just save up for the kray computer, cause that would be a big drag on most anyone's systems

[haegemon]

If they want to apply animations to crew operations, just before diving, crew should go into submarine and lock hatches. The same when surfacing, crew shoul go out.

That would imply some seconds before being able to dive and make the whole operation less automatic.

[Onkel Neal]

I do want wolf packs, but also a working DF system.





Yeah, righto, the aspect of DF will add a lot to the convoy shadowing and wolfpack gameplay :rock:

[FIREWALL]

Just don't dumb down the sim for the sake of users who can barely run SH4.

At 2010 users of these sims and other new games should at least have Duo-core, 2gb of ram and a PCI-e vid card at 512mb. This stuff is cheap now.

And I don't want to hear the crap about... Struggling family man or student. If you can afford internet, you can afford to upgrade. If not.....

GO MOW LAWNS.

[JU_88]

Oh bugger, I was spotted!

ALLLAAARRRRMMMMM!!!! :rotfl2:

[DarkFish]

And I don't want to hear the crap about... Struggling family man or student. If you can afford internet, you can afford to upgrade. If not.....

GO MOW LAWNS.You clearly do not know what you're talking about:nope:
You can get broadband internet for €20 a household a month (1st 6 months for €10) while a decent videocard costs like €150. That's equivalent to eleven months of internet if your not sharing it with your housemates. And buying a cheaper card... then I'd have to buy a new one each year because of my card getting old again.
I'm a student myself and I can simply not afford a good video card. And then telling me to go mow lawns...:down: Ever been a student? My gaming time is already limited to breaks and two or three late night hours off. So don't dare telling me to skip those too and work instead.

if the devs decide to go with 512mb cards as a minimum requirement, that's ok, it's their game after all, but DO NOT TELL ME TO GO MOW LAWNS:mad:

(don't get me wrong - I have nothing against you in person and respect you as a fellow subsimmer, but I find your above statement extremely inappropriate)

[FIREWALL]

You clearly do not know what you're talking about:nope:
You can get broadband internet for €20 a household a month (1st 6 months for €10) while a decent videocard costs like €150. That's equivalent to eleven months of internet if your not sharing it with your housemates. And buying a cheaper card... then I'd have to buy a new one each year because of my card getting old again.
I'm a student myself and I can simply not afford a good video card. And then telling me to go mow lawns...:down: Ever been a student? My gaming time is already limited to breaks and two or three late night hours off. So don't dare telling me to skip those too and work instead.

if the devs decide to go with 512mb cards as a minimum requirement, that's ok, it's their game after all, but DO NOT TELL ME TO GO MOW LAWNS:mad:

(don't get me wrong - I have nothing against you in person and respect you as a fellow subsimmer, but I find your above statement extremely inappropriate)

Nobody told YOU to go mow a lawn.

But I get tired of hearig... " Make it run to my SH3 specs"

And my above statements are their answers. I don't see the sense in buying a game that their rig won't play.

You should read the SH5 posts more closely. There's more than a few that post they have to play SH4 at low settings and don't want to upgrade.

So I stand by my post as appropriate.:DL

[martes86]

Ok, while I don't think the statement was polite enough, he had a valid point. I've also been a student until last year. And even then, I got myself a decent GC. How? I became a Programming Basics teacher during the summer vacations, so I got the money to buy myself a x1950 512MB. Of course, I've been a workless student for a while, so I had to rely on presents to get new PCs. If there was an uber-game I loved, I'd just wait to get my chance, but I knew there was no way I'd ever be able to play without the upgrade, so I accepted the fact that devs were never going to make the effort (useless effort anyways) so that I could play with my elder PC configuration while everyone else had already surpassed the standard, and I became patient about it. Last year I finished my Technician course, and I was hired by an IT multinational, so I didn't need that much patience. That's how last Xmas I was able to finally play GTA4. Patience and selfsacrifice, that's what you need and not just bothering devs with obsolete requirements while most people have a decent rig already.

And since I know what I'm talking about:

Ever been a student? My gaming time is already limited to breaks and two or three late night hours off. So don't dare telling me to skip those too and work instead.

I dare tell you to skip gaming time and work harder. I worked hard for 2 years, I didn't even got out much (if ever) during those years. The result, some useful money, and good marks. Gaming is a bad distraction, I tell you from experience.

Cheers

[Reece]

The game should be made to run on todays machines IMO, however, most games also have graphics settings you can change to run on older machines, this means the game will still be quite awesome in years to come, with upgrading you can up the settings!:yep:

[Jimbuna]

The game should be made to run on todays machines IMO, however, most games also have graphics settings you can change to run on older machines, this means the game will still be quite awesome in years to come, with upgrading you can up the settings!:yep:

Fair and balanced....one size will never fit all. :yep:

[DarkFish]

But I get tired of hearig... " Make it run to my SH3 specs" [...] There's more than a few that post they have to play SH4 at low settings and don't want to upgrade.Well, you've got some point there. I know I've got a rig that can possibly not run SH5 but I don't go complaining about it. IMO the devs should make the game as good as possible and if that means I can't run it - so be it. It's my problem and I don't go bother other people with it.:up:
still, I think you could've put this statement a little bit more politely.
[...] but I knew there was no way I'd ever be able to play without the upgrade, so I accepted the fact that devs were never going to make the effort (useless effort anyways) so that I could play with my elder PC configuration while everyone else had already surpassed the standard, and I became patient about it.[...]I absolutely agree with you here. The video card memory poll shows 80% of all people have 512mb or more so it'd be a valid and wise decision for the devs to go with that as a minimum requirement:yep:
I dare tell you to skip gaming time and work harder. I worked hard for 2 years, I didn't even got out much (if ever) during those years. The result, some useful money, and good marks. Gaming is a bad distraction, I tell you from experience.Well, that's you. But me, I like to go out and have fun too instead of studying/working 24/7. I wouldn't survive if I had a life like yours.:dead:

[Snestorm]

My machine, as is, can't handle SH5.
The poll, however, does show that 512 is a number already achieved by a large majority.
Therefor, 512 is a good target, and my getting a new grafik card is pretty much required.
That's life. No complaints here. Bring on that soup.

[martes86]

Well, that's you. But me, I like to go out and have fun too instead of studying/working 24/7. I wouldn't survive if I had a life like yours.:dead:

Oh, believe me, the effort pays. Now I go to work in the morning, I do my 10 hours out, get back home, and do whatever I want. A little sacrifice has given me a whole world of unlimited fun, and a good payment (fair enough for a relatively unexperienced guy like me) every month. Now I work, and when I get home, I can have as much fun as I want, or buy tons of stuff. I went to the SubSim Meet this year in Copenhaguen precisely because of this (and it was no cheap travel). Because you're not gonna be your whole life studying. Sure, I might after some time need some upgrades, and so I'll have to study again some stuff, to still be in the market, but for now, I'm done. :DL

[rosentorf]

No worries, captains with small PCnises... By the time the game runs smoothly you'll be able to grow a bigger one! :rotfl2:

Pimp the sh*t out of SH5!!! :rock:

P.S.: When SH4 came out my system couldn't deal with it either. But I did not mind playing it on low settings...most of the time I am looking at the 2D-map anyway. I doubt it will be different in SH5! And since it is not a FPS I didn't mind the low frame rate too when I was peeking through the periscope.
If it will be the same with SH5 so be it! It'll be just the sweeter when I finally get a faster PC to enjoy a great game (as I am sure it will be) with top notch graphics!!!

[USS Sea Tiger]

Sir,,

Did they happen to say what U-boat types would be available, I.E> Type I Type IIA Type XXIII??

also, Did they mention inwhat format the modeling would be so that we can prepare for our updates?


On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

[Jimbuna]

yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

But that did add to the longevity of the game http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Sonarman]

The video card memory poll shows 80% of all people have 512mb or more so it'd be a valid and wise decision for the devs to go with that as a minimum requirement:yep:


I'm not so sure, 20% of your customers is a lot to throw away in a niche product like SH, the last thing we want to do is decrease the audience as that would undoubtably mean no SH6 and beyond. Scalability as always is the key.

[martes86]

I'm not so sure, 20% of your customers is a lot to throw away in a niche product like SH, the last thing we want to do is decrease the audience as that would undoubtably mean no SH6 and beyond. Scalability as always is the key.

Yeah but that's here. Remember that the devs want to appeal not only to us subsimmers, but to the general public as well. Doing a sim that's stuck in the older technologies because 20% of the subsimmers can't handle new stuff is a big error, in order to appeal to that public, you have to improve what you're doing, or risk being seen as an old product unable to go forward and have some decent today's standard level of graphics, which is usually a big reason for the so called "casual players" to get into the SH saga, while anything else comes after getting hooked by the cool graphics. We can request for as many weird simulation features that "casual players" won't even notice, but you can't skip the graphics.

And still... there's plenty of hardware with power nowadays, why mismanage that power and let other games have it? Can't the Silent Hunters look like Crysys for example? We're not even close to that yet, but with time, we probably will be, as it is inevitable with every new iteration within the SH saga for the graphics engine to grow beyond its previous scope.



Did they happen to say what U-boat types would be available, I.E> Type I Type IIA Type XXIII??

also, Did they mention inwhat format the modeling would be so that we can prepare for our updates?

We'll get the basics: II, VII, IX. Anything else, is still undecided, but if a poll was held, I'd say that the XXI has the most points (I wouldn't mind that part to be occupied by a human playable DD though :D ).

The internal modelling format will be the widespread 3DS. The external stuff we'll see is in the GR2 format, newly made, I guess to appoint for the new changes in the graphics engine.

Cheers

[EXT64]

I would like to point out though that while I'm sure SH5 will require more card than SH4, looking at it from a purely memory standpoint is a mistake. Memory certainly is part of the equation, however I'd really say it is smaller than the GPU in importance. Here's why:

If you have an older GC, you probably have an older monitor as well. Older monitor probably means lower resolution. More vram is most beneficial for higher resolution displays as it needs a bigger buffer for the renders. In other words, if you have a 256MB GC, don't give up. However, if you have a very low end Graphics processor, you might want to look into saving up for a new one. Decent cards can be had in the $50 (USD) area, so while certainly not free, you are already going to spend $50 for the game, why not put equal into the computer you will be playing it on? I know of some fairly high resolution games that ran fine on a 256MB vram card at 1280x1024, so I doubt SH5 at med/low will exceed that.

[THE_MASK]

I bet SH5 will have a minimum of 256mb graphics card ram and a recommended of 512mg graphics ram . In the end i would say 512 will be the real minimum to play with all graphic settings on high :yep:

[Fluffysheap]

Actually, render buffer is a quite small portion of the total video memory nowadays. Texture and model data use much more memory, and these are required for model detail. The lowest sensible resolution at this point is 1280x1024, which (including 32-bit color, z-buffer, and double buffer) is only 15MB of memory.

More to the point it is uncommon to buy a 256MB video card since 2007 (and 512MB video cards were readily available in 2006, but most of the people that would buy such a card will upgrade before four years anyway). The game is released in 2010, I think it is not unreasonable to expect a video card 3 years old or newer. Today, it is possible to get a capable video card for cheap, briefly looking around I see ATI 4670 with 1GB which is a quite nice card actually for only $55... and the 4850 which is recommended for SH5 by the devs costs $100, today. You can expect these prices will have come down even more by the time the game is released!

Everyone involved in PC gaming has to just accept that periodically hardware upgrades are required, but by buying an older-model card every year or two, you will benefit from always having adequate hardware for not very much money. You will never have the latest thing but you will always have something that is adequate. (Works for other stuff too... how much is a Core 2 8000-series motherboard and CPU these days?)

[elanaiba]

On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

Silent Hunter is mainly a single player game, and modding improves its life on players computers.

Without mods, I bet people wouldn't play SH3 anymore. They do it because NYGM, GW and all othre mods have improved the game and "made it new".

IL-2, on the other hand, is much stronger on the MP side. And for MP, version compatibility, hacker protection and other such factors become much more important. And lets not forget that IL-2 has kept evolving on the developer side. I cant remember all the patches and addons I had to install in my online IL2 career (Bellum wars anyone?).

[EXT64]

True on the render buffer, however still I would be a bit surprised if the textures in SH5 required that much memory even with improved textures just because of the environment being rendered. Regardless, it is a fairly moot point as we are seeing as most recent cards have 512MB + or ram. However if the card has all the ram in the world but a weak GPU, it will do worse than a card with 512/256 MB ram. The main point I was trying to make was both halves of the equation should be discussed. Saying less than 512MB = fail and greater than or equal to 512MB = succeed is not really true. I know nobody said that directly, but i just wanted to make sure it was clear to all.

[TheDarkWraith]

Actually, render buffer is a quite small portion of the total video memory nowadays. Texture and model data use much more memory, and these are required for model detail. The lowest sensible resolution at this point is 1280x1024, which (including 32-bit color, z-buffer, and double buffer) is only 15MB of memory.

I'm no expert in Direct X but I have played around with it. You are forgetting about the stencil buffer and maybe the developers of the game are rendering to more than one back buffer. There could be other buffers also. What about shaders? They take up video memory. But your point is correct, these buffers and shaders use a very small portion of the available video card memory.

Also in the video card discussion you need to account for what shader version it supports amid other things, Specifically what are it's capabilities? How many lights can it handle at one time? Whether this is GPU dependant or not I don't know. I just grab a Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3D.DeviceCaps structure and query what the end user's video card has or doesn't have to know what my applications and games can do based on the user's system.

[gutted]

On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

Thats because IL-2 had a huge multiplayer following. And allowing outright modification of files would not jive well. Silent Hunter is not really multiplayer oriented.

[pythos]

No firewall, your post was inappropriate in the way you said it.

We are currently involved in a world wide recession, and many of us (including your truly) are without a job, through no fault of our own.

That being said I can see your point. I too would like a game that looks stunning, runs smooth as silk, and is a great game to play with few bugs.

Flight sim is very good at allowing lower end machines run their latest simulator. Give the player A LOT of sliders to control the level of detail rendered. As the player get the money, they can upgrade and boost the levels.

Your post however came off as elitist, eg "I can afford to upgrade my machine, to hell with everyone else that can't".

When I first read your post the terms "A^% Ho(*, came to mind, and I am sure you did not mean to draw such a thought.

[karamazovnew]

I've played games with ugly graphics that bog down my pc (a preety good pc I might add) and I've also played games with amazing graphics that were stuck at 60 fps (i have a lcd monitor) :haha:. We don't live in the age of Half Life anymore. I've even played a game (can't remember which) that moved just as bad at low graphics as it did at very high settings. Fortunately, SH5 is only made for the PC (I hate console ports :damn:) so I really hope it will be well optimised. To be honest, I was never too impressed with SH4 's frame rate. :hmmm:

[sav112]

Firewall has the basic point although it came over wrong. I have a five year old system that I still play BF2. As nothing game wise was out that interested me I was happy to keep it going. I’d have probably bought a new system this year but bought a new Mini Cooper and as I could use it fine for the web and email I thought next year.

Its great to have games that can scale down to play on the older machines, My 6800GT GFX card is still going strong on an Amd 3400 chip but it never even ran SHIII full pelt. I would not even try it with the new games as why play on a low setting when you miss so much.


I’d prefer SHV to have decent minimum requirements and hate to think the game being held back for gamers with low spec systems. I accept on my current system I cant play X,Y, or Z and glad I cant as I look forward to the new system and trying a few of them out and appreciate the way games have progressed.

Be able to scale it down to a level, but to hold back on making it a more advanced game for the sake of the select few that are unfortunate not to have higher spec system is madness and in truth SHII and IV is there for the older systems.

It has always been the case I accept that high end systems deserve the games that need them to play. It’s not good enough to suggest that low end systems need to be take into account if it means things dropped or tweaked in the game in my view

[kapitan_zur_see]

When water enters the submarine, it will fill all the rooms (unless the doors are closed). If a door is closed and has water behind it and you try to open it, it comes to comparing human strength to water pressure. Typically, the player's avatar doesn't really has any strength modeled into it (which would be affected by muscle mass, fatigue, morale and the level of CO2).

If you open the door, there will be a significant difference in water level between the two rooms. Simulating water rushing through a door into a room filled with all sorts of objects (torpedoes, pipes, people) is very complex. And also rendering it. If this is realized, the today's computers might not handle it. At least, the average computer sitting on our desks.

If you can't open the door, the water level will get above the head and you have to see the sonar man noticing this and getting off his chair and starting to swim to and through the hatch to the command room and them swimming up to the deck.

Compared to a normal game, the submarine's crew can fight the flood and you have to be to see them doing that (using the pumps or even water buckets).

You would want to see all sorts of wet surfaces: metal, fabric and skin. And the navigation map in the command room to start floating.


The effort to get this done is better to be put into something else at the moment (maybe wolfpacks). Maybe in SH6, when there's nothing else to be done.

And when it will be done, you should build the devs a statue, next to the Little Mermaid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid_%28statue%29). :arrgh!:

wow, hold on sec here lol! It's good to hear some dev having this much ambition though ;) It could be More simple than that and Still be a very nice addition! Already tried my luck at that within sh4 but not enough modding freedom... Water will just have to be a simple 3d plan covering the entire 3D interior model and going up tied to flooding level, simply using shaders and texture from outside sea only with some tweaking (scaled down waves etc.). Pretty easy to do. You can quit with objects floating around, would already be good as it is, just tiny detail. Wet surfaces? Why not! A simple alpha animated texture will do coupled with some shader (much like rain pouring FX on surface in some Fps). And while you are at it, use a simple declination to get a water pouring along hull when Uboat surfaces (two for the price of one). Add a feet splash sound when we move around. And basically that's it! Nothing to worry this much about crew fighting it, we already are not this optimistic as to believe crew behaviours will reflect exactly what we saw on the trailer I guess...
It's just the intro movie... Totally scripted ;)

[walkirie]

Quote : and I hate to think the game being held back for gamers with low spec systems

:up: I Agree :up:

[cjbeattie]

problem is not everyone has a cutting edge computer so of course it would be totally unfair to create it 'just' for people who can afford these top machines... unfair and cruel i might add

people unfortunate to have a lower spec pc has every much right to play this as u guys with top machines..

[JScones]

Unfair? It's called technology. Keep up or fall behind. SH5 should just cater for what's average out there *now*, not what was average 1/2/x years ago.

I'm sure those with average or above machines would think that it would be unfair and cruel for SH5 to be "dumbed down" to run on outdated specced machines. Goes both ways. ;)

Imagine the outcry if the devs said "we can't implement wolfpacks because they keep crashing 128mb video cards!" (or something to that affect).:rotfl2:

[IanC]

Meh, they had wolfpacks in Aces of the Deep, I'm pretty sure they can figure a way to make them for 128mb cards.
Graphics is a pretty low priority for me when it comes to subsims. I'll gladly play a sim that is nothing but 3D wire, if it has all the right features. Maybe that's because I come from the 8-bit generation. :hmmm:

[IronOutlaw]

Sehr Geehrt Kameraden!

There is one important aspect of Wolfpacks that many seem to misunderstand. Individual U-boats within a Pack rarely, if ever, communicated with each other except when a boat transmitted a homing beacon upon sighting a convoy.

Ideally, each boat would be directed to a particular area in a Partol Line by B.d.U. in the hope that one of them would pick up the convoy that B.d.U. anticipated in the region usually from signals intelligence from B-Dienst. Once one boat sighted the convoy, it would transmit the beacon, until of course due to DF'ing, it became a serious hazard to do so.

Later in the war boats would pick up on a sighted convoy by monitoring the sighting report transmitted from the particular boat that sighted the convoy. Sometimes they were able to join in, sometimes not.

Each boat, when it also sighted the convoy would report the fact to B.d.U.. B.d.U. would then give permission to engage the convoy once a sufficient number of boats reported in.

It must be remembered that U-boat transmissions used the Enigma cipher system, something which was quite a laborious task, particularly if the message had to be double enciphered. Enigma machines are freely available on the net along with the protocols to use it if you want to try.

So, hopefully Ubisoft can insert AI boats forming a Wolfpack, of which the player's boat is one, since Ubisoft is already inserting the convoy and the radio transmissions to and from B.d.U. anyway.

Incidentally, the B.d.U. KTB is also available on line. If you want U-boat KTB's you need to go to Freiburg im Bresgau and photocopy them like I did.

Hope all that makes sense.

[JU_88]

Meh, they had wolfpacks in Aces of the Deep, I'm pretty sure they can figure a way to make them for 128mb cards.
Graphics is a pretty low priority for me when it comes to subsims. I'll gladly play a sim that is nothing but 3D wire, if it has all the right features. Maybe that's because I come from the 8-bit generation. :hmmm:

FYI - Its got nothing to do with graphics mate.
Wolfpacks are not difficault because technological or hardware limitations.
No problems at all there.

Rather, they present programing/scripting challanges, to ensure they work properly - so its a logistics thing (kinda).

[IanC]

FYI - Its got nothing to do with graphics mate.
Wolfpacks are not difficault because technological or hardware limitations.
No problems at all there.

Rather, they present programing/scripting challanges, to ensure they work properly - so its a logistics thing (kinda).

I got ya! I was just answering the post right before mine. Anyways, I have no problem needing to update my system for SH5, hardware evolve so must games (or is it the other way around).

[Onkel Neal]

I am checking now, not sure Twitter actually sends e-mails to the followers that the account has been updated.

Question, all who were following the SH5 updates, did you get any e-mail that the Subsim Twitter was updated?

How did you learn the updates were being posted on Twitter?

thanks
Neal

[danlisa]

No Emails.

You have to subscribe to the RSS Feed and then your reader gives you RSS notifications.

BTW, had one from Subsim Twitter today. Was about the changes to the Newsletter, it had a link that is dead. ;)

[prowler3]

Regarding system specs and SHV.

My new system I consider pretty "hefty":
Windows XP Pro (SP2, 32 bit)
ASUS Rampage Extreme x48
Intel C2Q 9650 3.0ghz
4gb OCZ RAM
BFG GTX260, 896mb
(C:720, S:1480, M:1220, mhz)
SoundMAX X-fi
ASUS VW266H lcd flat panel

And, yet, I still find performance to be "less than I expected" with older sims I use, namely SH3+GWX3 and FS9. FS9 always runs at my FPS "lock" of 40...but AI aircraft textures load slowly, when there is a lot at a busy airport. this causes a "stuttering" effect as the textures come into view (say, as I'm turning into the runway and the main terminal, and all those AI, come into view). SH3+GWX3 causes the exact opposite...no stuttering but a drop in FPS, especially when the lame AI TypeIX is sitting there, not really diving, while the escorts and armed merchants just fire away at it as I approach (or even look in the direction of) the convoy that is "dealing with" the Type IX. I've even had system freezes while viewing this rather silly drama...since resolved by dropping the OC somewhat.

I'm guessing FS9 and SH3 use 2 different graphics engines and this leads to the different "issues" I see. More importantly, I've always been under the impression that newer games would have their graphics and computing "needs" optimized, and be better able to use the computing power of newer systems.

My point is this...after seeing the less than stellar improvements in the older sims I've mentioned with this new machine...I'm a bit worried that something like SHV will be even worse for me? I don't play any newer stuff...I'm a simmer, through and through, and I won't try FSX (Eye-candy over everything else) as it does nothing for my simming. I have no "new" game to compare my performance with.

I'm obviously no 3D or computer guru so I speak in very general terms.

Vic

[Webster]

Regarding system specs and SHV.


Vic

this isnt posted in the correct subject thread so it may not be seen by those who have the knowledge to answer you.

try posting it here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155150

also i think its too early to know what to expect from sh5 but we do know it has a brand new up to date game engine

[prowler3]

Will do, thanks Webster.

[Dutch]

Elanaiba (Dan the dev on addons) posted over at SimHQ

"the only two real submarine campaigns - with enough content and story to sustain a full price game and therefore the associated development costs - are the US and Germans ones. The Italians, British and all the rest would have to wait for addons, mods or another limited investment. There are ways to get to them, and we probably will. "


Read Dan's whole posting & join the debate on the topic "I don't get the fascination with the Nazis" over at SimHq (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2867932/Re_I_don_t_get_the_fascination.html#Post2867932)

Quite possible the most narrow minded post I have ever read. Ranting about Nazi fascination? Jesus some people............

Just don't dumb down the sim for the sake of users who can barely run SH4.

At 2010 users of these sims and other new games should at least have Duo-core, 2gb of ram and a PCI-e vid card at 512mb. This stuff is cheap now.

And I don't want to hear the crap about... Struggling family man or student. If you can afford internet, you can afford to upgrade. If not.....

GO MOW LAWNS.





Never mind this is the most narrow mind post I have ever seen. What about those people who use laptops. By all means my laptop plays anything I want it to from HOI3 to ETW to SH3/SH4. But it isn't easy for me to "upgrade" as you so eloquently put it. That would mean that I would have to buy a whole new computer because you simply can not upgrade Notebooks like you can a Desktop.

Another things I'm curious about, the home page said this was a SH5 DEMO debrief yet I have seen nothing in this thread about a demo? So why is it labeled such.

Another thing, why is it that people think we can only focus on one thing per game ie give us Wolf packs with SH5, then give us 3d damage model in SH6? I understand that is "realistic" to expect from today's gaming companies but really have we really lowered our expectations as to such? And we wonder why companies continue to do this to us? Because we accept it.




BTW there is no spoon, its only there because you accept that it is. (alright so the last part was a joke but not the rest of it.) On another note its good to be back in Subsim, I have been away far, far to long.

[Webster]

Quite possible the most narrow minded post I have ever read. Ranting about Nazi fascination? Jesus some people.............

to call people narrow minded is just rude and people are free to have any opinion they want. even if you feel someones opinion is narrow minded it doesnt mean others feel the same. as for ranting :06:, i see no ranting or Nazi fascination going on there.

how we see things can often be clouded by what we think someone is saying rather than looking at what they are actually saying. facts are facts and just because someone speaks about those facts doesnt mean they are agreeing or dissagreeing with them or what they represent but only that they are speaking about them so it has to be looked at in context.

Another things I'm curious about, the home page said this was a SH5 DEMO debrief yet I have seen nothing in this thread about a demo? So why is it labeled such.

the demo was an in person only demonstration you had to be there live to see, neal and a few other lucky members were actually able to go to this meeting and then tell us what they were able to see in the short demo and the questions they were allowed to ask about it.




Never mind this is the most narrow mind post I have ever seen. What about those people who use laptops.

:timeout: it seams every post you dissagree with "is the most narrow mind post I have ever seen"


please dont continue to call people narrow minded just because you dissagree with them, its rude and even if it is true (and im not saying it is or isnt in this case) being rude is not allowed here at subsim. we are all mature adults who are expected to treat each other with respect.

ps - firewall's opinion on what the game specs should be is not one that i agree with and IMO the game should be designed for regular people with regular mid-level computers.

[Dutch]

to call people narrow minded is just rude and people are free to have any opinion they want. even if you feel someones opinion is narrow minded it doesnt mean others feel the same. as for ranting :06:, i see no ranting or Nazi fascination going on there.

how we see things can often be clouded by what we think someone is saying rather than looking at what they are actually saying. facts are facts and just because someone speaks about those facts doesnt mean they are agreeing or dissagreeing with them or what they represent but only that they are speaking about them so it has to be looked at in context.



the demo was an in person only demonstration you had to be there live to see, neal and a few other lucky members were actually able to go to this meeting and then tell us what they were able to see in the short demo and the questions they were allowed to ask about it.





:timeout: it seams every post you dissagree with "is the most narrow mind post I have ever seen"


please dont continue to call people narrow minded just because you dissagree with them, its rude and even if it is true (and im not saying it is or isnt in this case) being rude is not allowed here at subsim. we are all mature adults who are expected to treat each other with respect.

ps - firewall's opinion on what the game specs should be is not one that i agree with and IMO the game should be designed for regular people with regular mid-level computers.

Narrow mindedness is a failure to take into account other possibilities other than your own. Hence the fact that the post of the Nazi things assumed everyone felt the same as he did, and that the game was glorifying Nazism.

I never said whether I agreed or disagreed of what they said, I just pointed out the way in which they were saying it.

I don't really see how I was being rude, but if thats how it was percieved, like how I percieve those post as being narrow minded then that is a fact, just like their post, that I will have to live with.

But meh, thats subsim for ya.

[Méo]

Narrow mindedness is a failure to take into account other possibilities other than your own. Hence the fact that the post of the Nazi things assumed everyone felt the same as he did, and that the game was glorifying Nazism.

If you see any glorification of nazism in SHIII or SHV, it's your own interpretation. I never saw anything from Ubisoft or from the community that glorified Nazism.

I guess you make a connection between the Nazi Party and the German Navy, as if every members of the German Navy of that time were fully aware of crimes that later make their leaders and fully agreed with that.

Well, to me this is clearly a failure to take into account other possibilities. (example: the use of swastika on warship was to make them clearly identifiable by the Luftwaffe)


In 1933, the Nazi Party got 43.9% in Federal election, without counting those who didn't vote. (i don't know the %)

If you want to understand why the Nazy Party came to power, you'll need to be patient and curious cause this is a complex series of unfortunate events:

- Humiliating defeat of WW1
- Treaty of Versailles
- The Great Depression (The unemployment rate reached nearly 30% in 1932 in Germany)

Lots of people were nearly facing starvation. They endured misery and i think this is pretty hard to understand from our comfortable and modern point of view.

Sadly, from extreme situations comes extreme solutions.


in my humble opinion a better world has slowly emerged from WWII.

God bless everyone who suffered that terrible war.


And of course, i think that Silent Hunter has nothing to do with politics.

[Adriatico]

Don't tell me they should sacrify visuals for people who play on laptop from last year.
Laptop is business product, not gaming...

Some people in Asia carry TV on bicycle instead of truck, so it doesn't mean that industry should not make large TV screen...

[mookiemookie]

Some people in Asia carry TV on bicycle instead of truck, so it doesn't mean that industry should not make large TV screen...

:haha: Great analogy!

[Webster]

its too late to worry about the game requirements anyway because they have already decided on what you'll need to run sh5, here are your game specs straight from the devs:
My projected configuration to run the game very well (with all graphic options enabled, in 1280*1024) is:
dual core at 3 GHz (quad core is appreciated but not mandatory)
2 gb of ram
nVidia 8800 GT 512mb (ATi 4850 512mb)

512mb on the video card is a minimum to play the game with every option checked. We're trying to make the game to fit into 256 mb of video memory (with the lowest settings).


Originally Posted by YukonJack_AK http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1155217#post1155217)
If I were to make a couple of educated guesses:
I'd say minimum Quad-Core CPU (it was the recommended for Assassins Creed)...
Minimum of 4.0GB of RAM (WIN7 is lighter - assuming SH5 is WIN7 ok - but Assassins Creed recommended 3.0GB and ran like crap)...
And a video card with at least 256MB (but I'd recommend at least a 512 or better... of a decent GPU... no bargain-bin OpenGL crap)

Assassin's Creed was created by a completely different studio with a completely different engine. Those requirements are caused by the fact that their main target is the Xbox 360.

Silent Hunter has nothing to do with the Xbox 360.

The game will run on Windows 7, even the 64bit edition.

[Faamecanic]

its too late to worry about the game requirements anyway because they have already decided on what you'll need to run sh5, here are your game specs straight from the devs:


That is until the MODDERS get a hold of the game and add full detailed moving harbors, HUGE convoys and battlefleets.....

Then we will need a BLADE server to run it at full detail :haha:

[Webster]

That is until the MODDERS get a hold of the game and add full detailed moving harbors, HUGE convoys and battlefleets.....

Then we will need a BLADE server to run it at full detail :haha:

yea that "dual core at 3 GHz (quad core is appreciated but not mandatory)"

is the part that worries me the most because i agree with what you just said :yep:

[makman94]

...... but really have we really lowered our expectations as to such? And we wonder why companies continue to do this to us? Because we accept it.......


you said all the truth in this sentence Dutch !

sometimes i am thinking how wonderfull and WITHOUT BUGS would be the silent hunter if a company like CAPCOM would have created it .
having so many bugs for years now is only a shame and doesn't show a work made by professionals .
i hope to be wrong but i am afraid that a lot of you will be very dissapointed with the incoming new silent hunter given the past of this company.
something else that is very intriguing is that they have focus to the first person 3d views ...engine's room ....etc .these things come second ( or last ) if we are talking for a SUB'S SIMULATOR !

sh needs a lot of improves at gameplay...navmap and periscope views ( 95% of the gameplay time is spend there when playing the game).
i really don't know how can someone call the sh as 'simulator' as it is now...almost nothing from rl is modeled ingame
all the others ,like engine's room ....etc can be made (and i can say much more good from them ) by talended people exactly here in this community like Tomi99. we don't need them for the eye's candies but we need them for this:
MAKE THE SH A SIMULATOR ! simple as this .....everything can be modeled now at least to a good level .....oh ,if only one day capcom decide to create a sub simulator ....that would be a really shiny day