Please do not tie SH5 to STEAM [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

DanCanovas

08-22-09, 03:23 AM

please please please do not use steam, its a pain in the arse beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend. i know a good score of hardcore total war gamers who have completely abandoned the series due to Empire total war being released with steam. not because they are "software pirates" but because it just does not function as designed to do. lets not faff about, its crap!

Lorient Bunker

08-22-09, 05:03 AM

I do believe you're talking rubbish m8, there's nothing massively wrong with Steam. Its not perfect but it would probably bring lots of advantages to the Silent Hunter community.

Think about it, we'd all like to see niche add-ons to Silent Hunter 5 e.g Italian subs, Japanese subs, Mini subs etc. But none of these have any hope of finding their way in a boxed add-on to be sold in a Games store for £14.99/$19.99, it just won't happen. However I can quite easily imagine one of these subjects being sold as part of Downloadable content for half that price through something like Steam.

Annatar

08-22-09, 05:11 AM

I really like Steam and would be all for SH5 on the platform. It's cheap, reliable and convenient.

ajrimmer42

08-22-09, 05:21 AM

Annatar

08-22-09, 05:25 AM

I don't know what everyone's problem is with Steam, I've only ever had good experiences with it. Surely it makes everything easier? It automatically downloads the game, keeps it up to date, and makes MP a breeze.

Generally people are worried about the "what if" scenario in which Valve goes out of business. Given that they're one of the biggest developers and self-publishers in the business now that's not looking likely. Hell, even without Valve, Steam is big and profitable enough that it could financially support itself.
As for Steam not working correctly, well that's just nonsense.

DanCanovas

08-22-09, 05:37 AM

well ive never had a good experience with Steam. ubi are unlikely to release SH5 through steam

Annatar

08-22-09, 05:42 AM

ubi are unlikely to release SH5 through steam

Given that Ubisoft released previous SH games through Steam, as well as 40 other games, and is releasing 6 more in the coming couple of months I'd say it's very likely that SH5 will be available on Steam. Of course I'm sure people will still have the option to buy from a brick and mortar store.

DanCanovas

08-22-09, 06:40 AM

my apologies, i thought you meant ONLY available on steam. Im sure that it may be available through that program for those who wish to use it.

TH0R

08-22-09, 08:16 AM

Personally I love the Steam applicaiton. With it buying the game is much faster and often almost up to 50% cheaper than buying the DVD form the nearby store.

Plus the interface and other options offered by Steam are very usefull. Not to mention that Starforce and similar crap won't be required for a Steam version of the game.

I really do hope they release a Steam version.

Letum

08-22-09, 08:28 AM

At first I was suspicious of steam, but now I like it.
It makes updates easy, does not infringe on my ownership of the game in
anyway, can be used off line; it's great!

Max2147

08-22-09, 08:42 AM

Steam has always worked well for me. I'd have no qualms about using it to buy SH5, although I doubt my computer will be able to handle it.

miner1436

08-22-09, 10:57 AM

Please don't use steam, I had lots of problems running Empire: Total war in offline mode.

java`s revenge

08-22-09, 11:33 AM

I love Steam, but last year there were many troubles so you
could only play offline (red orchestra)
It has its shortcomings.

stabiz

08-22-09, 12:38 PM

I dont hate steam, but I love not HAVING to use it. Yay for boxed copys!

KG_Jag

08-22-09, 05:35 PM

Steam or other toxic DRM (e.g. chain server; call home, etc) means no sale for me. eLicense limitations are also a big negative and may, depending on the details, stop me from buying.

SH 3 remained absent from my hard drive for years because of Starforce. Only when I found instructions on how to remove it, did I install the game. I don't want to go through all of that again either.

Arclight

08-22-09, 06:59 PM

I dont hate steam, but I love not HAVING to use it. Yay for boxed copys!
There you have it. :up:

Distributing through Steam is fine, but don't pull an ETW and make it a requirement.

RickC Sniper

08-22-09, 07:10 PM

I just don't want to HAVE to be online to play it. A game through Steam sometimes does that, and it's a major dissapointment to learn that after the fact. :o

If it also is realeased in a boxed copy.....no worries.

Task Force

08-22-09, 11:32 PM

I say they forget the entire protection thing and just release the thing without anything...

ya think these programs will help you not get pirated, think again...

Arclight

08-22-09, 11:39 PM

They help hinder piracy and limit the possibility for 2nd-hand sales. ;)

It's not about preventing piracy anymore, not since copy protection evolved into digital rights management.

paul_kingtiger

08-23-09, 08:07 AM

The problem isn't will it be available on steam, but will it only be available on steam.

Personally I like steam, it's quicker than going to the shops or waiting for a delivery, makes patching a breeze and I don't have to worry about lost or damaged disks. If I had the option to transfer my few remaining boxed games to steam for free I would. I bought Empire through steam and it was a little slow on the first day, due to load, but apart from that everything was perfect.

The anti piracy argument is weak, there are cracked versions of Empire with the latest patches available. Subscription MMOs are the only games that are truly piracy free.

Over all I'd like to see SH5 available on steam (where I'll buy it) and a boxed copy.

Rockin Robbins

08-23-09, 08:26 AM

I just found out by nasty experience that Valve games bought in Wal-Mart look like boxed games, they rattle like boxed games, they even seem to install like boxed games. But they AREN"T boxed games.

Because Valve's business model is that you can play your games on any computer, not just your own, as soon as your account shows you've bought "Widgets from Hell" that game belongs to your account. You can go to your friend's house, log on with your name and download the game and play it there.

That means that games in boxes are just a convenience so you can install the game quicker than downloading it. You do not have the right to sell that game, for instance, on ebay. Even if you delete the game from your computer it still belongs to your account and you can't sell it. If you do, your buyer has an expensive paperweight.

It makes sense that Steam only games should be clearly marked on their boxes that the game may not be resold. However, reading Steam's EULA and the box doesn't disclose the fact until it is too late, you've spent the money to buy the game and Valve explains to you that the language which purports to be English, means reselling is not permitted, you're out the cash.

That is not due to any dishonesty on Steam or Valve's part, just a lack of info on the box. If you think about it, the right to download the game onto subsequent computers or even multiple computers really is better than having a boxed DVD, which can be lost or damaged. But we should be told what the score is before we buy in case we don't agree.

The only negative I can think of with Steam's business model is that they have eliminated the resale market and all sales have to line their pockets. I can see being irritated at that, even though Steam prices look plenty reasonable for the most part.

SteamWake

08-23-09, 09:57 AM

Thought I heard my name :rotfl:

I have had no problems with steam in either online or offline modes.

I am going to need a second hard drive though :cool:

Sonarman

08-23-09, 02:24 PM

I don't mind Steam too much although I'd rather the game not be tied to any system. But above all else don't let it use the horrible "Games for Windows live" which has all but killed off the multiplayer aspect of Battlestations Pacific.

V.C. Sniper

08-23-09, 03:50 PM

Can't wait to buy Silent Hunter 5 on STEAM!!! Been using it since March 2004 and absolutely love it, its just so neat and clean having my games all up-to-date and in one location where I can easily access.

VALVe & STEAM == t3h OWN4G3

_alphaBeta_

08-23-09, 03:58 PM

There you have it. :up:

Distributing through Steam is fine, but don't pull an ETW and make it a requirement.
I was going to bring up the Empire: Total War fiasco. For those that don't know, E:TW was available on DVD just like a normal boxed copy of a game would be. They tied the authentication to steam, however. I knew what I was getting into because I actually read the box before buying. People like me who do not normally purchase steam / downloaded games now had to make a steam account and go through authentication. This requires a one-time Internet connection.

The problem for me is that you lose all control over patching. If the game is up to patch 1.4, and you decide you liked 1.3 better, there's no going back. It's also very hard (perhaps impossible) to apply patches from standalone EXEs anymore, since everything for E:TW was applied through Steam. This was a big problem for those that do not normally have Internet access. Downloading a 400 MB patch through a dial-up connection is not fun. Downloading an EXE at your friends' house and bringing it to your computer via CD gave some more flexibility.

Tying game codes to specific steam accounts also kills resale potential. As a consumer of a product, I feel I should be able to sell it down the road.

Except for the patch lose of control, I don't have major problems with Steam, but would prefer they offer it, and not require it.

Tomi_099

08-23-09, 04:05 PM

A heartfelt plea from a long time Silent Hunter Fan and keen gamer - please deelper team do not use Steam - it is a nighmare and ruins a great game not to mention fouls up mods

Please do not use Steam

R
........................

:06:As for God's name are you in such a crazy idea that word in the mouth to take?
A horrible thought! :wah:

Captain Birdseye

08-23-09, 04:27 PM

Automatic updates, stored for you online if you ever want to uninstall and come back to it... Steam is a useful tool.

Mud

08-23-09, 04:51 PM

I don't have problems with Steam, in fact I have several games on my Steam account.
But some games require a hard box, SH5 is one of them.
The SH4 map looks good on the wall, I bet the SH5 map looks even better :O:

flakmonkey

08-24-09, 07:52 AM

Agreed, steam is the worst thing to happen to gaming in a long time. It ends up simply promoting piracy since thats the only way to be rid of it.
Its a barrier between me and my games and i just dont like it.

Annatar

08-24-09, 08:36 AM

steam is the worst thing to happen to gaming in a long time.

Can you get me some of the crack you're smoking? There's no barrier whatsoever that isn't in any other digital download model, including those such as GoG or Gamersgate. You buy your game, download it, and play. Not connected to the internet? You play in offline mode.

Digital distribution is the future, there's no getting away from it, and it's not the enemy unless you're specifically looking for something to be grumpy about.

flakmonkey

08-24-09, 10:04 AM

Can you get me some of the crack you're smoking?

Yes:up:

Seriously though, i guess it comes down to personal experience. For whatever reason i find steam just wont let me use offline mode unless im connected to the net?!? + compulsary updates to steam are constantly getting in the way of me playing games, who the hell wants to wait for yet another update to download before youre allowed to play tf2!

I have no problem with sh5 being made available via steam, but just dont force people who buy boxed copies to use steam, remember the fiasco that surrounded the launch of half life2 and more recently empire total war.

DanCanovas

08-24-09, 10:39 AM

empire total war was a disaster due to steam and i struggled to ever play it offline!

TH0R

08-24-09, 11:28 AM

empire total war was a disaster due to steam and i struggled to ever play it offline!

Please name another game where it was a total disaster. I want to know if this is an isolated case.

From AA3 to GTR Evolution all games work flawlessly for me via Steam.

kwbgjh2

08-24-09, 12:45 PM

.....
The problem for me is that you lose all control over patching. If the game is up to patch 1.4, and you decide you liked 1.3 better, there's no going back. It's also very hard (perhaps impossible) to apply patches from standalone EXEs anymore, since everything for E:TW was applied through Steam. This was a big problem for those that do not normally have Internet access. Downloading a 400 MB patch through a dial-up connection is not fun. Downloading an EXE at your friends' house and bringing it to your computer via CD gave some more flexibility......

A point on the good side of Steam for me is: The offline Modus is working fine. So if you dont want to make Multiplayer Games, keep Steam offline. If you dont want to be patched without your permission stay offline.

The problem with steam is: If you install a new game for steam you are forced to go once online for activation. When a patch at this moment is waiting for the game you have no chance. But further patches you can avoid, if you have enough disk space.

Ex. : SH5 comes with steam and there is a patch for it. You are not sure if you want to use it. Copy the hole folder with the SH5 content on another place on your harddisk. Go online with steam and wait for getting the game updated. When the game ist after patch once started, go offline with steam. Test the patch intensive. If you dont like it copy your backup to the steam folder and dont go anymore onlne with steam.

The thing on steam i really hate is the resale problem. To me its not buying a game with steam but more a kind of leasing.:damn:

I am not sure because Empire Total War is so far my only Steam Game. I think its a pretty solution for people who use different pc's and for real "online games", but i can see no use for offline games. To me there is absolut no difference between ETW 1.2 and 1.3.
And i played absolut no part of the SH series online.

Silent Hunter 4 i only updated when my favorite modder Ducimus forced me to do so. :03:

wetwarev7

08-24-09, 01:31 PM

I would also like to express my plea to not use Steam.
I don't buy games that use Steam.

I really really really don't wanna miss out out on SH5 because of it!

Lorient Bunker

08-24-09, 01:44 PM

compulsary updates to steam are constantly getting in the way of me playing games, who the hell wants to wait for yet another update to download before youre allowed to play tf2!

I don't know whether you mean the Steam program or the Games themselves? You can quite easily disable automatic updates on a game by game basis using the properties menu.

As for TF2 its a great game and I play it loads, but that's down to the constant refinements and Free updates it receives. Like any on-line shooter Steam based or not, if you don't keep it up to date then you won't be able to connect to a game server.

In both these regards Steam is not really "getting in your way" of playing your games.

DanCanovas

08-25-09, 03:05 AM

i think it is probably a pointless topic, we have no reason to believe that SH5 will be steam only do we?

Arclight

08-25-09, 04:10 AM

Nope, but better safe than sorry. :D

Morpheus

08-25-09, 09:23 AM

kwbgjh2

08-28-09, 06:01 AM

This morning i saw this messages which make me pretty sure that further ubisoft games will come with steam:

Over a dozen classic Ubisoft games are now available to customers worldwide, including two titles new to Steam. Among the titles are Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, The Prince of Persia series, Silent Hunter 4, and titles from The Settlers series (http://store.steampowered.com/news/)

. (http://store.steampowered.com/news/)

DigitalAura

08-28-09, 07:54 AM

I wanted to hate STEAM too. I avoided it for years until TOTAL WAR was released. I actually ended up appreciating the interface and the way it updates and handles things in the background.
I D/Led SilentHunter4 and UBoats exp from STEAM and have been thrilled with it. And the mods work just fine... why wouldn't they? Steam hasn't altered any of the files.

I say STEAM gets a bad rap and it's not justified. If 90% of the population have no negative experiences with STEAM, then that's probably better than the "boxed" products success rate!

gimpy117

08-28-09, 01:14 PM

A heartfelt plea from a long time Silent Hunter Fan and keen gamer - please deelper team do not use Steam - it is a nighmare and ruins a great game not to mention fouls up mods

Please do not use Steam

R

fouls up mods? not really.

you should see my TF2 folders. I have just about everything modded.

Zachstar

08-28-09, 06:27 PM

Arclight

08-29-09, 05:33 AM

Yes, I still don't like it. :D

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with Steam, but I still prefer my boxed copies. Doesn't mean I won't jump on a great deal when I see it.

goldorak

08-29-09, 06:36 AM

Wow some amazing FUD in this thread.

#1 Steam works with mods. Period. Valve pioneered the concept of selling a game based on its modding ability. They would not screw that up and they have not. The game folder structure is the same.

#2 Steam does not screw up your computer. There would be lawsuits.

Do I need to continue?

Your logic is faulty. Valve cannot sell games that are never yours to own. The right term to describe Steam is a mechanism to rent games.
Thats all it is, nothing more nothing less.
And by the way, if you read Steam's TOS they are free to do whatever they want, even revoke your account and you have no recourse whatsoever. Enjoy "owning" games under Steam.
I just wish joe sixpack had a least a minimum understanding of just what Steam is. :shifty:

Ilpalazzo

08-29-09, 05:32 PM

I'd prefer not NEEDING to use steam. I don't mind it being available. I just don't want to be tied to it like with some games.

It's really not that bad, I just don't care for it.*shurg*

I would like steam a lot more if it would let me give away games I don't want anymore to friends.

The only real thing I don't like is having my game's files buried under a few steam folders. Kinda annoying:p I'm so used to going straight to a game folder from my 'program files' folder. Dunno if this can be changed.:hmmm:

Anyway, I think it's kinda bs that I see retail prices on there. It's not like I'm getting a physical copy. That was something that used to have me excited. I remember people saying games on steam would be cheaper than retail boxed copies. What a load. Oh well, you never know when they are gonna put up a killer deal on something you want. Just gotta hope you happen to check it for the 2 days or so that it's available><