[WIP] König Bismarck

[ivank]

Im finally taking the chanllege of making a playable ship, I was thinking or either taking Yamato1's Bismarck, with permission, or the bismarck already in the game. but i need help;
1) whish is easier to work w/, the already playable or the AI?
2) how do i add a second working rudder?
3) how do i add a thrid prop?
4) how do i change gun damage?
5) is anyone willing to texture this model for me?
6) how do you extend a ships length?

Tec Specs:

100,000 metric tons
300m x 38m x 10m
33.3 kts
3 convergent propellers
3 turbines by 2 nuclear reactors
220,000 hp
2 rudders
10,000 nautical miles at 22 kts
crew: 5591
Planes: 8 Arado Ar-196 flying boats
Armor: strong enough to take a 18'' shell
Armament: 8 x 20.75in, 12 x 7.1in, 16 x 4.1in, 16 X 3.7 cm AA, 18 X 2.0 cm AA

-UNTIL SOMEONE CAN HELP ME THIS PROJECT IS POSTPONED-

[Raptor1]

What Bismarck already in the game?

[yamato1]

What Bismarck already in the game?

Yes!Thanks for me!:oops::D

[Raptor1]

What Bismarck already in the game?
Yes!Thanks for me!:oops::D

I was referring to this:


I was thinking or either taking Yamato1's Bismarck, with permission, or the bismarck already in the game.

[ivank]

oh im sry i ment Greomes Bismarck. ill have to get permission.

[W4lt3r]

That's some odd bismarck. Are you talking about the H39-class project battleship? Or even the heavier H44-class project battleship, tho both of them were only paper ships, at least with GMX They're in SH3..

But yeah, those are 2 damn big ships. Could easily outpower a yamato with those, no? :hmm:

[Ishigami]

Are you talking about the H39-class project battleship? Or even the heavier H44-class project battleship, tho both of them were only paper ships, at least with GMX They're in SH3..

Those two are in GMX for Sh3? May have screen for us?

[ivank]

That's some odd bismarck. Are you talking about the H39-class project battleship? Or even the heavier H44-class project battleship, tho both of them were only paper ships, at least with GMX They're in SH3..

But yeah, those are 2 damn big ships. Could easily outpower a yamato with those, no? :hmm:
the great H44-class, the H44 had 22'' guns but i thought that might be a bit too strong for the gun, at a certain point that much power is excessive, i mean nothing can even dent you, thats boring, i thought 17.75 would be better strong yet not too strong still ofters a challege

[ivank]

so anyone able to answer my questions?

[ubootcomrade]

Your making a H-44 battleship?:o , You sir, have made a new best friend :rock:

[Raptor1]

The H-44 design had 20" guns (Much like the Super Yamato, which had 20.1" guns), but I find that it would be highly impractical to have guns that size on a ship, for the hull to be able to take the pressure it would have to be enormous, I do believe there wasn't a drydock big enough in the whole world to accommodate it and if there was the ship would be a sitting duck for air attacks anyway...

In fact, Hitler argued for a 20"-gunned Battleship from the beginning, but his naval staff convinced him it would be impractical, which resulted in the 16"-armed H-39 class (Which would probably have been a great Battleship, on par with the Iowa and Lion classes), but of course his huge gun mania continued until they designed the H-44...

Anyway, looking forward to seeing it anyway

[AntEater]

First of all, "König Bismarck" sounds really dumb.
Bismarck was a Chancellor, in british terms, a prime minister, not a king.
I know it is an analogy to the Königstiger tank, but Königstiger is the german word for Bengal tiger, so it is an animal. The "king" does not mean "king size".

Also, the H Class had only one change of being realized, that was in its original form.
A 16 inch armed diesel driven raider battleship with some innovative features and some no brainers like installing the aircraft hanger (with avgas tanks) near the rear turret barbette.
H-44 and the preceding designs were to be completed "after final victory", that means after Germany somehow managed to defeat not only Britain, but also the USSR and the US. Maybe they were meant for the final showdown with Japan!
So that makes a H-44 about as likely as the sea turning into chocolate.
I have my suspicion that designs like H 44 had more to do with the general war situation. A lot of engineers worked in the Navy surface ship design bureaus that were not involved in U-Boats essentially had nothing to do. According to the mobilization construction program, no new vessels above destroyer size were to be constructed. And even these destroyers and smaller vessels were evolutionary, not revolutionary designs gradually improved by the yards themselves, except for the almost completed diesel destroyer Z 51.
So all those engineers were pretty much waiting for their call to the east front if they did not keep themselves busy.
So they kept churning out plans not only for mega battleships but also for practically every type of warship until almost the last day.

[W4lt3r]

Are you talking about the H39-class project battleship? Or even the heavier H44-class project battleship, tho both of them were only paper ships, at least with GMX They're in SH3..
Those two are in GMX for Sh3? May have screen for us?
It is somewhere buried in the SH3 mod image thread, Even though their main armament is wrong, the chassis hits perfectly on the H39 class, i'll try to dig it up from there.

*edit* found it.

Sure, it might have some similarity to the scharnhorst but the ship is way too long to be one, compared on the deutchland on the image. >.> At least my eyes tell me these two are H39's, and when i mentioned this in the thread and also inquired about the Europa class german project carrier / Graf spee, some hint i received that they'd be a Kiel.. *shrug* donno the date though.http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa54/TarJak/SHOT3366.jpg

[ubootcomrade]

I hope this is of some help for you ivank, its the draft of the H class battleship

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z196/ICMWIM1CHAEL/H-44.jpg

gotta love wikipedia :D

[ivank]

I hope this is of some help for you ivank, its the draft of the H class battleship

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z196/ICMWIM1CHAEL/H-44.jpg

gotta love wikipedia :D

it does help but all i need right now are my questions in my 1st post answered then it will take a week to make.

[ivank]

Your making a H-44 battleship?:o , You sir, have made a new best friend :rock:

thank you.

[ivank]

First of all, "König Bismarck" sounds really dumb.
Bismarck was a Chancellor, in british terms, a prime minister, not a king.
I know it is an analogy to the Königstiger tank, but Königstiger is the german word for Bengal tiger, so it is an animal. The "king" does not mean "king size".

Also, the H Class had only one change of being realized, that was in its original form.
A 16 inch armed diesel driven raider battleship with some innovative features and some no brainers like installing the aircraft hanger (with avgas tanks) near the rear turret barbette.
H-44 and the preceding designs were to be completed "after final victory", that means after Germany somehow managed to defeat not only Britain, but also the USSR and the US. Maybe they were meant for the final showdown with Japan!
So that makes a H-44 about as likely as the sea turning into chocolate.
I have my suspicion that designs like H 44 had more to do with the general war situation. A lot of engineers worked in the Navy surface ship design bureaus that were not involved in U-Boats essentially had nothing to do. According to the mobilization construction program, no new vessels above destroyer size were to be constructed. And even these destroyers and smaller vessels were evolutionary, not revolutionary designs gradually improved by the yards themselves, except for the almost completed diesel destroyer Z 51.
So all those engineers were pretty much waiting for their call to the east front if they did not keep themselves busy.
So they kept churning out plans not only for mega battleships but also for practically every type of warship until almost the last day.

the Konig Bismarck is a name i gave to it as a sign of power. i know Bismarck was a chancellor. its just a name. if you want when i release it you can change the name.

[ubootcomrade]

I know that König Bismarck sounds like a cool name, but realisticaly if it was built it would have most likely been bestowed with a name like 'Germania' or 'Hindenburg' due to its obvious prestige and massive size. Just a suggestion but i like the name König Bismarck as well :D :arrgh!:

[ivank]

if/when i release him, i might release 2 ships

[ubootcomrade]

I dont really know a lot about modding but theres a lot of talented people on these forums that I am certain will be able to solve your modding problems :D

[AntEater]

The drawings are for H-39. H-44 was generally similar but the superstructure was much smaller compared to the hull size. It always seemed to me that the actual designing was not much more than increase dimensions in a linear fashion. The only real difference was that the aviation component was moved to a more logical and traditional midships spot, similar to the arrangement on Bismarck.
The great difference was below waterline:
From H-42 on, the design featured a "tunnel" protecting the rudders and screws from hits like the one that crippled Bismarck.
The most likely speculative names were "Friedrich der Grosse" and "Hindenburg" for the first two, and maybe some other statesmen for the next.

[ivank]

since i dont know how to edit the superstructure, im not going to, other than increased lenght and width, and the tunnels on the props, and added funnel. he will look the same.

[ivank]

I dont really know a lot about modding but theres a lot of talented people on these forums that I am certain will be able to solve your modding problems :D

same here, this is my lst major mod.:D

[mickey117]

I hope this is of some help for you ivank, its the draft of the H class battleship

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z196/ICMWIM1CHAEL/H-44.jpg

gotta love Wikipedia :Dwhen you think about its a really big ship it said that the H44 would weigh bout 120 thousand tones and that would slow it down alot and i think it would be the same case that happened with the yamoto sure shes/he is big but not invincible :huh:

[mickey117]

yet still cant wait until finished:rock: hope you can sort out those problems good luck:up:
PS the name seems alright :arrgh!:

[Seawolve44]

I gotta admit I can't wait to sail the High Seas with the H-39 and/or the H-44 class modern Super Battleships.:cool: In a dream Kreigmarine fleet, I would name the ships KM Germania (H-44), KM Mackensen (H-39), and the KM Moltke (H-39), along with the Tirpitz, Gneisenau, Prinz Eugen, Hipper, 2 Deutschand class pocket battleships, one fleet carrier KM Graf Zeppelin, one escort carrier KM Seydlitz, plus 15 Z-class destroyers. I could hardly imagine a campaign to break out of the Atlantic in a all out commerce raiding scenario, sail into the Indian Ocean, shell the shores of Australia, evade US carrier aircraft, join the Yamato and the Musashi in the Philippines by 1944, annihilate the US fleet at Samar, Sibuyun, and the Leyte, return to the atlantic with a joint German/Japanese task force and crush the British Home fleet, block US/British/Soviet commerce. Sink the newly built HMS Vanguard. I could believe two Iowa class battleships are barely gonna stand up against the two Yamatos, Two H-39, and a H-44 battleship.:p :arrgh!: Only downfall is if the US or British carriers catch my fleet sneaking in undetected, then I shall take the beating, or perhaps down down with my ship, knowing I served the Vaterland well, and changed the textbooks of history, that WWII was not an easy win by sea, thus giving the Kriegsmarine surface fleet a higher status it should've deserved.;) Hope this helps for a nice storyline motivation.:)

-Seavolve44
Zach Fox

[fair_weather]

When you get into the theoretical what ifs of WW2, that's when things get interesting.

In your theoretical operation Seawolve44, you're forgetting that taking that many ships to the West to help the Japanese, leaves the Atlantic wide open. Plus there's the possibility that with their taskforce could be ambushed and damaged on route. Gibraltar is in between them if they plan to go around Africa, and then there's Russia the other way.

The Uboat fleet would have to be bigger to warrant such a large dispatch of ships. A more possible and feasible move would be an invasion of Ireland and Britain. Logistics would be handled by the flagforce of battleships and the Graf Zepplin. The GZ would deploy paratroopers and bombers to the minor cities along the coast while the Battleships shell the mainland. Uboats would be used to ferry troops to captured harbours and go from there.

Or if they did something like a reverse Operation Overlord, they could do it. Take Europe like they did, ignore Russia for the time being, take France and prepare a strike fleet from the captured french ports. Don't bother making Uboat pens yet, Take Britain and go from there. After Britain has been captured they could take over some of the British assets. Now there's an interesting thought...

[ivank]

I am glad to see interset in this mod still exists, however this thread is now part of TSWSM Offical Post. Please post there for now on. Thank you.

[Sledgehammer427]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z196/ICMWIM1CHAEL/H-44.jpg



wow, looks like a Bismarck with a second funnel, removed hangar, and a (stupidly) relocated catapult. If only I had a working 3D editor, i could get that done in a heartbeat...proly with a Scharnhorst model, because it would take a year after that heartbeat to edit the deck properly. So, modify the Scharnhorst to have a second funnel, a Caesar turret. lengthen it a few feet, widen, and done!

don't worry, it sounds like I'm skipping details, but trust me, it will have its own originality.

[A Very Super Market]

The H44 with 20' guns would no doubt be slow, unwieldy, and a very inviting target for planes. Massive guns would be more suited to a line of battle, which in WWII never happened. Ships were too mobile, aircraft powerful, the H44 would be almost completely useless.

The H39, however, was fairly well thought out. 16' guns were more practical, left more room for AA, and ship would undoubtedly be faster. But it would still be obsolete in the settings. Heres a list of battleships sunk in battle during WWII

Hood- By Bismarck
Bismarck- Torpedo bombers followed by Nelson
Prince of Wales- Air attack
Repulse- Same air attack
New Mexico, Arizona- Total loss by aircraft
Conte di Cavour, Littorio, Caio Duilio- Torpedo Bombers
Musashi, Yamato- Aircraft
Royal Oak- U-47 :D
Fuso, Yamashiro- Failed Trafalgor-esque battle, sunk by numerous battleships
Graf Spee- Damaged by cruisers, then scuttled
Scharnhorst- Damage by cruisers, then Duke of York
Kongo- Submarine
Hiei- Damaged by aircraft, then scuttled
Haruna- Aircraft in harbour
Kirishima- Damaged by ship, then scuttled
Tirpitz- Aircraft
Ise- Aircraft
Hyuga- Aircraft, then run aground
Mutsu- Spontaneous naval combustion

You can see that the majority were sunk as a direct result of air assault. Still not convinced? The ones that sank by battleships were at battles lacking air power completely.

[Sledgehammer427]

actually, both the H-38 and H-44 would have fielded 16 inchers
from www.adolfkanonen.com (http://www.adolfkanonen.com)

"The guns were developed in 1934 for the new capital ships for the Kriegsmarine...In 1937 the Kriegsmarine ordered the 40,6cm guns from Krupp in Essen for the next series of battleships, the H and J class of 56,200 tons. Plan Z was the driving force behind the expansion of the Kriegsmarine. It was approved in 1937 and very ambitious when it came to number and size of ships. However, the timeframe did not coincide with Hitler’s plans for the land war. The building of the two battleships with the planned names of Friedrich der Große and Großdeutschland was stopped. "

so, you up-arm your bismarck too

Mutsu- Spontaneous naval combustion
that cracked me up, but you forgot the Yamato, but we all know what happened

[A Very Super Market]

Yamato was put with Musashi, the only one I missed would be the Roma.

Roma- Sunk by aircraft launched guided missile (!)



Yeah, the Mutsu's demise was rather ...comedic. I didn't know anything about it so when I found out, I had to make a joke about it.

[bigboywooly]

Are you talking about the H39-class project battleship? Or even the heavier H44-class project battleship, tho both of them were only paper ships, at least with GMX They're in SH3..
Those two are in GMX for Sh3? May have screen for us?
It is somewhere buried in the SH3 mod image thread, Even though their main armament is wrong, the chassis hits perfectly on the H39 class, i'll try to dig it up from there.

*edit* found it.

Sure, it might have some similarity to the scharnhorst but the ship is way too long to be one, compared on the deutchland on the image. >.> At least my eyes tell me these two are H39's, and when i mentioned this in the thread and also inquired about the Europa class german project carrier / Graf spee, some hint i received that they'd be a Kiel.. *shrug* donno the date though.http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa54/TarJak/SHOT3366.jpg

:nope: maybe the scharnhorst is a lil longer than should be BUT

Lutzow

Length (Total): 186,0 m (later 187,9 m)
Length (Waterline): 181,7 m
Beam: 20,69 m

Scharnhorst

Length (Total): 229,8 m (234,9 m since 1939)
Length (Waterline): 226,0 m
Beam: 30,0 m

Gneisenau class battleship over 40 m longer and 10m wider than the battlecruiser Lutzow

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/gwx3/sh32008-12-2708-23-43-68.jpg

In fact the heavy cruiser Hipper class was longer than the Lutzow

Hipper Length (Total): 205,9 m

No H class was built so wouldnt be in GWX

Nor the Europa based Spee

Zeppelin yes

So theoretically you could use the Scharnhorst to be a theoretical H class

One of the 10 H class 16" guns actually made, in Norway

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/gwx3/adolfgun.jpg

[mickey117]

hope this give ya a better veiw http://www.steelnavy.com/images/NNTHClass.htm/HKl0129p&p.JPG maybe a bit different but what the hell:up:

[Seawolve44]

New Mexico, Arizona- Total loss by aircraft

erhm, the USS New Mexico survived WWII, if you were refering to the "other battleship" sunk at Pearl Harbor with a total loss. It was the USS OKLAHOMA, which capsized there, and was raised in 1944.

-seawolve44

[A Very Super Market]

Whoops, guess I wasn't thinking straight. >_<

[Lipud U-107]

hope this give ya a better veiw http://www.steelnavy.com/images/NNTHClass.htm/HKl0129p&p.JPG maybe a bit different but what the hell:up:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/althistory/images/c/cb/H_Class_Battleship.jpg
The German H-Class Superbattleship Götz von Berlichingen at anchor beside the Tirpitz prior to a joint exersize off Norway 1963 .
I think this picture is a photo editing, but it looks like real:o

this link when am got this foto
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Greater_German_Reich_(Deutschland_Siegt)

[Sledgehammer427]

O_O
woah.

but look at the anchor chains on the tirpitz and the H. Almost identical