I suck at this!

[Penelope_Grey]

I truly do!

It might be me... or it might be the fact its a IXD2... I dunno... just wanted to share that gem with you all.

Poor Penny need practice at being U-Boat Captain in SH4 :oops:

[Rockin Robbins]

Now THAT's intriguing! What is different about the SH4 configuration? What's what do you miss from SH3 that would make your life complete? Can you communicate that with Kpt. Lehmann and his evil crew? He's been entirely too ornery around here and needs something constructive to keep him out of trouble.:rotfl:

But I am very curious about what it is that you miss. Experienced U-Boat skippers like you are going to be what gets SH4UBM up to speed quickly. Thanks for being here!:up:

[Penelope_Grey]

'Scuse me? "Evil crew?!" We're not "evil" we are just nasty buggers who enjoy making subsimmers suffer.:yep::D

The stupid part is, I'm pretty decent in a fleet boat. But this add on, something is not sitting quite right there. I think, and this is only conjecture... but I think that maybe the problem is me. I am treating the IXD2 like a U-Boat when in fact I would probably be more served to treat it like a fleet boat.

I probably need more practice in it to get a feel for it better than I am. I think the problem is me. I can't help but think the add on is doing something different to SH3.

Not only that... not to toot our horns but the IXD2 in GWX is far superior in terms of handling etc. The IXD2 in the add on feels far too agile and nimble and its got the whole "on rails" thing going on plowing through the sea with impunity. I also have a couple of doubts about its endurance submerged, it should be able to do a bit better. Again going on GWX as a guide.

The attacking part is not a problem lots of familiarity there to SH3 that is cool. I have noted a need on my part to refine my surface attack strategy in this. i.e. getting into position without alerting the enemy.

Also the campaign in this while alright, is not as good as its US counterpart I feel.

Generally speaking I need more practice... but... I will say this much... when I load SH4 on the odd occasion despite being a U-Boat fan, I am more inclined to play Fleet Boat than U-Boat the moment.

Like you Rock, I think I need to force myself into the IXD2 a bit more.

I need to have a proper play, complete a patrol first before I can really analyse this.

[LaughingSwordfish]

Generally speaking I need more practice... but... I will say this much... when I load SH4 on the odd occasion despite being a U-Boat fan, I am more inclined to play Fleet Boat than U-Boat the moment.

With Trigger Maru and Run Silent Run Deep the Pacific campaign is like what I wanted it from the start. Good job modders:up:

When someone makes a realistic camnpaign for the u-boats I will give it a try, but for the time being I`m enjoying the US campaign.

The VIIC is already there but we lack the campaign to drive it in.

[Rockin Robbins]

And you're right, Penelope, it's much closer to a fleet boat than a Type VII. Maybe that is the problem. I'm having a great cruise here with three objectives fulfilled (SH4 wrinkle there), 5 merchies on the bottom for a 48K+ tonnage and half my torpedoes used up. Sure is a pain getting the external torpedoes into play! And my hull is 40% damaged from early airplane encounters. I've been much better lately though. It's hard to adjust to no decent radar. The radar detector comes in handy though.

I've had a pretty good array of attack strategies: 3 Dick O'Kanes, a Fast-90 a plain old manual setup and a point and shoot that I remember clearly. I know I shot more torpedoes than that. I don't keep a torpedo log like some around here have done.:oops:

But this boat is nothing but fun! How can anybody hate a boat this sweet?:arrgh!:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Can you communicate that with Kpt. Lehmann and his evil crew? He's been entirely too ornery around here and needs something constructive to keep him out of trouble.:rotfl:


Well, Kpt. Lehmann came down with strep-throat yesterday. :dead: Between work, school, clinical rotations, and GWX build matters...

The only "orneriness" that he can muster up for now is just this smiley: :stare:

He feels like gak-fu at the moment.

The evil team will just have to hold the boat on course without him for a day or two. <coff>

LOL, all the people who hate him can enjoy a laugh and a few free shots for now.:ping:

Too bad that other thread got locked. (haven't the slightest idea why.) Looked to me as if something good was beginning to happen.

<Privateer, you have the helm for now sir.>

[THE_MASK]

never nind

[kiwi_2005]

The VIIC is already there but we lack the campaign to drive it in.

Where is this VIIC!!! Me want.:yep:

[kiwi_2005]

'Scuse me? "Evil crew?!" We're not "evil" we are just nasty buggers who enjoy making subsimmers suffer.:yep::D

The stupid part is, I'm pretty decent in a fleet boat. But this add on, something is not sitting quite right there. I think, and this is only conjecture... but I think that maybe the problem is me. I am treating the IXD2 like a U-Boat when in fact I would probably be more served to treat it like a fleet boat.

I probably need more practice in it to get a feel for it better than I am. I think the problem is me. I can't help but think the add on is doing something different to SH3.

Not only that... not to toot our horns but the IXD2 in GWX is far superior in terms of handling etc. The IXD2 in the add on feels far too agile and nimble and its got the whole "on rails" thing going on plowing through the sea with impunity. I also have a couple of doubts about its endurance submerged, it should be able to do a bit better. Again going on GWX as a guide.

The attacking part is not a problem lots of familiarity there to SH3 that is cool. I have noted a need on my part to refine my surface attack strategy in this. i.e. getting into position without alerting the enemy.

Also the campaign in this while alright, is not as good as its US counterpart I feel.

Generally speaking I need more practice... but... I will say this much... when I load SH4 on the odd occasion despite being a U-Boat fan, I am more inclined to play Fleet Boat than U-Boat the moment.

Like you Rock, I think I need to force myself into the IXD2 a bit more.

I need to have a proper play, complete a patrol first before I can really analyse this.
SH3 wasn't much different straight out of the box. I presume your playing the stock uboats. Bite your lip and use some mods available for Uboats addon... Go on we wont tell Kaptan Lehman :lol:

Warning though you might suck even badder with the mods as it wont make your game easier.

[Paajtor]

...and maybe you're missing some menu-elements?
Take a look at jimimadrid's SH4 Menumaker (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131625).
With this tool, you'll be able to add - for example - a weather-report button to your HUD (something that the default addon is lacking, if I remember correctly).
Or a button to identify target, stuff like that.

[Rockin Robbins]

None of the mods affects U-Boat playability yet. The environmental mods are affecting that. But we still have the U-Boat on rails, so they aren't quite doing what they do for the Fleet Boats. I don't know how you get historical enemy shipping when the scenario is hypothetical. I'm in the minority in that I don't have a problem with hypothetical situations.

But for the U-Boat, we're at ground zero! The game is this good and we haven't even begun to see what's possible! If we can get the evil;) Kpt. Lehmann healthy again, there's a chest of goodies (toyz!) here that would get any pirate excited.:arrgh!:

One small annoyance has been the incomplete separation of U-Boat and Fleet Boat has made Trigger Maru affect U-Boats badly, and I'm afraid it might be the other way around. It's too bad that they are not totally separated.

I would suggest a way to make that happen, even if the game can't be brought to heel is a modification of the main menu that would take advantage of a MultiSH4 dual setup for U-Boats and Fleet Boats. That would mean two JSGME setups and other messy details, such as an installation script that would assemble this frankenstein monster properly for the player, and may mean some fancy footwork in the menu coding bordering on license violation. Cooperation with the devs would be absolutely essential to avoid any of that becoming an issue. If Ubi feels they've been betrayed by their biggest supporters, we can kiss future sub sims goodbye.

Sometimes I wish I were a modder, but I have a life and don't have the time to learn. I'm bright enough not to wish I didn't have a life!:yep:

@Penelope: I forgot! You can load up my Trigger Maru keyboard layout (http://files.filefront.com/Alternate+Key+Bindings7z/;9762884;/fileinfo.html), featuring shift-i for someofficer identify target. It's very similar to SH3.

[LaughingSwordfish]

Where is this VIIC!!! Me want.:yep:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=133364

[Dowly]

<Privateer, you have the helm for now sir.>
Your boat has insurance right. :huh:

[Penelope_Grey]

Hmm....

Well the Indian Ocean campaign is not strictly hypothetical IXD2's did operate there. Them Type 18's (don't know the roman numeral) are as hypothetical as it gets.

To an extent, the XXI in SH3 is quite hypothetical too.

I like historical accuracy in a game, i.e enemy capability, sub handling etc.... but I also want a guarantee when I go out I get to blow stuff up! And the U-Boat add on delivers that in spades, I just have to get used to using it in this scenario and not the GWX scenario.

[Fincuan]

I like historical accuracy in a game, i.e enemy capability, sub handling etc.... but I also want a guarantee when I go out I get to blow stuff up! And the U-Boat add on delivers that in spades, I just have to get used to using it in this scenario and not the GWX scenario.

Aye, I feel almost sorry for them Atlantic folks after a few patrols around Australia(literally). Haven't seen a single destoyer yet(though I heard one and buggered out as fast as I could), the weather has generally been nice and even the nights are so warm that my(quite muscular btw. I wonder where they train during patrols?) crew is sporting shorts and t-shirts 24/7. Convoys are plenty and they're all filled with those juicy T3s and Liberty ships, not to mention the nonexistent escorts. It's entirely possible that the radio message ordering us to return to Germany will be "not be received" :lol:

[Wilcke]

HIstorical Monsun Boat Campaign is in the works by Lurker_hlb! Send cases of beverages to him for his efforts.

[Rockin Robbins]

What's lurker to do? Our presence raising hell in the area is not historical. Our presence is a little historical but the U-Boats weren't able to run amok like we are. Our hypothetical rampage would have resulted in quite a different traffic pattern than what historically actually took place.

It's the old Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle where the presence of the observer skews the results of data collection. We're doing a lot more than observing. We are intruducing torpedoes into the historical environment. The environment would have reacted to that.

It will be fun to see what lurker comes up with.:up:

[Bewolf]

'Scuse me? "Evil crew?!" We're not "evil" we are just nasty buggers who enjoy making subsimmers suffer.:yep::D

The stupid part is, I'm pretty decent in a fleet boat. But this add on, something is not sitting quite right there. I think, and this is only conjecture... but I think that maybe the problem is me. I am treating the IXD2 like a U-Boat when in fact I would probably be more served to treat it like a fleet boat.

I probably need more practice in it to get a feel for it better than I am. I think the problem is me. I can't help but think the add on is doing something different to SH3.

Not only that... not to toot our horns but the IXD2 in GWX is far superior in terms of handling etc. The IXD2 in the add on feels far too agile and nimble and its got the whole "on rails" thing going on plowing through the sea with impunity. I also have a couple of doubts about its endurance submerged, it should be able to do a bit better. Again going on GWX as a guide.

The attacking part is not a problem lots of familiarity there to SH3 that is cool. I have noted a need on my part to refine my surface attack strategy in this. i.e. getting into position without alerting the enemy.

Also the campaign in this while alright, is not as good as its US counterpart I feel.

Generally speaking I need more practice... but... I will say this much... when I load SH4 on the odd occasion despite being a U-Boat fan, I am more inclined to play Fleet Boat than U-Boat the moment.

Like you Rock, I think I need to force myself into the IXD2 a bit more.

I need to have a proper play, complete a patrol first before I can really analyse this.

*nods*

pretty much know what you mean. The feel in SHIV is different for sure. Fleetboats are whole different cup of coffee to u.boats in mood, handling, threats and tactics. THe engine and looks of SHIV kinda connect to it. It's a very special atmosphere, very different from that of the Atlantic, and certainly alien at first. But the longer you play it, the better it gets until you don't want to miss it anymore. The immersion densitiy is so much better to the world unrelaed to the boat. While the boat menues itself keeps a distance to the crew and boat unlike in SHIII. So the world grows more important. The radio (what a great idea!) keeps running, the map now shows those icons, the out of game menues are so much more atmospheric that it's not so much the boat you feel connected with anymore, but the whole world itself.

Suddenly getting your good ole Type IX into this world feels wrong at first. It doesn't fit here. This is the world of NBC commercials. Instead of the OKW and the Wehrmachtsbericht you listen to Radio Hawaii. You do not wrap into your oil gear to withstands the cold and gritty North Atlantic...no, you patrol between the coast of Africa and the Far East, with all the atmospheric feelings this brings. Suddenly you feel as disconnected to your U-boat as you did with the fleetboats. You constantly have to remember yourself these boats acually operated in this area, and this is not some kind of hypothetical mod idea. It certainly takes a while until you readjust. But once you realize and accept it, you'll smile big time. And you can only wonder how this game will truely be after the mod teams did their work and you are back to the Atlantic. But this time with the knowledge there is a real war going on on the other side of the world as well.

Ubisoft truely did a marvelous job with this Add-on.

[Penelope_Grey]

In my view the fact we are playing the game SH4 (fleetboat or U-Boat) at all is a "what if" scenario.

The pursuit of realism can be worthwhile, but you can take it too far. IMO

[Wilcke]

What's lurker to do? Our presence raising hell in the area is not historical. Our presence is a little historical but the U-Boats weren't able to run amok like we are. Our hypothetical rampage would have resulted in quite a different traffic pattern than what historically actually took place.

It's the old Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle where the presence of the observer skews the results of data collection. We're doing a lot more than observing. We are intruducing torpedoes into the historical environment. The environment would have reacted to that.

It will be fun to see what lurker comes up with.:up:

He is sheer genius and tenacious! Worth the price of admission those $10! Fine thing this Addon!

[Rockin Robbins]

And what a great bunch of people to have working on this. The SH4UBM add-on is truly marvelous. And let's not get too hung up on rivet counting. Lurker has a track record and it's amazingly good. I trust whatever he comes up with.

It's like Ducimus. He comes up with this idiotic idea of airplanes that can bomb you below the surface. It's a terrible idea! Nobody in their right minds would do such a thing. Oh, yeah? Give it a try and it rocks! A whole new unimagined dimension in the sim opens up to those who suspend judgment and give it a try.

The add-on is great to begin with. Now the best modders are fiddling with it to really open up the possibilities. And this is all working because the devs did exactly what they promised, plus they made some gutsy decisions that work beautifully.

Are there still bugs? Sure. Would they make a graphic artist lose his job? Yes. Do they ruin the gameplay? No. And I'd love to get rid of the "rudder.......rudder." But I'm having fun anyway with a great subsim.:up:

[Ducimus]

If i had a nickle for every "WTH's up with the planes?!?" comment, i could retire. :D


Penelope, This is an assumption on my part, but i think you spent too much time in a type7 and too little type in a type9 while playing SH3. :D The "Type IX club" should feel right at home here. :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

I thought I'd share asking about the difference between the Fast-90 and Dick O'Kane attacks. I hope it helps both U-Boat and Fleet Boat skippers.

I looked at your Dick O'Kane Tutorial on Werner Sobe's thread, and at the Wazoo manual targetting page that describes the Fast-90 approach. I thought O'Kane's method was the Fast-90 method? What differences am I missing here?

The only thing I see is the uboat TDC calculates AOB for you so you can make higher gyroangle shots easier (faster), tho as I recall this is still possible in the US boat with an extra click.

Thanks for that tutorial by the way... I really really hated the stadimeter, your tutorial explained it so well, it got me into using manual targetting. That's it's intent: to take the intimidation out of quickly entering all those parameters in the heat of battle and eliminating the uncertainty of the stadimeter. Even if you're good at the stadimeter, I love setting up a whole attack half an hour before I shoot!

Fast-90 vs Dick O'Kane. They're the same, mathematically, but different mechanically because they were developed in different boats. Once you turn off the PK and nuke your stadimeter, there's one difference left between the U-Boats and Fleet Boats: the periscope can be linked to the TDC in the U-Boat.

That means as you aim the scope the aiming point of the torpedo changes AND the AoB is automatically updated as well. So, to set up a Fast-90, first you set your periscope at zero. Then you set bearing to zero and AoB to 90 starboard or port, depending on which way the target is coming from. Once all that is done, press the lock TDC to periscope button, which locks out manual TDC changes as well. From now on, pointing the periscope moves the aiming point of the torpedo, and changes the AoB automatically. You can shoot any time with a good probability of a precise hit. I'd shoot between left 30º and right 30º from zero bearing.

In the fleet boat the TDC is only updated when we push the send range/bearing button and when we dial up a new AoB and press the send button on that. So we have to decide ahead of time on what bearing we're going to shoot. I just use 10º before zero bearing for fast and 20º for slow or electric torpedoes.

So you point the scope at the shoot bearing (example 350º for 10º before zero to the left) and press the send range/bearing button. You subtract the 10º lead angle from 90º and enter starboard 80º for the Aob in this case of target coming left to right. Now you point the scope at 350º and shoot as the target reaches the crosshairs.

U-Boat people have trouble understanding the mechanics of the Dick O'Kane. But a fleet boat guy can do a Dick O'Kane in the U-Boat by just not hooking up the periscope with the TDC and entering the numbers manually, just like the fleet boat. If you hook the periscope to the TDC, you've switched to the Fast-90, which is impossible in the fleet boat.

Clear as mud?:rotfl:

[Penelope_Grey]

I think I have spent too much time in the Type II's and VII's.

I used to be a huge Type IX fan...:hmm:

And yes Rock... clear as mud!

[Jimbuna]

<Privateer, you have the helm for now sir.>
Your boat has insurance right. :huh:

LOL :rotfl:

[Ducimus]

I think I have spent too much time in the Type II's and VII's.

I used to be a huge Type IX fan...:hmm:


I thought so!

Heres a litttle something from my SH3 days. :D

May as well call it, "Type9 skipper tries his luck with a type7".

http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_01.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_02.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_03.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_04.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_05.jpg