What do you think of this mobo?

[bert8for3]

I was looking at this motherboard and processor combo... http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3403908&CatId=1599 . What do you think? I don't know a whole lot about mobos, so I could use some advice. I'm thinking of upgrading specifically to run SH3 (and maybe eventually SH4) better. Right now, I'm maxed out on 1G RAM. Sure would be nice to have more, but only way is to replace the mobo. Of course, having started thinking that way, I'd also have to get a new vidcard, 'cause mine is AGP, and it looks like mobos only come with PCIe slots now. I could probably swallow that on the basis that I could just plug everything else (hard drive etc) into the new mobo. I'd have overkill on the RAM capacity with this mobo, as I'd want to keep running on XP, which I gather is limited to recognizing 4G RAM (or 3-point something for some obscure reason). Anyway, what do you think of this combo?

[GlobalExplorer]

Can't say much about this one but I am keeping an eye on the Abit IP35 Pro and a Wolfdale 3 GHz.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3142

[TarJak]

You'll get plenty of life out of this one. SH3 though is single threaded and doesn't take multiprocessor capability into consideration so it will only ever use 1/4 of the processing power you get this this rig. The price looks OK as well.

You might want to think about the HDD though. If you've got an older board chances are it will be IDE only which may mean changing up to a SATA HDD instead. What GFX card are you looking at?

Also what PSU do you have? You might want to look at upgrading that while you're at it cos you might find that your old one isn't up to driving all the new kit either.

[bert8for3]

@GlobalExplorer. Tks, I'll look at that to compare.
@TarJak. Tks also. Assume you mean the one I mentioned? Yup I can imagine it's a bit of overkill processing power wise, but at the same time I'm thinking if I upgrade I may as well look forward a ways and be ready for running Vista at some point in time or even heavier games (altho sh3 will have me going for a long time yet).
Yes, my HDD is IDE, but AFAIK it would plug in, although not be as fast on the interface. But that way I could eventually upgrade the HDD.
I think I'm good on the psu, 'cause I got a new one (450 W I think) a while ago to power a new vidcard.
I haven't thought about the vidcard yet ... beyond thinking ATI, which is just because I have one now.

[bert8for3]

BTW just for a follow-up query, I've been assuming that once everything's plugged in to the new mobo and I boot up, apart from maybe having to do some bios config, my existing Windows install on the hard drive will happily start up and aside from recognizing and installing the new vidcard like any other new hardware, all else will be warm and fuzzy. Am I right about that, or am I delusional that it should be that simple?

[XLjedi]

BTW just for a follow-up query, I've been assuming that once everything's plugged in to the new mobo and I boot up, apart from maybe having to do some bios config, my existing Windows install on the hard drive will happily start up and aside from recognizing and installing the new vidcard like any other new hardware, all else will be warm and fuzzy. Am I right about that, or am I delusional that it should be that simple?

Theorhetically... warm and fuzzy.
In actual practice... probably delusional.

We like to hope for the best though right?

I would start with making sure you have the mobo chipset drivers working before trying to update anything else (like the GPU).

Two months after my HD crash, I'm still trying to strike that perfect balance between BIOS, Vista64, and nVidia Drivers, such that my GPU might be recognized. :damn: I think I may have it narrowed down to the nVidia Vista64 driver doesn't like the DVI cable (as opposed to VGA) for some reason... haven't tested that yet though.

[GlobalExplorer]

You will have to reinstall the OS. Once you have done it one or two times it's not hard.

[bert8for3]

Yup, that's what I figured :D , I tend to be delusional about these things, thinking it's easier than it may actually be. I'm geared up for it now, though. If I have to reinstall the OS, that's not a big deal. Tks. I'll have to start thinking about the vidcard.

[bert8for3]

Having put this on ice for a while, I'm going ahead with new components. Here's what I have in mind, although I'm not sure that the image will be readable:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/bert8for3/Newcomppost.jpg

The mobo is the same one I had in mind before. I suppose the only thing might be that it's not PCIe 2.0, just PCIe, but is that a big deal.

Otherwise, as far as I can see, existing IDE drives would plug in ok. The new case is compatible according to form factor and some review comments. The PCIe Radeon X1650 pro is the same as the one I have now (which is AGP though, so will have to replace). But I see another Radeon card which has 1G for only $17 more.

I'd sure appreciate any comments in terms of compatibility or otherwise. I was looking at these things on the following links:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3557020&Sku=MCM-680ILT-Q6600A
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1215768&Sku=ULT31824
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571838&CatId=1558
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3642162&CatId=2306

[bert8for3]

I've boiled this down to two questions after some more research (which sounds way fancier than it actually was).

1. The mobo is PCIe. Do I need to be fussed about PCIe 2.0? I'm thinking not really. 2pt0 is not yet standard and PCIe should be good (in terms of add-in or upgrade cards) for a good while.

2. This one just occurred to me ... I'm looking at putting an ATI vidcard on a mobo which is nVidia-particular. But is that a big deal? Not sure of the answer to that one.

I'd sure appreciate some input here. :help:

[JSLTIGER]

I think that you'd be better served by either a GeForce 8800 series or a GeForce 9600GT than the X1650s (which these days are outdated). It should cost about the same as well. The only thing I'd be worried about on that motherboard is the active cooling. If that fan goes, you could lose the whole board.

Unless you need the absolute latest, I wouldn't worry about PCIe 2.0. It won't matter for a good while yet, and by the time it does, you'll likely need an entirely new system anyway.

[bert8for3]

I think that you'd be better served by either a GeForce 8800 series or a GeForce 9600GT than the X1650s (which these days are outdated). It should cost about the same as well. The only thing I'd be worried about on that motherboard is the active cooling. If that fan goes, you could lose the whole board.

Unless you need the absolute latest, I wouldn't worry about PCIe 2.0. It won't matter for a good while yet, and by the time it does, you'll likely need an entirely new system anyway.

Tks, I'll look at the GeForce cards. I get a bit antsy about them seeing comments quite frequently about Nvidia card problems.

I'm not sure what the active cooling is ... the chipset fan on the mobo presumably? I'll try to look at that, but if you could add a word about why that might be a problem, sure appreciated. Is the problem the fan itself? Is the fan replaceable?

Finally, that's pretty much what I was thinking about PCIe 2.0, but tks much for confirming. :up:

[JSLTIGER]

I'm not sure what the active cooling is ... the chipset fan on the mobo presumably? I'll try to look at that, but if you could add a word about why that might be a problem, sure appreciated. Is the problem the fan itself? Is the fan replaceable?

That fan on the chipset is the active cooling on the motherboard, and I'd caution against it. I don't know if that model's fan is replacable or not, but inherent in having a fan on the motherboard is that if the fan dies, the chipset might not have a cutoff, which would result in overheating and motherboard failure. Personally, I'd try to find a motherboard with passive cooling (i.e. a heatsink). Not only will you not have to worry about the fan dying, it will be quieter overall.

[bert8for3]

I'm not sure what the active cooling is ... the chipset fan on the mobo presumably? I'll try to look at that, but if you could add a word about why that might be a problem, sure appreciated. Is the problem the fan itself? Is the fan replaceable?

That fan on the chipset is the active cooling on the motherboard, and I'd caution against it. I don't know if that model's fan is replacable or not, but inherent in having a fan on the motherboard is that if the fan dies, the chipset might not have a cutoff, which would result in overheating and motherboard failure. Personally, I'd try to find a motherboard with passive cooling (i.e. a heatsink). Not only will you not have to worry about the fan dying, it will be quieter overall.

Tks/understood, I'll have a look at some others to compare.

[bert8for3]

edit: scratch the below (>><<). I was reading Rubini's nVidia tweaking post, and it just looks like potential trouble, so I'm gonna go for an ATI card which means choosing another mobo. ... by the time I get through this, everything will be obsolete and I'll have to start over. :doh:

>>I'm looking at GeForce cards now. There's e.g. XFX GeForce, EVGA GeForce, BFG GeForce and some other "types". Presumably that's the GeForce technology being made/sold under license to various companies. ... Is one name "better" than another? I haven't been through them all, but some comparable (eg 8800) cards seem cheaper under one name than another.<<

[JSLTIGER]

The best are eVGA and XFX...both have lifetime warranties on their cards.

[SUBMAN1]

If I can throw my opinion in here - Intel is in the middle of massive price cuts to try and push AMD to the brink. Wait a week or two - you'll save quite a bit of money.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Here is what is happening at Intel - http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04/22/intel_april_price_cuts/

-S

[bert8for3]

I just want to say thanks first of all for your comments; I’m fairly computer savvy, but my knowledge ceiling on nitty-gritty component stuff is pretty low :huh: . I think my head started to spin a bit after subsequently looking at some more mobo’s (talk about having too many choices – quite apart from not necessarily understanding everything 100%) – and of course, every product has +/- aspects and reviews - but that’s computing). So make it simpler, I’m kind of starting over here, or at least summarizing where I seem to be. Some or even a lot of the comments below are yours; apologies if for convenience I’m not quoting directly.

I’ve got two options now, let’s say Option A is a GeForce card and related mobo and Option B is the ATI card and related mobo.

Option A

I was looking at XFX nForce 680i LT SLI Motherboard CPU Bundle … http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3557020&Sku=MCM-680ILT-Q6600A … looks good, but there was a concern here about the active cooling on the mobo. I checked with TigerDirect today and the chipset fans are replaceable with third party cooling products. So I would go with this if not for hesitation about GeForce cards.

The consensus (I asked TigerDirect about it as well) is that its preferable not to put an ATI card on this GeForce-optimized (my expression) mobo. The suggestion is that eVGA and XFX GeForce 8800 series or 9600GT would be best. So I’ve looked eg at XFX GeForce 9600 GT Video Card - XXX Edition http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3637550&CatId=1826 and XFX GeForce 8800 GT Video Card - Alpha Dog Edition http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3427124&CatId=1826 , just to take two. There seem to be six kazillion kinds of 8800 card, so I’m having a hard time figuring this out. Could use some advice here.

However, the basic problem here is that I’m hesitant about GeForce cards. I have no bias against them, just that I’ve read various things on subsim that suggest that GeForce cards may be problematic or not as good out of the box as ATI cards, and need at least some tweaking, eg Rubini’s thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128517 . Tweaking as such doesn’t bother me, at least up to a point; what makes me hesitate is end-quality between GeForce and ATI cards. :hmm:

My hesitation may well be overdone, of course. As we all know, every product has pluses and minuses in the reviews (not to mention what review do you believe as ultimate truth).

Option B

I’ve looked at Abit IP35 Pro which was mentioned … http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3263080&CatId=1533 . That gets a nice review and I guess I would go for that . http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3142 . And I’ve looked at Intel Core 2 quad and Core 2 Duo processors. Would go for either one I suppose. I’ve also looked at other mobos including Intel, Asus, MSI, but I’m having trouble differentiating (beyond a certain point) between them and don’t know in terms of quality generally whether eg I should avoid Asus (or any other brand) period. :o

For the vidcard, I would have gone with ATI Radeon X1650 Pro Video Card http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571838&CatId=1826 , but it’s said this may be an older card/technology now. (I have the AGP version and it’s been great). I wouldn’t be sure what to go to with ATI (or Diamond??) … the X1950Pro?

Waiting a week or two ‘cause Intel prices may come down has also been mentioned (although the mobo bundle pricing in option A will expire 04/30).

So If I could be a pain and ask for a bit more comment still, maybe I can get my head around this.

Thanks again everyone :up: . Sorry for the too-long post.

[Zantham]

bert8for3 you might want to also check out www.ncix.com, they are also a Canadian distributer, and quite often cheaper than Tigerdirect. For example:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3637550&CatId=1826
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29310&vpn=PVT94PYDDU&manufacture=XFX

I believe they will pricematch also.

I agree with avoid active cooling on the motherboard. Even if the fan is replaceable, you may not find out it needs replacing until your motherboard no longer works because its northbridge overheated.

There is no issues with dropping an ATI card on an nVidia board, nor putting an nVidia card on an Intel chipset board. The issue comes in when you try to add a second video card. You cannot Crossfire an nVidia board, nor can you SLI an Intel-chipset board. There may be exceptions, but I'm not aware of them.


The GeForce 8800 series: 8800GT comes in 256, 512, 1GB versions. Best bang for buck of the 8800's I think. Unless you plan to run 1920x1200 or higher, or heavy antialiasing, these cards are affordable and fast.

GeForce 8800GTS has undergone some revisions. Earlier ones were inferior to the 8800GT and came in 320MB and 640MB versions. Newer ones use the newer GPU core, and I think come in 512MB version. Others can chip in here.

GeForce 8800GTX 768MB is a strong card, mine plays SH4 at 2560x1600 with the high-res Pacific environment mod enabled, and never drops below 30fps (usually well over 60fps). Has been somewhat replaced by the GeForce 8800 Ultra.

GeForce 8800 Ultra is essentially an overclocked GTX. There was no redesign done to the GTX except very minor ones. The Ultra was to replace the GTX, but you can still get GTX's all over the place. Some earlier Ultra's had serious problems with heat.

GeForce 9800GTX: bears little semblance to the 8800GTX, is more equivalent to an 8800GT in terms of comparative product performance. A person with an 8800GTX would not really wish to upgrade to a 9800GTX generally.

Currently the fastest video card out is the GeForce 9800 GX2. The closest ATI has is the HD3870x2, which is a bit slower, and a lot cheaper.

Processors: very little currently will get full use out of a quad core CPU. SH3 never exceeds 50% total CPU use on my system, which basically means it only uses the equivalent of 2 cores. The general consensus right now is its better to spend the same oney on a faster dual core than a slower quad core. Of course, if you have software that can take full advantage of quad core, then that changes things. Also, the quad core will be more futureproof, as you can be certain that software makers will start making their software compatible with multiple cores. The question being... by the time games come out that require quad core, will a current quad be fast enough?

The Core 2 Quad q6600 has been replaced now with the more efficient Q9xxx series. These are built on 45nm process so should run cooler, and if you really want to, should overclock better. Also has more cache memory (6MB instead of 4MB) and a faster FSB, besides running at 2.5GHz compared to 2.4GHz (q6600 vs q9300).
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29252&vpn=EU80580PJ0606M&manufacture=Intel


ATI x1650 is old news. You want at minimum a midrange HD2xxx series card, or a HD3xxx series card. You can get a HD3850 512MB card for under $200CDN now.

[bert8for3]

@Zantham. Wow, that's great, tks for all your comments :|\\ :up: . Gonna sit down, do a bit more researching, and then ... decide :yep:

[Stealth Hunter]

You'll get plenty of life out of this one. SH3 though is single threaded and doesn't take multiprocessor capability into consideration so it will only ever use 1/4 of the processing power you get this this rig. The price looks OK as well.

You might want to think about the HDD though. If you've got an older board chances are it will be IDE only which may mean changing up to a SATA HDD instead. What GFX card are you looking at?

Also what PSU do you have? You might want to look at upgrading that while you're at it cos you might find that your old one isn't up to driving all the new kit either.

Indeed, and this, children, is one of the reasons that I do not like SH3. It's fun, but the dual core processor on my PC just isn't used to the fullest of its potential, and to add to that, SH3 takes FOREVER to load, despite the fact I'm well above the recommended requirements (loading a mission, that is; takes about 4 minutes!!!!). That's why it gets so repetitive. I can pretty much play one mission and then I'm done. Otherwise, it just wears my patience out.

[bert8for3]

This is what I love about buying computer stuff :rotfl: ... 2G RAM for $19.99 ... http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1558870&Sku=C19-4332 ... wow! great deal. Then you look at the reviews and some guy (who may well be correct ... or not) says it's single-sided high density and prone to high failure rates. :damn: Now I have to spend time researching and becoming an expert on the pros and cons of single-sided high density RAM? :huh: ... don't think so.

Beyond a certain point, you just have to accept that basically any computer component can go kablooie at any time. D**n the torpedoes, full speed ahead! :arrgh!:

[bert8for3]

Well, to wind this up, I thought I'd mention what I finally went for:

Mobo Abit IP35 Pro
Intel Core Duo Wolfdale 3 GHz
4G Crucial ram
Zerotherm Butterfly cpu cooler
ATI Radeon 3870 512M
+ other bits and pieces

Put it all together Friday and yesterday and booted up ... wow!

I reinstalled SH3 up to GWX2.0 (haven't yet added mods in) and started it up to see how it is. The comp doesn't even break into mild condensation, never mind a sweat. :rock:

My thanks again to everyone for all the comments and advice. :up: