1MC Schematics???

[M. Sarsfield]

Does anyone have or know where to find copies of schemtaics for the 1MC and alarm system? We know that we need to re-attach the wires in the main switch box (they were cut), but it would also be nice to know what circuit panels/fuse boxes that it runs through.

[Donner]

I really don't know if this will help or not.

You can find the primary instruction training manuals for the fleet type submarine online at maritime.org. Here is the link to NavPers 16162 Submarine Electrical Installations on that site. http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

Or you can purchase a CD of this manual (and others) in PDF form here...http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id41.htm

:ping:

[M. Sarsfield]

Yeah, we're familiar with that site/book. Chapter 16 is too general for what we're trying to figure out.

[shoot-kill-win]

I know for sure that the blueprints for all the systems on the Batfish are at the Batfish museum, I recall seeing a 1mc blueprint the last time I looked through them in Nov. Just ask Rick where they are.

[M. Sarsfield]

Cool. I'll ask him this weekend. I'm half tempted to bring my soldering gun and wire stripper with me and at least reconnect the cut wires.

[shoot-kill-win]

Go ahead Rick wont mind as long as you ask him.

[Bill Nichols]

I know for sure that the blueprints for all the systems on the Batfish are at the Batfish museum, I recall seeing a 1mc blueprint the last time I looked through them in Nov. Just ask Rick where they are.


I went through the Batfish (a self-guided tour) when I was in Muskogee once (don't ask me why I was there ;) ). While in the maneuvering room, I opened up one of the bench lockers out of curiosity and was surprised to find a thick stack of blueprints for the electrical system. :o I could have easily walked off with some souveniers; fortunately, I'm an honest fellow. :yep:

:ahoy:

[M. Sarsfield]

I'll mention it to Rick (museum curator). Although, you have to get past the cashier with the blue prints, someone could easily toss them over the fence into the parking lot and retrieve them on the other side. Thanks, Bill. :)

[shoot-kill-win]

Over the summer, Rick and I went through the Maneuvering room alot, and Rick and I even tried to get down in the motor room -underneath the maneuvering room- which involves moving the bench seats, and there were no blueprints around. For now I think all the Blueprints are in the office.
But it is good that you are checking with Rick.

[M. Sarsfield]

In the pump room under the con we were opening storage cabinets to see what was left behind and there were random pump parts, but nothing to brag about. One of the pumps was partially cannibalized, but I was surprised to see most of the equipment still intact.

[AVGWarhawk]

How is week to week happenings handled at the Batfish? Her papers and achrives are kept were? At the Torsk, all paperwork, old photos and achrives are kept under lock and key, forward battery.

Also, all members are part of a forum set up just for the Torsk. It is for general use and also to post how many man hours were spent for the week and what was done by each. This information is collected by one person via email. This information is logged and used later on down the road when we approach the city of Baltimore when we need cash. Basically it shows a general interest in keeping up with the Torsk. We offer up the total man hours spent for the year. It is good bargaining chip for things we need.


The small hallway between manuevering and the aft engineroom there should be a hatch to get down below maneuvering. Here you can access the motors that are attached to the props and also look inside the sight glass at the brushes for the motors. It is a tight fit! Wanna have some fun, try to squeeze between the diesels and the outer hull. Watch you head!!! This is the place were you can find some old artifacts also. Great additions to her history.

[M. Sarsfield]

I was in the pump room and lower engine room (I forget whether fore or aft). I know which hatch that you speak of and I'll have to make it a point to look around down there. We're allowed to go just about anywhere as long as we're not a detriment to ourselves or the boat.

Our battery compartments have some stuff stored in them, but I was surprised at how big they are. I think you could hold an arena football game in there. :)

As for logging hours, Rick is working out those bugs. We're starting to keep track of how much money we raise for her restoration. They cut down a bunch of brush and trees around the memorial property so that she is a lot more visible to the highway traffic nearby. We're hoping that it attracts more attention and revenue this way.

As far as regular maintenace goes, I think it's only a few people that work on her on a regular basis. My hopeful attempt at restoring the 1MC system will be my first real maintenance activity. The question in my mind is how old is the equipment? She was decommissioned in 1969 and as much as I like original equipment, solid state electronics are a lot easier to work on/with. I'm guessing that it will be a 1950's or 60's box. The biggest concern is what condition the capacitors are in. Old capaictors tend to dry rot and crumble. This would require removing the circuit boards and soldering on new capacitors. The other trick is figuring out where the 1MC gets its power from and re-energizing those circuits. Do you know if it runs through the huge circuit breaker panel in the con near the helm or does it go to a small fuse box?

[AVGWarhawk]

I will not be much help with the electrical things. I do not get into this area much. We have a few Electrican Mates aboard who do these things. I stay out of their way. I'm always afraid to touch these things and watch them fry. I can always inquire for you about it if you like. Give me a list of specific questions about the piece you are working on and it will inquire.

[Bill Nichols]

I'll mention it to Rick (museum curator). Although, you have to get past the cashier with the blue prints, someone could easily toss them over the fence into the parking lot and retrieve them on the other side. Thanks, Bill. :)


I should have mentioned, my story was from more than 10-years ago, and I did mention my find to the cashier. I'm not surprised that they would have been moved since then.

:sunny:

[M. Sarsfield]

I should have mentioned, my story was from more than 10-years ago, and I did mention my find to the cashier. I'm not surprised that they would have been moved since then.

Rick thinks that everything has been moved to a storage room, but he will double check and he appreciates the heads up.

[M. Sarsfield]

I will not be much help with the electrical things. I do not get into this area much. We have a few Electrican Mates aboard who do these things. I stay out of their way. I'm always afraid to touch these things and watch them fry. I can always inquire for you about it if you like. Give me a list of specific questions about the piece you are working on and it will inquire.

I got the green light to solder or wire nut the wires this Saturday - it probably runs on 110 volts and may be 16 gauge wire if the wires that they cut were actually in a junction box, as opposed to the actual 1MC box. I'll take my digital camera and take a few photos so that it will be easier to explain.

[AVGWarhawk]

No problem!!! When you have pics PM me and I will forward my email address to you. Send them there and I will print and bring aboard for the guys on the Torsk to look over. I will do my best to get you the answers you need on your questions. The only thing I can think to tell you, be careful of the voltage these submarines run on. I was talking with Gil about the TDC on the Torsk and asked if it functions. He started talking about 60 cycles and 400 cycles, some reostat, yadda yadda yadda...my head hurt. :doh:
If I'm not mistaken a lot of the things function on DC (direct current). I was told that some things on the Torsk were converted to AC/DC such as fans to circulate the air, etc. Check and re-check before you power up. FIRE is a four letter word!!!! :o

[M. Sarsfield]

If we have the electrical schematics for the system, it should show us the voltage for that particular box.

I wouldn't be surprised if something unique like the TDC ran on some funky voltage/current setup.

[M. Sarsfield]

I found this in the electrical chapter of the 1946 Fleet Boat manual:

The Main generators are rated at approximately 2650 amperes at 415 volts and 1100 kilowatts.

Description of the auxiliary generator. The 300-kw direct current auxiliary generator Is a two-wire, compensated, differential compound machine. The generator is self-excited, but the switching is arranged so that separate excitation may be obtained from the battery. The machines can produce 300 kw at 1200 rpm at any voltage from 260 volts to 345 volts, and 150 kw at 600 rpm at 260 volts.

6C2. Searchlight. The 12-inch incandescent signal searchlight requires a 120-volt d.c. supply. It is not considered a part of the lighting system because the supply is taken from a fused, double pole, single throw switch on the I.C. switchboard and led to a pressure-proof receptacle and snap switch on the bridge.

Other devices like heaters, coffee pots, the stove, etc. run on 240 or 250 Volts. I'll have to look in the communications and alarms chapter to see if it mentions the voltage for that system.

[AVGWarhawk]

After all the technical jargon I was lost on the TDC issue. All I wanted to know is if it worked. I basically surmised it needs a few parts to connect the scope and TBT to it. It has not been powered up for some time. The con is a serious work in progress and something that is done during winter. Summer time you just bake like a potato in there. Visitors are not allowed in the con. It is just to hazardous really. I bump my head or crack an elbow everytime I go up to use the scope to spot some of the chicks walking in the inner harbor:p Magnification is such a wonderful thing;)

[AVGWarhawk]

I found this in the electrical chapter of the 1946 Fleet Boat manual:

The Main generators are rated at approximately 2650 amperes at 415 volts and 1100 kilowatts.
Description of the auxiliary generator. The 300-kw direct current auxiliary generator Is a two-wire, compensated, differential compound machine. The generator is self-excited, but the switching is arranged so that separate excitation may be obtained from the battery. The machines can produce 300 kw at 1200 rpm at any voltage from 260 volts to 345 volts, and 150 kw at 600 rpm at 260 volts.
6C2. Searchlight. The 12-inch incandescent signal searchlight requires a 120-volt d.c. supply. It is not considered a part of the lighting system because the supply is taken from a fused, double pole, single throw switch on the I.C. switchboard and led to a pressure-proof receptacle and snap switch on the bridge.
Other devices like heaters, coffee pots, the stove, etc. run on 240 or 250 Volts. I'll have to look in the communications and alarms chapter to see if it mentions the voltage for that system.

Good find:up: Like I said, the voltages are very different than working on the type of radio we use today. I see the DC current for the searchlight. Something I mention! So just be careful and think before you power it up:up: BTW, if you can get the searchlight in close to function order, switch it to AC/DC for standard electrical service. I'm betting a new socket and bulb could be retrofitted. Same thing we did with the fans and the radar motor to make it run.

[M. Sarsfield]

The I.C. systems of a modern fleet type submarine usually consist of about 24 circuits. With few exceptions, they are supplied with power through the I.C. switchboard located in the control room. ... as I suspected...


Collision alarm system (circuit CA)
General alarm system (circuit G)
Diving alarm system (circuit GD)
General announcing system (circuit 1MC)
Submarine control announcing system (circuit 7MC)


8A2. Systems requiring alternating current....
General announcing systems (alarm signals and voice communication)

b. Source of power. The alternating current power supply to this switchboard is obtained from the I.C. motor generators which are comprised of either 250-volt d.c. motors and 120-volt a.c. generators, or 120-volt d.c. motors and 120-volt a.c. generators, depending upon the type of installation.


Looks like I answered my own questions. I guess it's a matter of getting AC power to the circuit board in the control room, then.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, it looks that way. Just love puzzles:D So based on this we run 120 volts AC and it says 120 volts depending on the installation. Just check to make sure she be a 120 volt AC installation. If that checks out, then standard current we use now should work to power it up. Personally, I would disconnect everything to main panel before the power up. Mark all the connection etc. If the panel powers up without issue, connect the peripherals it feeds one by one. Keep a fire extinquisher handy!

Things like this make you want to quite your day job and just go work on the sub!

[M. Sarsfield]

BTW, if you can get the searchlight in close to function order, switch it to AC/DC for standard electrical service. I'm betting a new socket and bulb could be retrofitted. Same thing we did with the fans and the radar motor to make it run.

I think that they did convert it to A.C. It has its own cable and plug on the bridge. Sometimes they plug it into an extension cord, but the seal is bad on the light housing and water gets in there. The shutters for sending morse code look like they need a little oil, too.

Up in the conning tower is the switch box for turning on nav lights, search light, etc., but they rewired some of the switches to turn the lights on and off in the conning tower. I think the navigation lights still are connected and working.

[M. Sarsfield]

Yes, it looks that way. Just love puzzles:D So based on this we run 120 volts AC and it says 120 volts depending on the installation. Just check to make sure she be a 120 volt AC installation. If that checks out, then standard current we use now should work to power it up. Personally, I would disconnect everything to main panel before the power up. Mark all the connection etc. If the panel powers up without issue, connect the peripherals it feeds one by one. Keep a fire extinquisher handy!

I just fund out that Rick and two other regulars are electronic gurus. I told them where the find the two A.C. Generator Buses that feed the switch panel in the manual. They should be able to figure it out. The switch board also powers the engine telegraphs and the rudder indicator among other items. It would be nice to get them lit up, again.

[AVGWarhawk]

The seal should be an easy fix on the light. Go the the auto parts store and get sheet of gasket material. Very cheap and cut to fit! The things you mention seem small but once running with lights, she looks alive and this attracts visitors. Especially kids who just happen to bring along their parents!

We have an air conditioning unit under the superstructure that cools the Torsk during the summer....yeah I know, living large......anyway, you can hear it through out the boat. She sounds like she is running and ready to go when the AC is turned on. People really think she is can go at any moment. Radar spinning, AC making engine like noises. We have a few different colored lights lit up on panels in each room. Seems like small stuff to us but vistors eat it up.

The funniest thing a visitor every said to me was, "Where are the nuclear reactors?" He was serious:o. Phooey, I showed him the diesel/electric set up. Then I asked him to leave the boat....he scared me. So, the panel in manuevering is very active and powered up. The switches do function. So, if you get something working such as a main power panel, you will need to fashion a plexi glass enclosure. People can see the panel but can not start switching buttons.....and they all love doing that. Our enclosure is hinged so we can open it to tune things off and on.

[Donner]

The I.C. systems of a modern fleet type submarine usually consist of about 24 circuits. With few exceptions, they are supplied with power through the I.C. switchboard located in the control room. ... as I suspected...


Collision alarm system (circuit CA)
General alarm system (circuit G)
Diving alarm system (circuit GD)
General announcing system (circuit 1MC)
Submarine control announcing system (circuit 7MC)


8A2. Systems requiring alternating current....
General announcing systems (alarm signals and voice communication)

b. Source of power. The alternating current power supply to this switchboard is obtained from the I.C. motor generators which are comprised of either 250-volt d.c. motors and 120-volt a.c. generators, or 120-volt d.c. motors and 120-volt a.c. generators, depending upon the type of installation.


Looks like I answered my own questions. I guess it's a matter of getting AC power to the circuit board in the control room, then.

Looks like that manual wasn't "too general" after all. You know more now than you did yesterday. :know:

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, it looks that way. Just love puzzles:D So based on this we run 120 volts AC and it says 120 volts depending on the installation. Just check to make sure she be a 120 volt AC installation. If that checks out, then standard current we use now should work to power it up. Personally, I would disconnect everything to main panel before the power up. Mark all the connection etc. If the panel powers up without issue, connect the peripherals it feeds one by one. Keep a fire extinquisher handy!
I just fund out that Rick and two other regulars are electronic gurus. I told them where the find the two A.C. Generator Buses that feed the switch panel in the manual. They should be able to figure it out. The switch board also powers the engine telegraphs and the rudder indicator among other items. It would be nice to get them lit up, again.

Yep, talk it up gents. That is what we do and we find out a whole lot about everything! If you do get them going, start thinking about the plexi glass enclosure. You do not want the visitors screwing up what you just fixed. Plus it is for safety. The inspectors will want to look at it. In fact, they have a check list. Did you guys get a copy of the last inspection?

[M. Sarsfield]

Looks like that manual wasn't "too general" after all. You know more now than you did yesterday. :know:

Once I found the right chapters, it made sense. The chapter that actualy talks about the communication system doesn't say much about the power connections and I assumed that was all the book had to say about it.


If you do get them going, start thinking about the plexi glass enclosure. You do not want the visitors screwing up what you just fixed. Plus it is for safety. The inspectors will want to look at it. In fact, they have a check list. Did you guys get a copy of the last inspection?

I know that the part of the switch board with the double-pull throw switches are covered, but we will need to do the same for the other switch panels. Last thing we need is for visitors to energize the radar, if we haven't got it working, yet.:down:

Speaking of radar, our set looks like it may be '50's vintage - it still has to be tuned like an old tube radio, but it looks newer and smaller. Once we get the switch board energized, I'll tickle their ear about getting the radar/motor set working... if it needs any work. It would be cool to track cars going up and down the highway. :D

As for the inspection list, Rick probably does have the latest and greatest. I'll ask him on Saturday when we have our work detail meeting.

[AVGWarhawk]

What we do with the list, the weekend before they come to inspect we go over the list a do what needs to get done. Keeps them happy. Let me know what you find out with your electrical!

[shoot-kill-win]

[quote]Speaking of radar, our set looks like it may be '50's vintage - it still has to be tuned like an old tube radio, but it looks newer and smaller. Once we get the switch board energized, I'll tickle their ear about getting the radar/motor set working... if it needs any work. It would be cool to track cars going up and down the highway. :D[quote]

I sent Rick the Cobia's radar specifications because they have SD and other radar working, and are able to pick up ships in the harbor there. Hopefully Rick still has the specs on his email. If not let me know and I will look them up again and send them to you.

[M. Sarsfield]

The SD may be the same, but the SJ radar is definitely post war.

I looked at Cobia's website and they believe that they have the oldest operational SJ-1 radar set in existence. Here's a link with pictures and details... http://www.usscobia.com/sj-1.html. Our radar looks nothing like this. It's a single box with only a PPI display, tuning knobs, range counter, etc.

We need to find out the model number of the Batfish SJ radar and hope that someone still has a manual and blue prints for it. It looks like it's much easier to operate than the old WWII units.

[shoot-kill-win]

Those blueprints might be with all the other one in the museum. My guess is they would have put those with the original ones when it was still a training vessel in order for the radar men to understand how it worked. There are alot of blueprints, so it will take a while to look through them all.

[M. Sarsfield]

You're probably right. This will be interesting.

[shoot-kill-win]

I wish I could be there for that meeting, im dying to get back down to the Batfish and do some work to improve her. I miss that diesel smell.

[M. Sarsfield]

My navy dungarees still smell like her from our reenactment weekend in early Dec. I should start selling that smell as a car air freshner. :)

[shoot-kill-win]

Yes you should, I would definately buy it.

[M. Sarsfield]

I took a lots of pictures of the Batfish's 1MC/7MC, alarm, and switch board circuits. All I can say it... yeeesh....:doh: The equipment needs an overall, to say the least. Anybody have any ideas or leads on who would be a good source for repairing old equipment like this?

I plan on posting the pictures with comments on a website in the next day or so. I'll post the link here when it's up.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, it can get a bit scary looking at over 60 years of dust and build up. Saddened to say most who understand the old methods of getting electricity from point A to point B without blowing up the place have passed on. But, there are some out there that relish these old boards. Need to search.

Post those pics. I'm interesting in see what you are looking at.

[shoot-kill-win]

None of the volunteers can? Were any of the Ham radio operators there today? because I think alot of them are good at electronics. But let me see the pictures, and I will see if anyone knows.

[M. Sarsfield]

As savvy as Rick, Derrick, and Vaughn (sp?) are with electronics, it's still a lot of work. It's not so much figuring out what is routed where (surprisingly, I didn't notice many mods to the 1MC system, except for wires cut in a few places). The bigger issue at hand is determining if the equipment is capable and safe to run. Of course the slender, shiny box that looks like a telephone exchange has a number of wires cut, but other wires are still attached to the same terminals. I don't know if it could run as is or not. Mainly, the signal generator on the left and the upper Voltage Amplifier are missing tubes, which should be easy to find. My opinion of the wiring is poor, but it is asbestos wiring and we might be able to leave it as is, since it will never catch fire.

I need AVG Warhawk to forward this link below to his electrical gurus and give us any advice or war stories of their similar experiences...

http://www.352nd-mlha.com/Batfish%201MC/index.html

[AVGWarhawk]

I posted the picture link at the Torsk forums. Let see what it brings.

[M. Sarsfield]

Thanks. :)

I was doing some more thinking about the cut wires and the diving alarm. You'll notice that the diving alarm contactor has two cables that used to come out of it. According to the manual, one cable went into the signal generator(s) and the other bypasses the 1MC/7MC system completely and operates the H-9 diving horns found in almost every compartment - I have yet to see a single horn on the Batfish, though and if the diving gauges were stolen from her when it was being shipped up river, the horns may have grown legs and walked off, too.

What I don't know is where the junction box is that the diving alarm contactor connects to in order to operate the diving horns directly. Any advice on this would help us a lot, as well. We could probably get the horns running long before the 1MC comes back online.

Currently with the diving and collision alarms disconnected from the signal generators, I think the system could still operate as a PA and communication center. One of the voice amplifiers is completely intact as far as tubes go. A few fuses are missing behind the control panel up top, but that is easily fixable. I think they may have been removed when some of the alarms and one of the signal gnerators were diconnected. Whomever cut this stuff definitely had a method to their madness.

[AVGWarhawk]

Here are some responses from the Torsk crew. It ain't pretty:-?

http://www.torskphotoguy.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=321


As I stated before, the old wiring and tubes can be one huge hazard.

[shoot-kill-win]

No those responses arent very encouraging. I will check and see if my grandpa knows anyone who can fix it seeing that he lives about 30 miutes away from the Batfish. However it may be pointless based on what those Torsk guys said.

[M. Sarsfield]

There is a shock factor, too. The first time that anyone looks at it they just shake there head and walk away. Once you look past the 1 inch layer of dust, the components really aren't in that bad of shape. The worst that happens is either a capacitor fries or a tube blows. The wiring has asbestos insulation and I seriously doubt that a fire would start.

I'm going off of personal experience from using old tube radios in my poorer ham radio days. I've run some stuff that most people wouldn't touch. This is just a glorified PA system. I do appreciate the feedback, though.

Also, please ask them about the direct hook-up to the H-9 diving horns. There has to be a junction box somewhere in the control room that the diving alarm contactor would tie into - I'm referring to the back-up system that bypasses the 1MC in case it were not operational.

[shoot-kill-win]

Did you find the Blueprints for the systems?

[AVGWarhawk]

Another Torsk member said to clean it up. You can attempt to power it up but the caps and transformers may not be any good. The Batfish's is about the same condition as the Torsks.

[AVGWarhawk]

Also, please ask them about the direct hook-up to the H-9 diving horns. There has to be a junction box somewhere in the control room that the diving alarm contactor would tie into - I'm referring to the back-up system that bypasses the 1MC in case it were not operational.

I asked them. I know the Torsk's works. It is possible everything was bypassed and wired with new for each compartment in the Torsk.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'd say it's fixable, but it'll take time and some parts.

All the tubes are common types and cheap on Ebay, if we don't have spares in stock, except for the 2A3s. The 2A3 was just an obsolete triode 25 years ago and cheap, but then the tube amp crazies decided it was the perfect high end stereo amp tube. Now I see new/old stock pairs going for up to $300.00 on Ebay. Fortunately, there are perfectly good new Chinese copies going for about $35.00 each on Ebay too; which would work fine in this application.

Here is the place to get some tubes. Ebay. Personally, I would clean it up and inspect after the cleaning. Check for dry connections that crumble by the touch of your hand. Locate the tubes you need no ebay. This puppy will take more than a weekend to do...no doubt. Keep on going back to our forum for any other responses and ideas on how to handle this piece of history.

[M. Sarsfield]

A transformer is manly two coils of wire wound closely together to step or step down the voltage. In this case, they take the 120 VAC and drop it down to something like 12V and then a rectifier probably converts the power from AC to DC. Capacitors are the main culprit, because of their lack of integrity over time. I didn't notice any discoloration on any of the caps in these boxes, but that doesn't indicate their poor condition. Something as simple as a diode could fry and that would stop everything in its tracks.

In general, tube equipment is pretty robust and tubes are easy to replace. I had an old Heathkit HW-101 tube transceiver that looked almost as crusty and dusty as these things. I cleaned it up as best as possible and the bugger still worked - got over 100 Watts output on some bands. There are enough tubes between the two amplifiers that we can get one of them working and the replacmeent tubes for the amps are very cheap.

I told Rick that the worst we can do is nothing at all and the second worst thing we can do is fire it up and fry something. Then, we resort to modern technology to pipe music, noise, voice, and alarms over the reproducers.

[M. Sarsfield]

Here is the place to get some tubes. Ebay. Personally, I would clean it up and inspect after the cleaning. Check for dry connections that crumble by the touch of your hand. Locate the tubes you need no ebay. This puppy will take more than a weekend to do...no doubt. Keep on going back to our forum for any other responses and ideas on how to handle this piece of history.

I heard some wires crackle a little when I opened up some of the trays, but that is due to the cloth and asbestos insulation. I'll definitely feel around and make sure nothing crumbles. The worst that would happen is it would short to ground and blow a fuse. The control panel has a lot of fuses built into it.

My first step is to bring some clorox wet wipes and wipe everything down. Getting rid of the filth is half the battle.

I found a few tube suppliers that have 2A3 tubes ranging from $25 - $90, depending on the maker and if it's new or used. The bottom amp has two already installed. So, i should be able to swap tubes between the amps and get one working - gotta love redundancy.

[M. Sarsfield]

I dicovered that I copied the part numbers down incorrectly for Sig. Gen. 1, but you saw how much filth is crusted onto the ciruit boards. I got a reply from Vacuum Tubes Inc regarding their pricing... :p

"The VR75-30 is a type 0A3. Also, I suspect the other types are 6SL7GT and 6ZY5G
0A3 - $5 each
6SL7GT - $7.50 each
6ZY5G - $5.50
S+H is $6.75

Jim Cross - Vacuum Tubes, Inc. - phone/fax 407-481-9994 http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com Check us out for new, used, audio, antique, and collectible types.
Vacuum Tubes, Inc.
1080 Sligh Blvd
Orlando, FL 32806-1029"

[AVGWarhawk]

Your determination is a good thing!!! Keep at it and let me know how it goes. Even with a short to ground if it happens keep a fire extinqhisher handy. That dry dust build up can ruin a whole day.

[M. Sarsfield]

I might try to get back down there this saturday with some cloth rags and water. The dust came off easily when I wet my finger and wiped it over a small spot... (no, I didn't lick it a second time). I also need to bring some goof off to get the gray paint off the front of the panels.

A friend of mine sent an email with the photos to his uncle whom worked on comm. devices in the Army in the late '40's. He's also an active amateur radio operator. Hopefully, he'll tell us what to test and look for before we add power.

[shoot-kill-win]

Yea, I really hate the fact that they went in and painted everything grey, it runined alot of stuff when it comes to fixing things because alot of numbers and words have been completely covered up. If I was there, I would be helping you out Sarsfield, and I wish I could be there.

[AVGWarhawk]

We are all in the same boat, sort of speaking. The paint is as thick as thieves on the Torsk. Most parts as much as 6 layers thick. Most time you will find a slight rap with a screwdriver will send the paint flying. Occasionally we get paint stripper involved depending on the part. Remember also, you are attemting to restore and some parts you can just clean up only, others you can make look brand new. That was something I had to get out of my head...I was attempting to make it all look brand new. Some pieces do not lend themselves to that so I clean them up as best I can. :up:


Oh, rags, I went through my closet and took out shirts I just do not wear anymore. I have two large 55 gallon bags of shirts that are being donated to the Torsk rag collection!!!!! Check your closets out for old clothing that would be suitable for cleaning. Small actions like that help out quite a bit.

[shoot-kill-win]

[quote=AVGWarhawk]Remember also, you are attemting to restore and some parts you can just clean up only, others you can make look brand new. That was something I had to get out of my head...I was attempting to make it all look brand new. Some pieces do not lend themselves to that so I clean them up as best I can. :up:

Yeah when I went in to polish the tubes in the summer, I would put one layer of polisher on and clean it up, and then another layer of dirt would pop up.

[M. Sarsfield]

I have to remember to bring a hack saw to remove a bent bolt that is holding on the collision alarm housing. Talk about paint. The nut has been glued onto the end of the bolt.

I have a whole bag of nice cloth rags that I'll bring with me. I can get the inside of the electronic equipment looking pretty good. Especially the vacuum tubes, since they are glass. I should bring a tooth brush, too, to loosen up most of the dirt.

[shoot-kill-win]

I have to remember to bring a hack saw to remove a bent bolt that is holding on the collision alarm housing. Talk about paint. The nut has been glued onto the end of the bolt.

I have a whole bag of nice cloth rags that I'll bring with me. I can get the inside of the electronic equipment looking pretty good. Especially the vacuum tubes, since they are glass. I should bring a tooth brush, too, to loosen up most of the dirt.

Yea, it's stuff like that, that makes it harder for us to improve the Batfish. I know for sure in the engine room they painted over the cover of the engines, I personally think we should take off the cover and display the engine's internals. We also need to do a general cleanup of all below deck space, such as the battery compartments the pump room, the motor room, the space below the engine rooms , and probably the freezer in the galley (the open space is pretty clean in it.

[X15]

Hi folks, I'm a volunteer with the USS Hornet museum in Alameda, CA, as well as on a ex-Navy Diesel Electric Yard Tug. I've decided to re-install SH3 and am about to get SH4, so I've been reading the forums and happened across this one.

Just a note on the BK destructor switch, the switch detonates a small charge in the IFF cabinet, see: http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/part2.htm#pg12

Good luck on your project!

[AVGWarhawk]

The following are pictures of the Batfish's 1MC. Noted at the bottom is a list of tubes and such that are needed to power it up. Does anyone know were these tubes can be purchase, bartered? Is it even recommended that an attempt is tried?

http://www.352nd-mlha.com/Batfish%201MC/index.html

Chris, this link needs a warning "pictures are graphic!"

I think that if Batfish has some local lightening masters to work on this, that's fine. But it takes a team and it takes time. And determination. I remember the long faces and sad notes when our first test ended up being one step forward 1.5 backwards.

And the Batfish boyz need to sit down to decide whether or not restoring this equipment is a priority for them. There are good ways to fake a 1MC if you want to. I remember reading that they had some serious restoration issues and remember that they had a work weekend at some point also.

Batfish was our dear departed Mr. Joe's boat, so it's great to help them if we have the opportunity to do so.

These photographs are a great reminder to me of how valuable the skills and determination of our crew is. It's no mean feat.

Latest post on the Torsk site. Our crew will help were we can . I forgot to mention the work weekends. We hold them twice a year at the Torsk. Crews from other boats will come for two to three days and just simply work on the boat. Last work weekend there was 35+ people who came from all over the country just to clean an old WW2 vessel called the Torsk.

Welcome aboard X15. Any help is appreciated!!!


Back to the paint....there is plenty of it to chip and grind away. What we do is pick one project and finish it. This past weekend Tim and I did nothing but chip and grind away paint on a panel that housed the phone/reostates for the compressors/electrical box and a klaxon that were attached to the panel. Took 5 hours to complete from clean up to bar metal on the brackets and paint. A few of the pieces were brass long since painted over hundreds of times. These we polish up and leave the nice brass as it was supposed to be. This is how Tim and I go about it in the engine rooms.

Tools...attempt to assemble tools that you leave on the boat. Lock them up when not in use. Our aft battery is nothing but tools that is locked when we are not there.

[M. Sarsfield]

Rick plans on turning one of the battery compartments into a work shop and the other into an activity center for groups like the Sea Cadets, Boy Scouts, or JROTC.

He said the same thing about picking one project and running with it.

I joined up with an Antique Radio forum and a lot of guys on there restore 60+ year old radios all of the time. As I expected, they say that the main thing to take care of are the capacitors. I expect the 1MC to be a long-term project. Before she'll ever work, Rick has to restore power to the Switch Board, anyway. So, there's no real temptaion to just turn it on and see what happens.

AVG, let me know if you get any further insight as to how the Torsk rigged the diving alarm contactor to directly activate the H-9 horns.

[M. Sarsfield]

Did you find the Blueprints for the systems?

Rick has a pile of blue prints that I need to look through. One of the sub vets said that there are a lot that are missing. Not having much luck finding any on the internet, either.

I looked at the USS Pampanito wish list and their 1MC seems to be an older system than ours and they aren't having any luck finding prints or manuals for theirs, either.

Mainly, I need the prints to find all of the capacitors to replace them and also to see where the contactor switches would have connected to the back of the box(es) in order to activate the various alarms. If was able to pull all of the equipment out, I'd probably see screw terminals on the backs of the two signal generators with labels for each alarm switch. RCA did a pretty good job labeling the vacuum tube sockets.

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG, let me know if you get any further insight as to how the Torsk rigged the diving alarm contactor to directly activate the H-9 horns.

Done! I'm suspect that the horns were wired new and off a centrally located fuse box. In the aft battery which is the work room we have a bank of batteries that run emergancy lighting if we loose main electrical. There is a fuse box there and possibly this is what runs the horns. Let see who did the work on them and what they did.

[shoot-kill-win]

Yea, there are alot of blueprints for the systems. I looked through them a couple times, and there are a bunch on the same system. I hope you find the ones for the 1mc.

[M. Sarsfield]

AVG,

I found this website listing manuals that the Torsk currently has... http://www.broseker.net/babroseker/archives.htm

Could you ask one of the the Torks's electrical guys if either of the following manuals has schematics and/or operating instructions for the 1940's RCA 1MC stack?

* MS2 Instruction Book, Shipboard Announcing Equipment, Escape Hatch Announcing System, Circuit 31MC for Submarines

* MS9 US Navy Battle Announcing Equipment Type MCG System 1MC and 7MC (This is supposedly on display in the Yeoman's Shack according to this site... http://www.broseker.net/babroseker/books.htm)


Thanks.

[AVGWarhawk]

I can ask Gil Bohanan. He has all of this in the archives. Maybe one day I will actually go look at the archives;). I will not be at the Torsk this Saturday but will be going the following weekend. I will ask Gil then if he is aboard. Looking at the list Bruce has some also.

[M. Sarsfield]

Thanks and there's no huge hurry. I'll be spending saturdays just getting all of the crud off of the equipment. It will be nice just looking at shiny parts, again.

[shoot-kill-win]

Yes, clean parts always look better than dirty parts.