Tribute to Abraham: Eternal Patrol

[Onkel Neal]

I got a PM this morning with bad news. It appears our friend and Subsim member Abraham was "found dead" in his home in Amsterdam.

Subsim members can make donations to Zeeger family here

I'll let the news article fill in the details.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/crown_witness_holleeder_trial.php (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/crown_witness_holleeder_trial.php)

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/woman_following_death_of_crown.php (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/woman_following_death_of_crown.php)

http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/media/1/20071010-abraham.jpg

You will be greatly missed, my friend.

Neal
Subsim

Donations to Zeeger family (http://www.subsim.com/Abraham_memorial.htm)

.

[joea]

Ok, ok I'm really shaking my head here. I hate to ask this are you sure Neal? Is there anyway to confirm this? He was a nice normal guy!!!

[jumpy]

No fking way...

Pardon the ourburst.

Thats for sure, Neal?

The passing of a forum member is bad enough, but murder?

I'm at a loss for the propper words.

[lesrae]

A terrible shame :cry:

[Huskalar]

First of all I have to say that it is very bad news. When I read the news this morning I thought a lot of things, but that mr. Zeegers could be a Subsim member was not one of them. So I'm really surprised about it. Also I would like to say that at this moment the cause of his death is unknown. The first reports about it said that it's probably an overdose of some kind. But given the circumstances it does look suspicious.

[XabbaRus]

You certain its him. Gee I hope not but I guess you wouldn't post if your source wasn't sure.

Explains why he hasn't been here for some time.

See you on the other side.

[Dargo]

Rest in peace my friend.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/AvatarAbrahamFull.jpg

[Linton]

Rest in peace.Perhaps the new Almanac could be dedicated to him?

[Jimbuna]

Murder.....always a senseless act :nope:

RIP Sir

[Onkel Neal]

You certain its him. Gee I hope not but I guess you wouldn't post if your source wasn't sure.

Explains why he hasn't been here for some time.

See you on the other side.

Yeah, pretty sure it's him. I've known he's been a crown witness against that crime boss since last year; we've talked about it and I have a Google News Alert for Holleeder to keep up with the news there. I will send an e-mail to his account, though.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Holy ****. I hope to god you're wrong.

[Drebbel]

I knew him as a friend, and that is how I will remember him.

[Takeda Shingen]

Shocking. Nothing other to say.

[Skybird]

Bon Voyage, Abraham. You left too early.

[ I've known he's been a crown witness against that crime boss since last year;
Crown witness, gangster boss? It speaks for him that he had the courage to walk on that path.

[Camaero]

Bon Voyage, Abraham. You left too early.

[ I've known he's been a crown witness against that crime boss since last year;
Crown witness, gangster boss? It speaks for him that he had the courage to walk on that path.

Indeed. Good on him.

[August]

Farewell my friend.

[TLAM Strike]

A real great Subsimer. He will be missed. :cry:

I agree with Linton the new almanaic should be dedicated too him if its not too late. :yep:

[Skybird]

A respected opponent, a distant friend. Killed my nerves at times, made me smile at times. Certainly one with whom I would have shared a beer. And as we now learned, he had courage - respect!

A tribute for Abraham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsvpZxhx1b0

[Dowly]

That's just horrible. :cry:

Fair winds and may you rest in peace Bram.

[SUBMAN1]

I already miss him. :cry: Rest in Peace my friend.

-S

[geetrue]

Abraham was the only one I knew that could stand toe to toe with Avon Lady in a shoot out, name the subject.

Good-bye Abraham ... sorry you had to go early

[STEED]

I remember having some great WW2 debates with Abraham who won my respect and admiration, I will truly miss Abraham who was to me a great forum member.

R.I.P
Abraham

[StdDev]

... speechless :cry:

[Konovalov]

Back at the forums after a few months shore leave and the first thing I read is this horrible news. I'm in total shock and disbelief. :cry:

My thoughts and prayers are with his family. Abraham was a fantastic guy and a great member of the subsim community and forums. My only regret was that I never had a chance to meet him in person. I'll pray for you mate. I'm sure you are in a much better place. Peace be with you.

[CB..]

ye gawds....that's terrible

[Letum]

I lost for words.

This must be the end of a era for subsim.

Very sad.

[The Avon Lady]

Abraham was the only one I knew that could stand toe to toe with Avon Lady in a shoot out, name the subject.

Good-bye Abraham ... sorry you had to go early
I've just come back from a wedding to find this terrible news. Abraham was a forum friend, as much as that's possible.

As much as we sometimes debated, we more often agreed. Our conversations by PM were always cordial and interesting.

He had a bright, peaceful outlook on life. May he rest in peace and may his family be consoled by who he was.

[HunterICX]

I cant even get out any words for this crime, its just too horrible..


''Rust in vrede'' Abraham.

[Sailor Steve]

I didn't really know him, but still I read a lot of his writing, and find this quite depressing.

[Biggles]

Farewell Abraham. I did not know you, but your death is a loss for the world, I am sure.

[Sharkstooth]

What a horrible loss.
I'm glad I had the pleasure to meet him in Monnickendam.
I remember him fondly.

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.subsim.com/graphics/1__alm13.jpg

[I-25]

What a unfair world :cry: poor abraham. i may not be a 24/7 Subsim poster but Abraham, everybody knew his post's, he'll be sorely missed. My condolences to his family.

[kiwi_2005]

Farewell Abraham.


:nope:

[d@rk51d3]

:cry:

[Enigma]

:cry:

[CCIP]

What a shock, I'm speechless.

Abraham was one of Subsim's most defining characters. This is truly a loss for all of us...

Hard to believe something like this could have happened to him, I mean that's just an amazing mess to be in. By being a witness in something like that, it sounds to me like he really put his life on the line. I truly hope the people that did this are brought to justice.

[CptSimFreak]

:cry:

[Iceman]

Wow...

I had the fortune of becoming a pretty good friend with Abraham and was wondering this last year why he hadn't spoken much with me.We had talked about the Lord and I know for a fact he believed in Jesus and the Resurection and had spoken some of wanting his mom, I think, to know JC.

anyways I know in my heart he would not commit suicide and has been given a white robe and told to rest a while.

Rest in Peace my brother in Christ...see you soon.

Psalms 59

[1] Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me.
[2] Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men.
[3] For, lo, they lie in wait for my soul: the mighty are gathered against me; not for my transgression, nor for my sin, O LORD.
[4] They run and prepare themselves without my fault: awake to help me, and behold.
[5] Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.
[6] They return at evening: they make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.
[7] Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?
[8] But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
[9] Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
[10] The God of my mercy shall prevent me: God shall let me see my desire upon mine enemies.
[11] Slay them not, lest my people forget: scatter them by thy power; and bring them down, O Lord our shield.
[12] For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.
[13] Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah.
[14] And at evening let them return; and let them make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.
[15] Let them wander up and down for meat, and grudge if they be not satisfied.
[16] But I will sing of thy power; yea, I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble.
[17] Unto thee, O my strength, will I sing: for God is my defence, and the God of my mercy.

Reading back on some posts....this was classic as it gets I think...



Abraham
I plan to write a book in 2007.

"Words And Opinions. How to moderate in the times of the internet. A quickguided tour by A. B. Raham"

:D

Skybird
And I'll write an essay, reviewing it :lol:


That will be my second book...

Abraham
How about: "FATAL ATTRACTION - An in-depth study of the diverging and converging opinions of Skybird & Abraham on the Subsim.com forums"
I'll write the book - and plug it shamelessly on the Subsim forums - and you can write the introduction (which should not beat the book in size!).
:D




:)

[The Avon Lady]

Dutch news update (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/mystery_surrounds_holleeder_wi.php).

[Jimbuna]

Four key witnesses dead!! :o

The plot certainly thickens :nope:

[Camaero]

Damn... I do hope they bring that POS mobster to justice. It sure looks like murder to me.

[HunterICX]

Damn... I do hope they bring that POS mobster to justice. It sure looks like murder to me.

beeing dutch myself , and watching this on the new daily about this process

the only thing I hope for,
I dont care if he will be free, or imprisoned...I want to see when he walks out of that door of the court...he get shot in the head by a brave dutchman.
as it seems everyone who oposes Holleeder turns out to be a dead man walking...:nope:

the world is better of without people like holleeder.....

[danlisa]

I had never been directly involved with Abraham on Subsim but I have read many of his posts and he was a very balanced poster/moderator. The likes of which shall be missed here.

Calm Seas & Clear Horizons.

[sonar732]

Fair Seas Abraham and here's to you standing up to them!

[Tchocky]

That's terrible :cry:

[Syxx_Killer]

This is horrible! I'm at a loss for words. I never really got to know Abraham, but the feeling of loss is still there. Rest in peace buddy! :cry:

[Oberon]

I can only echo what others have said, myself and Abe didn't converse that often, but I always recall he had a good sense of humour and yet the strength of mind and soul to speak the truth without wavering, it's what made him such a good mod to have about.
RIP Abraham, calm seas and a following wind.

[Fish]

Yesterday evening a journalist called him a hero, I can only agree.
Fair winds and following seas for you Abraham

[TteFAboB]

R.I.P.

[Sea Demon]

This is terrible. This guy seemed like such good person. I exchanged a few PM's with him some time ago. Sometimes you can tell the real gems out there by the things they write, even if you've never met them in person. In retrospect, I believe this guy was one of these types of people.

RIP.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I bet he's sharing Schnapps with Silent Otto :)

[Bum]

I wondered where he went. I liked this guy, very sorry to see it end like this.

Fair Seas, Abraham.

[mapuc]

It made me so sad when I red this thread. I was so fascinated about his HUGE historical knowledge on the WWII. Until the day I die, I Wil remember how well he guided us round Arnhem and told the story in a way that it felt like we(I did) was back in 1944.

Rest in peace My friend.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

hi Markus,

yes, Abraham was extremely knowledgable and prepared a great tour for us visitors during the 2005 Subsim meeting in Amsterdam. It was a real pleasure.

http://www.subclub.info/wpl/2005_meet/pics.h7.jpg

Crow, Deerhunter, Florin, Neal, Abraham, Horsa, DanD, Doc, Marcus, U-48, Iceman

[Kpt. Lehmann]

It would seem that he died a brave man, preserving civilization.

<Lays wreath on the waves... ~SALUTE!~>

[bookworm_020]

R.I.P.:cry:

[Venatore]

I did not know Abraham, but I am deeply saden by this news, that a Subsim member has passed away.

To Neal Stevens and other Subsim members who knew Abraham; I send my deepest condolences.

:cry:

[Chock]

Can't say I knew him very well, but nevertheless this is very sad and shocking news. Sincere condolences, for what is clearly a very tragic event.

Chock

[Hakahura]

R.I.P Abraham.

[danlisa]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.

[XXi]

Farewell, Abraham :(

[Skybird]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.

I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.

[Camaero]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.

I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.

I agree.

[nikimcbee]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.

I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.


I agree.

What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.

[Seth8530]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.

I agree.
What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.

I never knew him but i also think it would be goood to put him in the subsim almanac.

[hyperion2206]

I didn't know him but from what I've heard he must have been a great chap!
I don't know if there's a special song in the Netherlands that is sung at such occasions, but I do know a song that is sung at Irish-American funerals:


Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.

And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.

And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

[horsa]

Bram Zeegers …. Better know to us all as simply Abraham.

By an accident of fate I probably spent a lot of time with Bram on the Holland Subsim meet in 2005. It wasn’t planned and neither of us particularly sought out the other. I shared his car on the day we visited the Dykes. He asked me to create a new avatar for him and he posed for some shots on a ferry one day. My last lunch in Monnikendam was also spent with him, before he drove me to the airport. You could say I got to know him fairly well. But then again, how much can you really learn about someone in a short snapshot like that. You meet, you discus, you move on. Certainly nothing at the time hinted at the kind of ugly scenario we now see in the Dutch newspapers. Reflecting on that trip there were some clues that Bram might have moved at a high level. He was clearly a remarkably articulate and intelligent man. When asked what he did for a living he made reference to training as a solicitor and spoke of being an “estate agent”. How significant those words seem now.

We shared an interest in history and I took great pleasure in being able to throw a question at him and then just listen to the answer unfold . You learnt to choose your own words carefully because he clearly had the knowledge base to quickly peel away your arguments, albeit in a most respectful and good humoured way.
Its eerie seeing that photograph now.. Aren’t we just a bunch of ordinary folk who share a common interest in naval warfare ? Then you wake up and there is that playful photograph in the context of a world I will never experience or would never want to. Within it all there is a story we can only guess at. Did Bram pay the price for an act of bravery? The pressures he must have been under ? Was it suicide, murder accident ?

What price now to be able to ask Bram some questions ?

Rest in Peace, Bram. I only wish I’d taken more time.

[The Avon Lady]

But then again, how much can you really learn about someone in a short snapshot like that.
What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.

[horsa]

What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.
Indeed. His personality came over clearly in his posts.

One of my favourite shots.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3675/dutchman0023eu0.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dutchman0023eu0.jpg)

[Cooter1966]

Seeing I'm new I didn't know him, but it's good to see he was a well thought of man. Tragic, very tragic. Go with God, Abraham

[mapuc]

What's interesting is that your conclusions and descriptions of him are pretty much what I assumed, based on his posts, private and public, without my ever meeting him in person.
Indeed. His personality came over clearly in his posts.

One of my favourite shots.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3675/dutchman0023eu0.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dutchman0023eu0.jpg)


I remember the last day of my visit in the Netherland. we met at a resturang in Monnickendam and he tried to learn me, how to eat clam. Later on Horsa came.

Markus

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

@ Neal

Is it too late for an entry about Abraham to go into the 2008 Almanac?

It would be a fitting tribute, I think.
I back that idea. I only knew him via the forums, and had a wide diversity of comms with him, but I am still impressed by the courage he showed, and that led to this tragic outcome. One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.

Courage should be recognized and being made known to the public, so: tell the story of the events, Neal, and what he decided to do.

I agree.
What you guys said.
It was an honor to be a forum member with you.
I never knew him but i also think it would be goood to put him in the subsim almanac.
reading the events on the first page and the link of The Avon Lady on the 2nd one i agree with these guy's, i never actualy knew him, but its a tragical thing to loose a fellow subsimmer :cry:

fair winds Abraham, and may that POS mob boss feel the concequences

[Hitman]

Well if I was a protected witness in such a trial I sure would like to see the authorities organizing my *death*, so that everybody forgets about me soon :hmm: Even if a remote chance, I hope such thing could have happened and Abraham is OK and still with us. If he really isn't any longer, then my prayers are with him and his family. You will be missed as a honest and courageous man! :cry:

[porphy]

Terrible and sad news! Being a witness in that kind of trial is, in my opinion, one of the strongest signs of personal integrity, and today it is rare that people have the courage too acctually follow through your sense of moral duty in practice. Whatever happened to you Abraham, I hope many people will remeber you and be inspired, not discouraged.

we will miss you here
R.I.P. Abraham.


Porphy

[fire-fox]

R.I.P and I'd like to back the recuest of Danilsa
:( :: Salute to virtual comrade ::

[Kapitan_Phillips]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4118/abraham2007kr2.jpg

[Stealth Hunter]

Das verdammt Gangster!

I hope they nail this ****ard to the wall and grill him nice 'n hard.

Abraham was truly a good forum member who will be greatly missed. Although I am nobody official, I say this to our friend:

Fair winds and calm seas, may you find out on the blue. The time until your

departure from port was short, but you shall not be forgotten, 'o great one.

Despite differences in the past, I bid you farewell and pray you find the

perfect rest.

I request that a memorial thread be created here on the forum, and that it be made permanent in honour of our fallen comrade.

[ASWnut101]

Man, why is it that whenever I check back in here after a long break, I'm always greeted by some sort of bad news. Now, it's absolutally terrible news... :nope:



Truthfully, I cannot say I knew him very well. I remember seeing some of his posts when I first joined here, but I never really communicated with him. Later on (about last December), I began to wonder why he never checked in much. I did not think too hard on it, though.

I only wish I got to know him better. From what I can remember, he was a smart, nice guy. Now, I'll never get to know him...

It really dosen't hit you that much when you hear about a poor fellow who gets his life cut short by some senseless act. But when you realize that a person who you crossed paths with, be it silently or a full confrontation, is that man, then no matter what your relationship with him, just the fact that you acknowledged the man's presence, his simple existance, will bring a drop in your heart, a cold feeling in your gut, and distant thoughts that race through your head. It certainly did to me, and I'm sure it has to you.

Let it be known that the person who committed this will have his days numbered. He will never escape the fact that what he did can and did echo so far as to bring out an inner rage in someone, somewhere in this world, that will mark his day to have what he did to others happen to him.

Abraham, I may have not known you enought to even have talked to you, but the simple memory of you is now etched in my mind, never to be forgotten. At least now you are on an "eternal voyage" of peace, your mind now at rest, and that you are now in a better place than any of us are.

After hearing of this, I'm going buy a wreath. In two weeks, I should be heading out to deap-sea fish with my girlfriend. I'm going to bring it along, and before we leave for port at the end of the day, I'm going to lay the wreath in the water, in rememberance of you and what you loved.

I must go now, but I only hope that the members here will do something too, in a salute to you.


A very long salute, sir,
-ASWnut

[fatty]

English news is sparse, but at the moment it appears that a drug overdose was the culprit.

[Torpedo Fodder]

My god, this is certanly shocking news. I only interacted with him on a few occasions on the board, but from those encounters he did strike me as a fine, upstanding individual, an assessment confirmed by my discovery of his courageous work as a court witness against a crime lord.

Rest in peace, Abraham.

[ReM]

The official statement is that Bram Zeegers died of a drug overdose, MDMA, a.k.a. as XTC is said to be the culprit. The police say that there is no proof that his death is linked to the Holleeder trial. :o

This is very strange.....death due to a XTC overdose is pretty rare, and Bram Zeegers was not a known drug user. His family asking him not to testify because they feared he would end up dead it has proved profetic.....

Whatever the story, Subsim is minus one KaLeun!

Gute Jagd Abraham!

[Huskalar]

English news is sparse, but at the moment it appears that a drug overdose was the culprit.http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007/10/holleeder_witness_died_of_drug.php

[robbierob2005]

I heard it on the news this morning that it was a XTC overdose that killed him. Anyway. RIP Abraham.

[jumpy]

Hmm, despite that latest report stating a drug overdose, I find it awfully coincidental that our Abraham is now on the list along with other key witnesses who are no longer able to speak out. I know stranger things have happened, but still, it seems very suspect to me.

Also, can we have the 'good rating' stars removed from this thread? Somehow it doesn't seem appropriate under the circumstances of this obituary, well meaning or otherwise :confused:

[Kapitan]

Even though we had a few clashes about spelling and punctuation, rest in peace abraham.

[Skybird]

If he was not forced to take that XTC overdose, it appears to me as an understandable explanation that the stress and the fear (that even when he did not admit it must have travelled with him in the background of his head) maybe was so intense that he sought relief this way. That he was a regular drug consumer is something I cannot get together with my internet-dependant impression of him.

However, the timing, and the "coincidence", if it was that, of so many witnesses already killed, I see as highly suspicious. and even if he used drugs regularly or only to seek relief by suicide (XTC for that purpose?) - it remains the fact that he showed courage to confront a public enemy and accepting the risk.

And that is what counts.

[Huskalar]

Dutch police actually said yesterday that not only MDMA was found, but also high amounts of alcohol. And they also said that it was the combination of both that proved to be fatal. I'm a bit surpised that this isn't mentioned in both English articles I found about it, but it is mentioned in all Dutch articles I have read.

[NeonSamurai]

I am shocked by what has happened, and am much saddened by the loss. My sincere condolences to his family. I hope those responsible are brought to justice.

I did not know him well on a personal level. But I do remember him very favorably, he always seemed to be a stand up, intelligent man, with strong convictions. His posts were always well thought out and worth reading. Obviously his willingness to testify given the danger shows the type of character he possessed, and the type of man he was.

He will be missed

[geetrue]

According to this threads reports from news articles overseas, plus a small selection of comments ... this is what we have so far


Dutch police actually said yesterday that not only MDMA was found, but also high amounts of alcohol


The official statement is that Bram Zeegers died of a drug overdose, MDMA, a.k.a. as XTC is said to be the culprit.


From what I can remember, he was a smart, nice guy. Now, I'll never get to know him...


Being a witness in that kind of trial is, in my opinion, one of the strongest signs of personal integrity, and today it is rare that people have the courage too acctually follow through your sense of moral duty in practice.

One article also sais something like his family urging him to get out of it, what he obviously rejected, and that he remained calm although knowing that he was in danger.



Four key witnesses dead!! :o

The plot certainly thickens


We know alcohol and a drug referred to as XTC was found in Bram's body after he was found dead in the shower.

We know he was 58 years old with lots of reasons to live.

We know that he had been representing a man that was being blackmailed and that that man was murdered.

We know that he was a witness against a local crime lord that has been suspected in other murders and was considered to be the person that was black mailing his client.

We know, from some personally, that he was considered to be an intelligent gentleman.

Leads me to suspect foul play ... but ...

How did the alcohol get into his system?

How did the drugs get into his system?

How did he get into the shower?

Was he alone? Don't people that do this type of drug do it with others for sexual reasons or just companionship?

Instead of flowers perhaps we owe a brother an attempt to get at the truth instead of just seeing the case written off as a drug overdoze or do I watch too much CSI.

Are there any brusing of his body parts, could there be a way to sneak the drug into food and he took it accidently?

Will the Dutch police check for dna samples?

Better yet ... how about a miracle of someone coming forward that saw something.

I'll let it rest ... but

[Jimbuna]

The circumstances certainly appear to be as suspicious as anything I have ever read or come across :hmm:

[RickC Sniper]

A sad and tragic loss.



I have no desire to play detective.

[Takeda Shingen]

A sad and tragic loss.



I have no desire to play detective.

Agreed.

[Fish]

A sad and tragic loss.



I have no desire to play detective.

Right, let us remember him as WE know him.

[Romulus]

I seldom post here, but such a death is always a tragedy,by all accounts he was a very well respected member ofthe Subsim community......

Why not name this forum after him, if it's too late for the Almanac?

[Skybird]

I seldom post here, but such a death is always a tragedy,by all accounts he was a very well respected member ofthe Subsim community......

Why not name this forum after him, if it's too late for the Almanac?
Because we can safely assume that in a place with 17000+ members there are many other courageous people as well, even if they remain a much lower profile than Abraham did - but we only have so many forums, but not more. ;) :D

I have the impression of Abraham that he wouldn't have liked it. A mind as light and open to the world as his should not be enforced into heavy stone of monuments.

"Why can angels fly? Because they take themselves easy!"

[Onkel Neal]

A sad and tragic loss.



I have no desire to play detective.

Right, let us remember him as WE know him.

Well said. I wish he was still here, it would be nice to hear from him.

[Torplexed]

Audieu Abraham. For some reason the poem from the frontspiece of Iron Coffins comes to mind.:cry: Must be the hat.

http://www.neptoonsorbit.com/AbrahamTribute.jpg

[Flick]

R.I.P. Abraham

[Perseus]

Didn't know him. Do know some people around him, though. And while it is always wise never to speak ill of the dead, he should have known better than to further his acquintance with certain people in the Amsterdam real estate underworld.

Although unrelated to his death, apparently, it isn't wise to keep meeting certain people when others have warned you many a times not to. At one point he went too deep, too far, and before he knew it, like so many he found that he was stuck in the mud. And so be became a crown witness.

He died while taking a warm bath, having taken MDMA and drinking wine. Alcohol makes blood move faster, and being submerged in warm water only makes the blood flow even fast as it moves the veins close to the skin more.

The exact cause of death is still not clear - MDMA overdose due to the MDMA arriving approximately twice as fast in the brain due to circumstances described above - or from drowning after passing out. No one knows. The woman who called the police is still in custody, on unclear grounds.

[Goose_green]

I'm not a regular here but I drift in now and then, never new Abraham but it's a real tragic loss to hear of this horrible news:cry: Such a tragic way to go, I hope the person responsible is brought to justice:nope:

RIP Abraham

[Kongo Otto]

A guy who has the guts to stand against a major Mobster like Holleeder,always earns my respect. RIP Abraham.

btw.
isn´t Holleeder the major XTC dealer in the Netherlands.Just a simple thought.
I hope this bastard gets what he deserves,but he was sentenced to a 12 year term for the 1983 kidnapping of Freddie Heineken, and he was just 5 years in jail.
NL justice system sucks.

[Fish]

btw.
isn´t Holleeder the major XTC dealer in the Netherlands.

.
This is Willem Holleder.

Grenade Attack on Courthouse Fails to Halt ‘Trial of the Century’
2 April 2007

Two grenades were fired at 3.00 yesterday morning at the high-security courthouse in Amsterdam-Osdorp, nicknamed ‘the Bunker’. No-one was hurt, but considerable damage was caused.(cont.)

The assumption is that the attack was intended to delay the trial of Willem Holleder, a major figure in the Amsterdam criminal world, who was sentenced to 11 years imprisonment in 1987 for his part in the abduction of beer baron Freddy Heineken. The trial was transferred to the Palace of Justice in the Parnassusweg, Amsterdam, and began yesterday afternoon behind closed doors. Holleeder is accused of extortion, assault and membership of criminal organisations. An investigation is also currently looking into Holleeder’s possible connection with a number of liquidations on the criminal scene in the last few years. Prominent criminal lawyer, Bram Moskowitz, who has represented Holleeder’s interests for more than 20 years, has withdrawn from the defence.

http://www.thehagueonline.com/article_read.php?article_id=4769&online=1&archive=0&category=

[caspofungin]

just checked in after a few days away -- i'm speechless. rip, abraham, i'm sorry i never met you in the flesh.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Ich hatt einen kameraden. Wir alles had ein kamerad."The ships destory us above, and ensnare us beneath. We arise, we lie down, we move in the belly of Death." Rudyard Kipling. Personaly I did not know Abraham, but most of us here did. We must remember what he was, not what he is. Rest in Peace Abraham. Abraham we hardly knew ye.

[hachiman]

Sorry to hear this sad sad news.
Abraham will always be on eternal patrol!! :cry:

[Ishmael]

I just read through this entire thread. WOW! What a shock. My condolences go out to Abe's family. But it also sounds suspicious to me. Is there anything in the stories to suggest a self-induced OD? I, too, find it suspicious that everyone who gets close to this mob boss winds up dead. Are there any reports on his girlfriend's story and what might have happened? I wonder about the scenario being painted of an accidental self-induced overdose or did person or persons unknown "help" him on his way.

I find it significant that everyone who testifies against this mobster guy winds up dead. I suspect foul play. It makes me see the justice of the Huron in wanting this mobster burned alive in our council fires.

[JSLTIGER]

RIP Abraham...

[SteminDemon13]

Rest in peace Abraham

[U-104]

RIP Abraham
:cry::cry::cry::cry:

[robbierob2005]

There is an article about this in the "Telegraaf".
The Telegraaf is a dutch newspaper so I'm sorry it's in dutch.
The article is about that the members of Subsim miss him very much.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/article72935251.ece?cid=rss

http://www.bright.nl/bezoekers-subsim-com-betreuren-dood-holleeder-getuige

[The Avon Lady]

There is an article about this in the "Telegraaf".
The Telegraaf is a dutch newspaper so I'm sorry it's in dutch.
The article is about that the members of Subsim miss him very much.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/article72935251.ece?cid=rss
Now that was unexpected.

[Flying Dutchman]

Skippers don't die... they just sail away

[Morts]

R.I.P

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Hello,

I am the eighteen year old daughter of Abraham Zeegers..:cry:

I've never been on this site before so I don't know how it really works..

But I would like to thank everybody for their kind words..

I am sure that my father would appreciate this..


Lydia-Tamar Zeegers

[SantaX]

Hi all, I noticed this link on the big Dutch weblog Geenstijl.nl

I am a Dutchie and since you all seem to care so much for this fellow, I just wanted to post here about the facts and suspicions.

Bram was found dead, a woman was with him. This woman is the girlfriend from another Amsterdam based criminal. He is arrested also, but not linked to this case. He was arrested for involvement with drugsdealing. The woman herself still is in custody.
I read on this site that xtc was the killer. In the media here, they say he OD on coke.

Holleeder is being charged with (sorry don't know the English word) pressuring people into giving him money. 4 or 5 of the witnesses in his trial are dead by now.
Even so, Holleeder has gained somewhat of a cult-status. He didn't harm the normal people and other criminals who deal with him have the tendency to die... Most of them not natural.

Bram was a lawyer and it is now being said he had made statements to the police not only about Holleeder, but also other topcriminals. A brave thing to do.

Just wanted to inform you all about what we know so far. As it is given attention by the Dutch media.

Also my condoleances to you all.

Edit:

Lydia-Tamar, heel veel sterkte met dit verlies. Mijn moeder overleed toen ik 21 was, gelukkig zonder de media aandacht die jij moet doorstaan.
Wees trots op je pa, niet veel mensen hebben het lef te getuigen tegen Holleeder. Echt heel veel sterkte.

[Iceman]

Hello,

I am the eighteen year old daughter of Abraham Zeegers..:cry:

I've never been on this site before so I don't know how it really works..

But I would like to thank everybody for their kind words..

I am sure that my father would appreciate this..


Lydia-Tamar Zeegers

Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you and your family. We are truly sorry for your loss and your father will be greatly missed here. There are no words to describe the sorrow we feel for this. Again please personal message myself or Neal Stevens the site owner here with any way we may help you and your family.

We are all family here and and Abraham was a big part of it. It would honor us greatly if you would come by here and let us know how you and yours are doing from time to time even if you are not a submarine enthusiast like we all are here, but I now consider you a daughter of mine by way of the brotherhood we all feel here towards one an other.

[jumpy]

^^
Well said that man.

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Hello,

I am the eighteen year old daughter of Abraham Zeegers..:cry:

I've never been on this site before so I don't know how it really works..

But I would like to thank everybody for their kind words..

I am sure that my father would appreciate this..


Lydia-Tamar Zeegers

Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you and your family. We are truly sorry for your loss and your father will be greatly missed here. There are no words to describe the sorrow we feel for this. Again please personal message myself or Neal Stevens the site owner here with any way we may help you and your family.

We are all family here and and Abraham was a big part of it. It would honor us greatly if you would come by here and let us know how you and yours are doing from time to time even if you are not a submarine enthusiast like we all are here, but I now consider you a daughter of mine by way of the brotherhood we all feel here towards one an other.

Wauw that is very kind.. :oops:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Hi all, I noticed this link on the big Dutch weblog Geenstijl.nl

I am a Dutchie and since you all seem to care so much for this fellow, I just wanted to post here about the facts and suspicions.

Bram was found dead, a woman was with him. This woman is the girlfriend from another Amsterdam based criminal. He is arrested also, but not linked to this case. He was arrested for involvement with drugsdealing. The woman herself still is in custody.
I read on this site that xtc was the killer. In the media here, they say he OD on coke.

Holleeder is being charged with (sorry don't know the English word) pressuring people into giving him money. 4 or 5 of the witnesses in his trial are dead by now.
Even so, Holleeder has gained somewhat of a cult-status. He didn't harm the normal people and other criminals who deal with him have the tendency to die... Most of them not natural.

Bram was a lawyer and it is now being said he had made statements to the police not only about Holleeder, but also other topcriminals. A brave thing to do.

Just wanted to inform you all about what we know so far. As it is given attention by the Dutch media.

Also my condoleances to you all.

Edit:

Lydia-Tamar, heel veel sterkte met dit verlies. Mijn moeder overleed toen ik 21 was, gelukkig zonder de media aandacht die jij moet doorstaan.
Wees trots op je pa, niet veel mensen hebben het lef te getuigen tegen Holleeder. Echt heel veel sterkte.


dankjewel het is ook heel erg vreselijk.. Mijn leven op dit moment is ook niet compleet meer:cry:

[swieten87]

Hi,

I am also from Holland. We are all shocked about the death of Abraham "Bram" Zeegers. For those who would like to visit a website where you can read a webpage about Abraham, visit http://www.holleeder.info/0046.Bram%20Zeegers.html. Sorry it is written in Dutch but ask someone who speaks the language and yoy will learn more about him.

[I-25]

Well said indeed Iceman:up:

if theres anything we can do to help just let us know.
again my deepest condolences.

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Abraham was the only one I knew that could stand toe to toe with Avon Lady in a shoot out, name the subject.

Good-bye Abraham ... sorry you had to go early
I've just come back from a wedding to find this terrible news. Abraham was a forum friend, as much as that's possible.

As much as we sometimes debated, we more often agreed. Our conversations by PM were always cordial and interesting.

He had a bright, peaceful outlook on life. May he rest in peace and may his family be consoled by who he was.


Thank you very much.. Im the daughter of Abraham / Bram Zeegers..
I've never been on this site before and i have know idea how this works..
My father has told me about you.. And also to my mother.. Because my mother is also jewish.. And my father told me that you are a strong woman from Israel..
I Miss Him Very Much.. He means the world to me and now my life is incomplete..:cry:
And i think that my father would appreciate all the kinds words that the people are saying about him.. And that i response on the messages ( if you know what i mean.. I am good in english but nog very good ;) But i am trying )

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

A sad and tragic loss.



I have no desire to play detective.

Right, let us remember him as WE know him.

Well said. I wish he was still here, it would be nice to hear from him.

Yes.. That is my wish too.. I want him to come back and never go away..:cry:

I want to thank everybody for their kind words about my father.. I am sure that he would apprecciate this.. And if he can read from heaven.. Then i bet that he has a big smile on his face......:cry:

[Onkel Neal]

Hello Lydia,

I really enjoyed meeting your father and spending a little time with him at the 2005 Subsim meeting in Monnickendam. He had a great tour prepared for us and was an excellent host. It was my first time in Netherlands and I left with a very good impression, thanks in part to Abraham. Over the last three years I communicated with him a great deal by e-mail and the forums, where he was a moderator. I really miss him, and I know the Subsim community will always be a man short in our meetings, discussions, and voyages from now.

Neal
Subsim

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Well said indeed Iceman:up:

if theres anything we can do to help just let us know.
again my deepest condolences.

:huh:
You are ALL very kind !! One big family.. ;):rotfl:

Thanks for all your support.. It gives me a good feeling that he was so appreciated..

Hmmm.. Just want the man who did this, get caught and get a lifetime jail:dead: ( if i am saying that right :oops: )

[bradclark1]

Yeah. You said it right. I had a good time arguing with your father now and then.:) If we can do anything at all for you please let us know.

[I-25]

Well said indeed Iceman:up:

if theres anything we can do to help just let us know.
again my deepest condolences.
:huh:
You are ALL very kind !! One big family.. ;):rotfl:


One big family just like a U Boot crew!:up:

[_Seth_]

May you rest in peace, dear shipmate....:cry:

Break, break, break,
On thy cold gray stones, O sea!
And I would that my tongue could utter
The thoughts that arise in me.

O, well for the fisherman's boy,
That he shouts with his sister at play!
O, well for the sailor lad,
That he sings in his boat on the bay!

And the stately ships go on
To their haven under the hill;
But O for the touch of a vanished hand,
And the sound of a voice that is still!

Break, break, break,
At the foot of thy crags, O sea!
But the tender grace of a day that is dead
Will never come back to me.

-- Alfred, Lord Tennyson (http://www.cs.rice.edu/%7Essiyer/minstrels/index_poet_T.html#Tennyson)

[d@rk51d3]

Welcome to the family. :yep:



-edit- ummmm, did that sound a bit too freaky?:oops:

[The Avon Lady]

My father has told me about you.. And also to my mother.. Because my mother is also jewish..
Yes, your father told me about that, too, which makes you Jewish, of course.
And my father told me that you are a strong woman from Israel..
:shifty: Must be all those years of lifitng the grocery bags. :shifty:

:D

[Sixpack]

My take......

Yesterday I had a pretty bad day. I went to the office, and I quickly read the headlines like I do every day. There was the article with subject line "Gamers miss Bram Zeegers". Then I read subsim.com.... HUH ?!

Wait a freakin' moment........Bram.........Abraham !! :o

I then went on to dig in Google for as much information as possible on Bram. I think I have been busy with that for 5 hours. Utterly amazed.

I have to explain I -unlike many- don't follow this "Holleeder" case. I know it's there but I didnt feel like spending my good time on it. Probably turning out another high expectations criminal case leading to injustice, thus not contributing to a better Holland.

Had I done that, I had known about Bram's involvement as a key witness already early this year !

And I could easily have gotten in contact with him, having his phone number and email adress.

You see, back in 2005 around the Subsim meet, he and I exchanged a couple of emails, and we were close to meeting. I didnt however attend the Subsim meet for personal reasons, but to this day regret it.

In that time he had just become involved as a witness, or so I gathered yesterday.

It appeared I still have his sunny emails in my hotmail inbox and reread them. He also told me then about his 16Y old daughter having an Israeli mother, and plenty more. However, nothing related to his involvement in this crime case.

Late december 2005 he sent me an email wishing me and my family a happy 2006 and proposed again we'd meet...

I wished him well but never replied to the meeting part.

[sigh].....Wow...

Ofcourse now I wonder if we had met...

Had he told me sooner or later about the situation he was in ?

What could I have done for him to somewhat lighten his burden and pain ? How much and exactly would that have had impact on me ?

But the drugs ? I cant imagine Bram as a drugs user. But then again, we can all fake on the net, cant we ? But still I cant or rather dont want to think of Bram being that different from how we all knew him here: An extremely intelligent and friendly guy, with a positive-christian outlook on life.

Questions...questions...

Weird, but only now I feel he was perhaps reaching out to me and I have let this man down :cry:

Bram, no way I can help you now (only by listening a bit I figure and discuss our mutual interests as in hobbies/recreational stuff that is), but I will remember you with fondness for the virtual and potentially real life friend of mine you could have been. I wish your family a lot of strength coping with the awefully great loss.

.

[Morts]

lydia im truely sorry for your loss

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Yeah. You said it right. I had a good time arguing with your father now and then.:) If we can do anything at all for you please let us know.


My father was always good in arguing :lol:

Thank you..:cry:

[Skybird]

I would like to hear what Abraham would say if he would know that his daughter has followed his trail into this forum! Knowing his always present sense of humour, without doubt it would be a comment that would have made us smile.

@ Lydia,
trust in time.

Sounds shallow, but it's true. Your father and me had some hard struggles in the forum and more often in private mails - but even more peaceful and humorous conversations, and no matter what it was, we always respected each other. And no matter how angry I sometimes may have been (he really had the ability to let me go up the walls sometimes :D ) - he most often managed to let it end with a smile on my face. In other words: he left a heavy impression in my memory. Best wishings for you.

[horsa]

This is an opportunity I hadn't expected , Lydia. May I offer my personal condolences to you and your family.

The news has been truly shocking and unexpected.

Bram was a remarkable man ..... even more remarkable than I could have guessed as it turns out.

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

I would like to hear what Abraham would say if he would know that his daughter has followed his trail into this forum! Knowing his always present sense of humour, without doubt it would be a comment that would have made us smile.

@ Lydia,
trust in time.

Sounds shallow, but it's true. Your father and me had some hard struggles in the forum and more often in private mails - but even more peaceful and humorous conversations, and no matter what it was, we always respected each other. And no matter how angry I sometimes may have been (he really had the ability to let me go up the walls sometimes :D ) - he most often managed to let it end with a smile on my face. In other words: he left a heavy impression in my memory. Best wishings for you.

Hahaha, :D You are right.. I think he is very proud of me that I am doing this:oops:

Thank you very much.. My father was always very good in conversations :smug: :arrgh!:
And it gives me a good feeling that he left a good impression here..:cry:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

lydia im truely sorry for your loss

Thank you..

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

This is an opportunity I hadn't expected , Lydia. May I offer my personal condolences to you and your family.

The news has been truly shocking and unexpected.

Bram was a remarkable man ..... even more remarkable than I could have guessed as it turns out.



That are very kind words.. Thank you very very much!! I am so happy that everybody is zo positive about him..

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

My take......

Yesterday I had a pretty bad day. I went to the office, and I quickly read the headlines like I do every day. There was the article with subject line "Gamers miss Bram Zeegers". Then I read subsim.com.... HUH ?!

Wait a freakin' moment........Bram.........Abraham !! :o

I then went on to dig in Google for as much information as possible on Bram. I think I have been busy with that for 5 hours. Utterly amazed.

I have to explain I -unlike many- don't follow this "Holleeder" case. I know it's there but I didnt feel like spending my good time on it. Probably turning out another high expectations criminal case leading to injustice, thus not contributing to a better Holland.

Had I done that, I had known about Bram's involvement as a key witness already early this year !

And I could easily have gotten in contact with him, having his phone number and email adress.

You see, back in 2005 around the Subsim meet, he and I exchanged a couple of emails, and we were close to meeting. I didnt however attend the Subsim meet for personal reasons, but to this day regret it.

In that time he had just become involved as a witness, or so I gathered yesterday.

It appeared I still have his sunny emails in my hotmail inbox and reread them. He also told me then about his 16Y old daughter having an Israeli mother, and plenty more. However, nothing related to his involvement in this crime case.

Late december 2005 he sent me an email wishing me and my family a happy 2006 and proposed again we'd meet...

I wished him well but never replied to the meeting part.

[sigh].....Wow...

Ofcourse now I wonder if we had met...

Had he told me sooner or later about the situation he was in ?

What could I have done for him to somewhat lighten his burden and pain ? How much and exactly would that have had impact on me ?

But the drugs ? I cant imagine Bram as a drugs user. But then again, we can all fake on the net, cant we ? But still I cant or rather dont want to think of Bram being that different from how we all knew him here: An extremely intelligent and friendly guy, with a positive-christian outlook on life.

Questions...questions...

Weird, but only now I feel he was perhaps reaching out to me and I have let this man down :cry:

Bram, no way I can help you now (only by listening a bit I figure and discuss our mutual interests as in hobbies/recreational stuff that is), but I will remember you with fondness for the virtual and potentially real life friend of mine you could have been. I wish your family a lot of strength coping with the awefully great loss.

.


Wauw.. That gives me a great feeling knowing that he told about my mother and me.. :oops:
Everybody here is so kind..
And you are saying that right.. My father and drugs? No.. Never..

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

My father has told me about you.. And also to my mother.. Because my mother is also jewish..
Yes, your father told me about that, too, which makes you Jewish, of course.
And my father told me that you are a strong woman from Israel..
:shifty: Must be all those years of lifitng the grocery bags. :shifty:

:D

:lol:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Welcome to the family. :yep:



-edit- ummmm, did that sound a bit too freaky?:oops:


Haha thank you ! :)
I am delighted !

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Hello Lydia,

I really enjoyed meeting your father and spending a little time with him at the 2005 Subsim meeting in Monnickendam. He had a great tour prepared for us and was an excellent host. It was my first time in Netherlands and I left with a very good impression, thanks in part to Abraham. Over the last three years I communicated with him a great deal by e-mail and the forums, where he was a moderator. I really miss him, and I know the Subsim community will always be a man short in our meetings, discussions, and voyages from now.

Neal
Subsim

Yes he told me about that meeting he was very excited and he enjoyed it also.( if i am seeying that right :oops: )
He told me so much about subsim ! He always was very positive about it.
He also 'pushed' my mom to become a member of this and also my brother!:lol:
I miss him too.. :cry:
He did not deserve this.. But its not my duty to say that..:oops:

And if he is looking with me then i know he has a smile on his face.. Because you are all very kind!:)
Thank you very much for your support

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

I just read through this entire thread. WOW! What a shock. My condolences go out to Abe's family. But it also sounds suspicious to me. Is there anything in the stories to suggest a self-induced OD? I, too, find it suspicious that everyone who gets close to this mob boss winds up dead. Are there any reports on his girlfriend's story and what might have happened? I wonder about the scenario being painted of an accidental self-induced overdose or did person or persons unknown "help" him on his way.

I find it significant that everyone who testifies against this mobster guy winds up dead. I suspect foul play. It makes me see the justice of the Huron in wanting this mobster burned alive in our council fires.

Thank you:cry:

[Fish]

This was written in a blog on a discussion forum in the Netherlands.

Collega Robert en ik zijn toen direct het forum ingedoken en hebben alle 3300 berichten nagelopen op relevantie voor de Zaak Holleeder. De verrassing was niet zo groot toen dat niet zo bleek te zijn. Wel kwam er een beeld naar voren van een erudiete, intelligente, humoristische, joviale en in zijn rol als forummoderator (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=280626#post280626), soms strenge man die discussiert op het scherpst van de snede.

Translation:


The writer (Journalist Johan Boef) and his colleague together made a investigation on the 3300 posts (from Abraham) on relevance of the Holleeder case.
It was no surprise there was none. We became a image of a man who is erudite, intelligent, humoristic, jovial and in his role of forummoderator, a sometimes strict man who discussed at the edge of a knife.
http://johanboef.blogvandaag.nl/page/log/32169/Forummoderator%20Bram%20Zeegers/

[The Avon Lady]

Translation:


The writer (Journalist Johan Boef) and his colleague together made a investigation on the 3300 posts (from Abraham) on relevance of the Holleeder case.
It was no surprise there was none. We became a image of a man who is erudite, intelligent, humoristic, jovial and in his role of forummoderator, a sometimes strict man who discussed at the edge of a knife.
http://johanboef.blogvandaag.nl/page/log/32169/Forummoderator%20Bram%20Zeegers/
I recall from my PMs with Abraham that he mentioned something about his legal career and something very vague about unpleasant dealings which were a distraction to him from a more tranquil life. Something to that effect.

But it was really vague. Never a hint of what it actually was nor did I suspect anything so dramatic. Only in hindsight do I now comprehend what it was about.

[cappy70]

Sad to hear when these things happens och mina kondelanser till familjen.
(Didn't know how to say it good in English so I said it in Swedish).

[Pioneer]

Question for his daughter...if I may.

Lydia. Most of the people here may never have met or spoken to your father, but they are shocked by his departure. Your and your family have my condolences. From such a distance sending flowers may not be appropiate, perhaps there was a charity your father believed in that members might be able to make a donation to in his name.

Respectfully, could one of the Dutch members translate that for me. Many thanks.

[Sixpack]

Lydia,

I am sure you understand what Pioneer very kindly said here, since you write in English yourself, but anyway just in case:

Vrij vertaald:
Pioneer is net als de anderen geschokt door wat gebeurd is met je vader, hij condoleert jou en alle familie van Bram en zegt dat bloemen sturen misschien niet helemaal gepast is, met name vanwege de afstand. Hij zou toch graag iets te willen doen en vraagt of jouw vader misschien betrokken was bij een of ander goed doel (sorry als dit dubbelzinnig klinkt trouwens). Het lijkt Pioneer een goed idee dat de subsim.com leden ter ere van hem wat geld inzamelen en aan dat doel overmaken (o.v.v. Ter nagedachtenis van Bram Zeegers, neem ik dan aan)

Zou je hierover eens willen nadenken, bespreken met je familie en hier willen reageren alsjeblieft ?

Heel veel sterkte gewenst. Maak iets moois van je leven. You're worth it ;)

Question for his daughter...if I may.

Lydia. Most of the people here may never have met or spoken to your father, but they are shocked by his departure. Your and your family have my condolences. From such a distance sending flowers may not be appropiate, perhaps there was a charity your father believed in that members might be able to make a donation to in his name.

Respectfully, could one of the Dutch members translate that for me. Many thanks.

[GOZO]

Sad to hear when these things happens och mina kondelanser till familjen.
(Didn't know how to say it good in English so I said it in Swedish).

Hej.:)

Precis som du skrev; (=Just as you wrote)

..........condolences to the family.

I concur with my fellow Swede.

This is just terrible......

/Per

[robbierob2005]

Lydia,

I am sure you understand what Pioneer very kindly said here, since you write in English yourself, but anyway just in case:

Vrij vertaald:
Pioneer is net als de anderen geschokt door wat gebeurd is met je vader, hij condoleert jou en alle familie van Bram en zegt dat bloemen sturen misschien niet helemaal gepast is, met name vanwege de afstand. Hij zou toch graag iets te willen doen en vraagt of jouw vader misschien betrokken was bij een of ander goed doel (sorry als dit dubbelzinnig klinkt trouwens). Het lijkt Pioneer een goed idee dat de subsim.com leden ter ere van hem wat geld inzamelen en aan dat doel overmaken (o.v.v. Ter nagedachtenis van Bram Zeegers, neem ik dan aan)

Zou je hierover eens willen nadenken, bespreken met je familie en hier willen reageren alsjeblieft ?

Heel veel sterkte gewenst. Maak iets moois van je leven. You're worth it ;)

En dat lijkt me een goed idee :up:
And that sounds a good idea to me :up:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Sad to hear when these things happens och mina kondelanser till familjen.
(Didn't know how to say it good in English so I said it in Swedish).

Thank you :cry:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Question for his daughter...if I may.

Lydia. Most of the people here may never have met or spoken to your father, but they are shocked by his departure. Your and your family have my condolences. From such a distance sending flowers may not be appropiate, perhaps there was a charity your father believed in that members might be able to make a donation to in his name.

Respectfully, could one of the Dutch members translate that for me. Many thanks.

Thank you,

That is a very good idea if people are willing to do that..

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Lydia,

I am sure you understand what Pioneer very kindly said here, since you write in English yourself, but anyway just in case:

Vrij vertaald:
Pioneer is net als de anderen geschokt door wat gebeurd is met je vader, hij condoleert jou en alle familie van Bram en zegt dat bloemen sturen misschien niet helemaal gepast is, met name vanwege de afstand. Hij zou toch graag iets te willen doen en vraagt of jouw vader misschien betrokken was bij een of ander goed doel (sorry als dit dubbelzinnig klinkt trouwens). Het lijkt Pioneer een goed idee dat de subsim.com leden ter ere van hem wat geld inzamelen en aan dat doel overmaken (o.v.v. Ter nagedachtenis van Bram Zeegers, neem ik dan aan)

Zou je hierover eens willen nadenken, bespreken met je familie en hier willen reageren alsjeblieft ?

Heel veel sterkte gewenst. Maak iets moois van je leven. You're worth it ;)

Question for his daughter...if I may.

Lydia. Most of the people here may never have met or spoken to your father, but they are shocked by his departure. Your and your family have my condolences. From such a distance sending flowers may not be appropiate, perhaps there was a charity your father believed in that members might be able to make a donation to in his name.

Respectfully, could one of the Dutch members translate that for me. Many thanks.

Dankjewel, ja ik heb het gelezen en vind het een heel mooi gebaar.. en denk dat mijn vader dat ook erg leuk zou hebben gevonden ..

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Sad to hear when these things happens och mina kondelanser till familjen.
(Didn't know how to say it good in English so I said it in Swedish).

Hej.:)

Precis som du skrev; (=Just as you wrote)

..........condolences to the family.

I concur with my fellow Swede.

This is just terrible......

/Per

Thank you.. :cry:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Lydia,

I am sure you understand what Pioneer very kindly said here, since you write in English yourself, but anyway just in case:

Vrij vertaald:
Pioneer is net als de anderen geschokt door wat gebeurd is met je vader, hij condoleert jou en alle familie van Bram en zegt dat bloemen sturen misschien niet helemaal gepast is, met name vanwege de afstand. Hij zou toch graag iets te willen doen en vraagt of jouw vader misschien betrokken was bij een of ander goed doel (sorry als dit dubbelzinnig klinkt trouwens). Het lijkt Pioneer een goed idee dat de subsim.com leden ter ere van hem wat geld inzamelen en aan dat doel overmaken (o.v.v. Ter nagedachtenis van Bram Zeegers, neem ik dan aan)

Zou je hierover eens willen nadenken, bespreken met je familie en hier willen reageren alsjeblieft ?

Heel veel sterkte gewenst. Maak iets moois van je leven. You're worth it ;)

En dat lijkt me een goed idee :up:
And that sounds a good idea to me :up:

Als iedereen er zo positief over is zou ik dat zeker graag willen doen voor mijn vader

[Dan D]

Farewell,Abraham. My condolences to his family and close friends.

[Gizzmoe]

I come back from shore leave and then I see this... I´m speechless! :cry: Lydia, my condolences to you and your family!!! Farewell, Abe! :(

[mapuc]

I liked Holland so much, that I'm going to visit it again and those I met at the meeting in -05 Bram made such a impression on me, so I hoped that I could meet him again. That's late now:down:

Markus

[cowman1009]

I haven't been on the forums for a bit....and to come back to this is simply shocking. He will indeed be missed.

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

I come back from shore leave and then I see this... I´m speechless! :cry: Lydia, my condolences to you and your family!!! Farewell, Abe! :(

Thank you very much.. :cry:

[Kapitan]

Abraham was a good bloke a good member and well respected person on this here forum, i learnt alot from him and he taught me alot, including how to spell and punctuation in my own language.

He will be sadly missed as no one else ever pulled me up on spelling punctuation and grammer. :(

My condolencies lydia.

[Hans Schultz]

Abraham,
May your soul rest in peace. I keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

Psalm 23:4

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Abraham was a good bloke a good member and well respected person on this here forum, i learnt alot from him and he taught me alot, including how to spell and punctuation in my own language.

He will be sadly missed as no one else ever pulled me up on spelling punctuation and grammer. :(

My condolencies lydia.

My father was a great man.. I'm so proud of him..

Thank you..:cry:

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Question for his daughter...if I may.

Lydia. Most of the people here may never have met or spoken to your father, but they are shocked by his departure. Your and your family have my condolences. From such a distance sending flowers may not be appropiate, perhaps there was a charity your father believed in that members might be able to make a donation to in his name.

Respectfully, could one of the Dutch members translate that for me. Many thanks.





Hello to all subsimmers who knew my father Bram Zeegers,

I have kindly been asked here to suggest a charity/not for profit cause my father personally felt strongly about.

I have thought it over and although various charities come to mind, I feel my father would have considered it a great honor if the subsimming community here would organize a little fundraiser and make the result a special donation in his memory to Neal Stevens to invest in Subsim.com, a great place where my father got such a big kick out and met so many friendly people in the last stages of his earthly life.
I do not know how such a thing should be organized, but I am sure someone can take it from here.

So, on behalf of my father, whose spirit undoubtedly will continue to frequent subsim.com, I say: Thank you so much. My family and I are deeply moved by your kindness towards my father and me. God bless.

:cry:

[Onkel Neal]

Lydia,

Yeah, that's what your father would have said, all right. We've talked about wreaths and donations on his behalf to the Red Cross. But if we make a donation, it will have to be to the family of Bram Zeegers.

So, if anyone wants to make a donation, click here (http://www.subsim.com/Abraham_memorial.htm). There is also a place for a personal comment; I will post all donations with names and comments on the webpage. If you do NOT want your real name used, simply e-mail me at subsim@subsim.com with your Paypal donation info and the nickname you want listed. I will keep your name confidential.

I will send the donations to Lydia and her family. They can decide how to honor Bram's memory best.

thanks
Neal

[waste gate]

I don't mean to seem cold hearted but I have a question.

Miss LydiaTamarZeegers stated:
I have kindly been asked here to suggest a charity/not for profit cause my father personally felt strongly about.


I feel my father would have considered it a great honor if the subsimming community here would organize a little fundraiser and make the result a special donation in his memory to Neal Stevens to invest in Subsim.com

No doubt!

However, I don't think subsim falls under the status as tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.


A charity falling under 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, to which I can contribute in the name of Abraham Zeegers would be greatly appreciated.

[sunvalleyslim]

R.I.P. Kaleun...............May you fly with Angels............

[Stealth Hunter]

Tragedy, indeed.

Perhaps the front page of SubSim should contain a "wall" of users who've passed on?

[tcollins646]

Old Submariners never die - they just get new sailing orders....

Abraham is now on that patrol....godspeed....good hunting....

We will all someday join him in that last everlasting patrol.....

[Polak]

Spoczywaj W Pokoju (RIP)

I, as many other members here also corresponded with Abraham by PM and email, I would call him my friend any day, unfortunately I never had the chance to meet the man in person, a big loss for me.

My condolencies to you Lydia.

/Polak

[LydiaTamarZeegers]

Spoczywaj W Pokoju (RIP)

I, as many other members here also corresponded with Abraham by PM and email, I would call him my friend any day, unfortunately I never had the chance to meet the man in person, a big loss for me.

My condolencies to you Lydia.

/Polak

Thank you very much..

My father would appreciate that.

[Payoff]

A terrible shame. Abraham was one of a kind. He will truly be missed.

Payoff

[Rockstar]

I only knew of Abraham by what he posted here. He once said his user name had much to do with his beliefs and upbringing. I'm sure I'll get to meet him one day in glory.

He hath showed thee , O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Micah 6:8

[elanaiba]

Oh my god?!! When did this happen?! Abraham ?!!??!

:( :( :( :( :(

[Reaves]

Though these shores you may never return,
It is the waves who'll have to mourn,
for your sails would reach up high,
to wash a tear dropped from the sky.

In our hearts we will remember,
and sing the songs to make things better,
so sail along and raise your head,
let the wind dry, those tears you've shed.


R.I.P

[Stealth Hunter]

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/beautifuljustice777/s_91c7681c1b223b5a987aca586d2482a6.jpg

[WutWuzDat]

Such sad news... may he RIP

[JCWolf]

The beauty of life sounds like a stupidety
when we face the crude reallity of Death !

For more words of conforte and condolence that
we say more stupid it looks the loss of someone
dear to us !

I lost some brothers recently and I know the feeling,
The energy fails and sudently we face a empty
part of life that just means how big is our sorrow and
how painefull is this moment !

Mi thougths go allways for what people are in
life and for the memories that we will share
from now on of what and who was


Abraham !

[Rotary Crewman]

Shocking news, someone so brave to stand up against criminals to end this way.:nope:

[Stealth Hunter]

Here's to Abraham.

[Catfish]

It seems Mr. Holleeder, the man who most probably was responsible for murdering the one we all knew, has been set free, and they even have made a film about him :nope:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Holleeder
http://www.ibtimes.com/willem-holleeder-dutch-godfather-back-streets-401888
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16758782
:nope:

[les green01]

In May 2013 Holleeder was arrested in a large operation involving 450 police and army personnel. He is suspected of extortion.so sounds like he going go back in