Shot down fighter with Ju-88 [CFS3]

[Safe-Keeper]

I just reinstalled CFS3, and was playing the Destroying Destroyers mission in which a flight of Ju-88 attacks a convoy. In the middle of the mission, we were attacked by a flight of fighters. One of them, a P-47, happened to find himself in front of my plane, chasing one of my wingmen, and just for the heck of it I fired a shell at him - and blew his plane to bits. Is it normal in this game to shoot down fighters with Ju-88 bombers, or did I just get really, really lucky? I saw a spitfire tumble into the sea, too, so perhaps the other bombers, too, did some anti-fighter fighting?

By the way, I really like the Ju-88. She's damned agile for a bomber and is really almost more of a very heavy fighter-bomber than a level bomber, especially with that forward-firing cannon. She reminds me of the Skipray Blastboat from the Star Wars universe.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r292/safe-keeper/Hah.jpg

[Chock]

The Ju-88 was used in a number of roles throughout WW2 because of its versatility and many people regard it as one of the first ever multi-role aircraft.

There were indeed heavy fighter variants of the Ju-88, as well as nightfighters, antishipping variants, recon versions etc etc. And of course it would have been even faster if the Germans hadn't insisted on stressing it so that it could be used as a dive-bomber too (which they were a bit obsessed with).

Statistically, it was one of the most 'survivable' bombers used in the Battle of Britain. Because of its speed, it could invariably outrun British fighters if it had enough height to dive away and run for it. And in common with the Messerschmitt bf110, the Hurricane could barely catch it in level flight,

The only real disadvantage with it was that, like a lot of German bombers, it was designed with crew psychology in mind, in that the crew were grouped close together for morale purposes. This made it vulnerable if attacked from the front (always a good tactic with pretty much any bomber), where the armor was not great and there was a good chance that at least one of the crew would be hit, which, being in close proximity to the other crew members, then had the reverse effect on their morale from the one that the design was intended to exploit.

Incidentally, even though it was a German aircraft, the Ju-88 was mainly designed by an American-led team.

Definitely one of the best aircraft of WW2.

:D Chock

[AntEater]

American led team?
No sir, not that I am aware of.
I even knew one of the designers (Grandfather of a classmate) and he was definitely not american. He worked for the soviets after WW2.
Surely the plane used many american patents like the landing gear, which was strongly influenced by Curtiss.

Regarding the Ju 88 as a fighter, a similar situation did happen over Malta in late 1941, when a Ju 88C nightfighter shot down a Hurricane in daytime, but that was an accident. The Hurricane had made a firing pass and ended up in front of the Ju 88s nose guns.
The 88 however was used as a fighter where no single engined fighters were in sight: at night and over water.
First Ju 88 fighter combat was actually over Norway, when preproduction Ju 88Cs were used with Zerstörerkette KG 30.
I think the ju 88 nightfighter is well known, and NJG2 flew very successful intruder missions over Britain until transfered to the med.
There, the fighter Ju 88s were mostly not used for night fighting, but rather for over water missions to protect convoys and transport aircraft.
Later in 1942, a special long range fighter unit, V./KG 40 was formed to protect U-Boats in the Biscay from british ASW planes.
The Ju 88 was a stable long range aircraft and good for shooting down larger planes, but was at a disadvantage against the later versions of the Beaufighter and had no chance against the Mosquito.
On the east front, fighter Ju 88s were mostly used as strafers and train busters, often individually modified like the strafer B-25s in the pacific.


PS. CFS3 sucks
no matter what mods you install, the basic programm is so bad not even the most talented modders can save it.
Il-2 is much better, even if it only has the bomber version of the Ju 88

[Safe-Keeper]

PS. CFS3 sucksI'm not too impressed with it either, but I just had to install it again and I'm actually having some fun with it, despite its drawbacks.

I tried the IL2 demo, but I don't know if it's for me either.

[Chock]

American led team?
No sir, not that I am aware of.

Erm, yes sir, read this:

http://uboat.net/technical/ju88.htm

:D Chock

[STEED]

Shot down fighter with Ju-88 [CFS3]

Well you were in the right postion at the right time, well done.:up:

[AntEater]

"Two american engineers" aint exactly "the whole team".
Its true that Junkers needed help moving from corrugated metal skin to stressed skin all metal aircraft and used american help for it.
Others did that as well, Heinkel cooperated with Lockheed, for example.
Problem is, Junkers made that step not with the Ju 88, but years before with the Ju 86 airliner/bomber. So if americans worked with Junkers, they were hired years before the Ju 88 was even concieved, problably by Hugo Junkers himself.
Btw, Junkers was an interesting firm as Hugo Junkers was some kind of a closet socialist. In the 20s he actually worked together with the unions and build a lot of social projects for his workers. That was why he was essentially declared persona non grata under Hitler, while his firm continued.
However, even without Hugo, Junkers was a safe haven for communists and social democrats ("Indespensable skilled workers"), so most of the Stukas and Ju 88s were actually put together by people who were opposed to Hitler.
Btw, the Junkers factory complex in Dessau itself is actually quite well preserved and can be visited, even though there are only a few actual Junkers aircraft (one Ju 52 and some smaller planes) on show there.

[Chock]

"Two american engineers" aint exactly "the whole team".

they were hired years before the Ju 88 was even concieved

The second quote is completely innacurate. And with regard to the first quote, I didn't say 'the whole team', I said it was 'American led', which it most certainly was. Specifically these Americans were: stressed-skin and structural design consultant W.H. Evans, and the Fairchild Company's Alfred Gassner. Both men were hired specifically for their technical expertise to work on the prototype Junkers 88, the requirement for which, wasn't even issued from the German Air Ministry until 1935. They were absolutely not hired 'years before the Ju88 was conceived'.

Construction of the the Junkers 88 prototype started in May 1936, this being the Ju88V1, (civilian registration D-AQEN) which first flew on the 21st December of that year. Junkers approached the two Americans after the prototype Ju86 had flown it is true, but they did so because the Zindel-led team, which designed the Ju86 had made an appallingly bad job of the Ju86 and it was not suitable as a military aircraft. Zindel's team lacked the expertise required to produce a suitable prototype for the 1935 medium bomber requirement from Rechlin, as evidenced by the fact that the prototype Ju86 bomber variant was still being tested at the end of 1935, and the subsequent production variant, which was in fact produced after the Ju88 prototype, was so poor it was actually retired from front-line service just three years later, which means it had an operational career of about 2 years at best.

The Ju86 wasn't anywhere near as advanced, or as structurally strong as the Ju88 (which had a requirement to be a dive bomber as well as a level medium bomber). It proved vulnerable even to biplane fighters in Spain. And even the later D and E variants were retired after the Polish campaign, which was long before they ever came up against the Spitfires and Hurricanes which the Ju88 could often evade.

Later in the war, based on the knowledge and experience Junkers had gained with the Ju88, a heavily redesigned Ju-86P model became a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft, where it was relatively safe from fighters, until high altitude Allied aircraft (such as the pressurised variant of the Spitfire) were developed, which could attack it.

:D Chock

[AntEater]

Well, you definitely know more about the topic than I do, thanks for the information...

Re the Ju 86, its weakest point were actually the diesel engines. It had a peacetime loss rate higher than many wartime loss rates!
On the other hand, it was said to be a very easy plane to crash land...