Back to flightsims...

[JScones]

To quench my thirst for aircraft, I've decided that it's time to go back to Flightsimming.

I'm wondering that if I post my requirements here, perhaps you more learned flyers could point me in the right direction of the most compatible flightsim? Or at the least give me an indication of what "is out there" that's worthy of consideration.

Basically, I want a WWII flightsim that provides a dynamic campaign (by that I don't mean one where my individual actions affect the outcome of the total war, I simply mean one that is not a series of the same linked scripted missions where one can't move to the next mission unless he's finished the current one to the satisfaction of the game. Anyone that's played Panzer Elite will know what I mean ;)). If one doesn't exist, well, I suppose whatever's closest will do.

Factual campaigns too. No "what if" or other fantasy rubbish (although I'm not too worried if the missions are not fully reflective of history).

A good single player mode is important - I don't play on-line (anti-social that I am).

Modability/flexibility would be great too.

Of course playability is paramount. ;)

I'd also like a good 1950-1970 era flight sim (same criteria). I was looking at Wings Over Vietnam but that didn't seem to get good reviews. :hmm:

Computer specs no problem plus I run XP.

Any advice?

[HunterICX]

IL2 1946 is a pearl to have,
the only thing about it is the Campaign is dull,
its a real bugger . but the Flight model, graphics and realism is really good.
also there is a big collection of playable planes you can use
their next project is Storm of War: Battle of Brittian , hopefully they have changed they way they do their campaign is IL2

the Single player missions (not the campaign)
are fun to do like intercepting a V1 rocket by knocking it with your wings
or attack pearl harbour with the IJN Zero. and a bunch more.

IL2 is Hard coded, so there is nothing to mod.

also you can create your own mission with the Full mission editor which is fun to do, especially when you use them online with online friends.

Dowly, Danlisa, Kratos, Jimbuna and Me, are regular online flyers where I host my own private servers so we can just blaze eachother out of the sky.
so if you get IL2 1946 and want to try it out .the door is always open m8.


now another game

CFS3.

the Campaign is really fun, its quiete similar to SH3
you advance in time , and when it stops you can select one of the missions that are avaible to do. (bombing ships, attack factory or destroy the bridges etc etc)
you also see the forces of the Allied and Axis , and the frontlines changes over time.
while flying a Campaign mission there is a change that Enemy forces intercept you and go in for the attack.
and another thing..the campaign is Dead is dead so be carefull.
your pilot get experience points so you can upgrade its G-force resistance and sight.
also CFS3 has a released SDK by microsoft so you can mod it to taste if you feel like.
a good example is the supermod OFF (over flanders field) a WW1 bi-plane mod which is really worth a try.

(if IL2 used the Campaign of CFS3 the game would be even better)

hope it helps :up:

ps:

Storm of War preview WIP: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OWQ55n8ig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OWQ55n8ig))

homepage of CFS3 (http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs3/default.aspx (http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs3/default.aspx))

IL2 Homepage (http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php (http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php))

[Chock]

There's IL2, Pacific Fighters, CFS3, and BOB2 (plus a few others) all of which are getting a bit long in the tooth, and none of them are perfect, the IL2 and Pacific Fighters games have great flight models but the enemy AI is questionable in single player and the interface and campaign(s) are somewhat lacklustre too, if I had to choose, I'd say Pacific Fighters had a slightly better single-player campaign.

CFS3 got slammed by a lot of people, but I personally quite like it, the flight model is pretty good (not quite up with IL2, but close enough to be okay). CFS3 is WAAAAY more 'moddable' than IL2 (which apart from reskins is pretty much locked as far as modding is concerned), with CFS3, there are lots of free add-on mods too, notably the WW1 revamp, Over Flanders Fields, which is excellent and well worth a look, even if WW1 isn't particularly your bag, as it's kind of like the GWX of flight sims. On the whole, I think it's a shame that CFS3 didn't win as many fans as it could have, as it was a brave attempt to 'push the envelope' of flight sims, adding the human element and some nice gameplay features, all of which had the potential to give the sim more dimension. But I guess that's wasn't everyone's cup of tea, funny bunch flight simmers.

Battle of Britain 2 is of course available in revamped form, having had a fairly extensive overhaul, but it still features a clunky interface and an uninviting mode of play, although you can play it as a campaign controller, however, since the outcome is fairly obviously going to be a win for Britain, what the point of that is, is beyond me. It does have some good features, the cockpits are really well done and the 'clickable' switches are fun, if not always practical, the sound too is very good, with the Spitfire actually really sounding like one on the fly-by view. But the flight model is almost unbearably over-sensitive, and fails to take into account the fact that it is supposed to be 'simulating' flight as opposed to 'emulating' it. The problem being that the behaviour is indeed very much like a real aeroplane, but not easy to use since we are not actually sat in a real aeroplane with all the sensory feedback and peripheral vision etc which makes it possible to fly a real aeroplane. Expect to crash your plane a lot with this sim, even on what appears to be a perfect three-point landing.

Some other outside choices (if you can find copies), which although quite old, offer some fun are: European Air War, Luftwaffe Commander, B-17 and Fighter Squadron: Screaming Demons Over Europe.
European Air War has some great fighter squadron simulation and an interesting campaign, although the flight model is not spectacular. Luftwaffe Commander is long in the tooth but has a fun campaign starting in the Spanish Civil War. B-17 has the opportunity to fly as an escort fighter and is therefore quite good fun and varied (besides being a good game/sim there are still plenty of mods about for it too). Similarly, Fighter Squadron has some good mods about for it if you are prepared to search the net and has some impressive damage modelling and lots of great aeroplanes including the Lancaster and B-17 as well as lots of fighters and fighter/bombers.

All of these however have somewhat dated graphics, apart from B-17's which still stand up fairly well, even if they are a bit spartan by today's standards. However, they do all at least have the virtue that you could probably run them at really high detail settings with no problem whatsoever, although some might not like XP/Vista.

For a modern sim of 50s to 70s jets, the obvious choice would seem to be Wings Over Europe, but it is a 'survey sim rather than a study sim' in that although there are many aeroplanes available to fly, they are not simulated with any obsessive accuracy. Radar and missiles are all there, but they are somewhat generic, as are the flight models, which although adequate, are hardly breathtakingly realistic. Nevertheless, it's a fun game with interesting campaigns and some challenging enemy AI and there is a healthy modding community for WOE, with many free extra aeroplanes available on the net, including stuff like the BAC lightning and obscure models from the F-86 Series. It is also well serviced by the developer, who is easily contactable and willing to talk to you on forums, which makes a refreshing change these days! Another plus is that WOE is fairly friendly on lesser computer systems, which makes it very fluid even with the graphics turned up, although don't expect the ground to wow you with its realism, as the view is nothing spectacular, however, the clouds are well done.

So there's a few ideas.

:D Chock

[Dowly]

IL2 1946 is a pearl to have,
the only thing about it is the Campaign is dull,
its a real bugger . but the Flight model, graphics and realism is really good.
also there is a big collection of playable planes you can use
their next project is Storm of War: Battle of Brittian , hopefully they have changed they way they do their campaign is IL2


You can change the campaing to a dynamic one with the Il2DCG. You can adjust the number of planes in air atm, how much there's ground units, number of flights, size of flights, distance to target etc. etc.

I kinda like the missions that the IL2DCG puts to the campaign, for example Battle of Britain as British is just patrolling around the "hotspots", but sometimes when the enemy attacks other "hotspot" than the one you are assigned to patrol, you wont even see the enemy. More realistic that way me thinks.

Also, the campaign moves on dynamically, your actions too can have effect to it. For example, if you decide, for some reason unknown to mankind, down every single bomber in the flight you are supposed to escort and the enemy planes their job well, you most likely will lose some ground on the map.

Also, the supplylines are modelled in it too and of course, supply drops. ;) If your airfield gets bombed, you might see a supply plane come in on the next mission to brinf items for the repairs.

Really enchanges the gameplay. Normal IL2 is just a string of pre-written missions, but IL2DCG generates the missions, no pre-made missions used. :up:


Read more:
www.lowengrin.com

[Happy Times]

Wow, i didnt know about this.:up: Ill have to order controls soon..
Any recomendations in the 100-150e range?

[Dowly]

Wow, i didnt know about this.:up: Ill have to order controls soon..
Any recomendations in the 100-150e range?

Hah! You silly finnish bast.... oh wait... :doh:

Anyways, the IL2DCG have been out for years, I used back when IL2 Forgotten Battles was released. :up:

[PeriscopeDepth]

To quench my thirst for aircraft, I've decided that it's time to go back to Flightsimming.

I'm wondering that if I post my requirements here, perhaps you more learned flyers could point me in the right direction of the most compatible flightsim? Or at the least give me an indication of what "is out there" that's worthy of consideration.

Basically, I want a WWII flightsim that provides a dynamic campaign (by that I don't mean one where my individual actions affect the outcome of the total war, I simply mean one that is not a series of the same linked scripted missions where one can't move to the next mission unless he's finished the current one to the satisfaction of the game. Anyone that's played Panzer Elite will know what I mean ;)). If one doesn't exist, well, I suppose whatever's closest will do.

Factual campaigns too. No "what if" or other fantasy rubbish (although I'm not too worried if the missions are not fully reflective of history).

A good single player mode is important - I don't play on-line (anti-social that I am).

Modability/flexibility would be great too.

Of course playability is paramount. ;)

I'd also like a good 1950-1970 era flight sim (same criteria). I was looking at Wings Over Vietnam but that didn't seem to get good reviews. :hmm:

Computer specs no problem plus I run XP.

Any advice?

BoB2 sounds like it would fit you much better than IL-2. I have tried and tried to get into IL-2 but it is rubbish in single player when compared to BoB2. You can DL it from the publisher for $20.

www.shockwaveproductions.com

To give you an idea of BoB's gameplay:
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2224005&page=1#Post2224005
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2223944&page=1#Post2223944
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2221882&page=1#Post2221882

PD

[danlisa]

WOW, I just tried IL2DCG late last night and I've been missing out. After I figured out how to replace DGEN.:88)

I just started a Battle of Britain DCG generated campaign and after setting the options in DCG it blew me away. Literally :dead:.

IIRC us brits had 3 squadrons, totalling 20ish planes and the Germans had 15+Bombers and 10+Fighters. It was an awesome fight, I shot down 2 bombers & 1 fighter then had to bail. However I 'hitched a lift' back to home base.:doh:

I recommend this little app to anyone bored of the campaign in IL2.:up:

[HunterICX]

Sounds need Danlisa,
can you share the link mate where I can find it :up:

[danlisa]

Sounds need Danlisa,
can you share the link mate where I can find it :up:
A bit tricky to get working but we'll sort it out if needed.:up:
http://www.lowengrin.com/download.php

On your system, I would suggest not selecting the option where you can have 50+ planes at one time.;)

Took me awhile and a little fiddleing to get it right but once it's set up it will auto generate realistic campaign missions for you.:up:

[JScones]

Thanks guys.

CFS3 sounds interesting. I must admit that I always thought going by the reviews that it was crap.

The bonus of OFF appeals too. I do like WWI-era flying (still have Flying Corps Gold hanging around somewhere).

Some q's about CFS3. I assume that there are many add-ons that can be bought, and many places to d/l free stuff? Do any good add-ons or mod sites come to mind? Can I get something that essentially extends CFS3 from 1943-1945 to 1939-1945 (ie BoP, BoF, BoB)? And can I get something that adds other countries (like Australia) or theatres (like the SE Asia)?

And lastly, is there an SH3Cmdr equivalent for CFS3?

I used to play, and quite enjoy, the original CFS and there were some great mod sites.

IL2-1946 with this DCG thingy sounds interesting too, albeit very complicated.

[HunterICX]

http://www.combatfs.com/index.php?loc=pages&page=about (http://www.combatfs.com/index.php?loc=pages&page=about)

here's a good CFS website.:up:
with a big collection of downloads, missions , campaigns, aircraft , scenery etc etc
hopefully you will find what you need

[danlisa]

And lastly, is there an SH3Cmdr equivalent for CFS3?

IL2-1946 with this DCG thingy sounds interesting too, albeit very complicated.
There is a SH3Cmdr equivalent for IL2 but I can't remember it's name.:damn::damn:
From what I do remember it was very good, with many extra settings to that of the default game as well as things like Pilot back stories and log keeping. To name a few.

I'm sure someone will remember what it's called.

As for DCG, it's only tricky setting up. I don't mean difficult but it took me a few tries to get it enabled. Once it is set up, it runs without user input, each time your start a new campaign patrol.

It's not as if you need to 'rollback' ;) at any time either as the DCG campaigns are totally separate to those in the default game & they are named as such. As well a configuring your campaign type it can also control things like ground units, map indicators and level of realism.

I think, after just one patrol, that it's well worth the small amount of trouble setting up.:yep:

[Dowly]

Sounds need Danlisa,
can you share the link mate where I can find it :up:

Oh ffs! You guys have known of this proggy for ages! We even flew my DCG generated campaign few times! :-?

[joea]

Yes I don't know why more people tray DCG for Il-2 it's really superb....plus I admit to liking well made static campaigns, some of those which come with Il-2 46 (the Russian ones) are very well scripted even if you can play them only once!! Plus there are some very nice community-made ones out there, a whole lot more than one could play if one has a life as well. Make sure you tunr "no instant success" OFF though so you can proceed even if you don't complete the mission, many noobs get confused by that. ;)

From what I've seen of CFS3 the campaign is cr## as you can win the war on your own.

[danlisa]

There is a SH3Cmdr equivalent for IL2 but I can't remember it's name.:damn::damn:
From what I do remember it was very good, with many extra settings to that of the default game as well as things like Pilot back stories and log keeping. To name a few.

I'm sure someone will remember what it's called.

YES! I remembered. It's called IL2 Stab and although it's billed for FB/AEP it will work with 1946.

Read about it here - http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1444

[Happy Times]

I just ordered 1946. I think the price wasnt bad, 9.90e+ 2,50e mail

http://www.gamelife.fi/?viewproduct=8141&p=3&s&delfromcart=8141&soft&delfromcart=8141&soft

[JScones]

Just d/l OFF. Does anyone have the MD5 sums? I see the same q was posted over in the OFF forum in March but has never been answered.

[Pinetree]

I highly recommend BoB2, the dynamic campaign is superb,you can even set it up so the AI does all the stategy and you just fly.The AI is astonishing and the immersion complete.When there's hundreds of planes in the air you get the feeling you've stepped back in time.

[Rose]

Just d/l OFF. Does anyone have the MD5 sums? I see the same q was posted over in the OFF forum in March but has never been answered.

What is an MD5 sum, if you don't mind me asking? I have OFF as well, so I wonder if perhaps I've missed something.

[CCIP]

I highly recommend BoB2, the dynamic campaign is superb,you can even set it up so the AI does all the stategy and you just fly.The AI is astonishing and the immersion complete.When there's hundreds of planes in the air you get the feeling you've stepped back in time.

There was a very optimistic "second look" article just posted on SimHQ, talking about the improvement to BoB2 with the recent patches, that got me rather interested: http://simhq.com/_air10/air_293a.html

At $20, I think I might just take the plunge with this one :hmm:

[JScones]

There was a very optimistic "second look" article just posted on SimHQ, talking about the improvement to BoB2 with the recent patches, that got me rather interested: http://simhq.com/_air10/air_293a.html

At $20, I think I might just take the plunge with this one :hmm:
I think you can get it even cheaper - it's less than A$10 over here. Had it in my hands today, but didn't buy it. Methinks I should have now.

Here's something I found when searching for CFS3... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COMBAT-FLIGHT-COLLECTION-FIRST-EAGLES-3-SIMS-NEW_W0QQitemZ270126770220QQihZ017QQcategoryZ11051Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Haven't seen it anywhere else, but haven't looked. Good price though if it is around.

On a different note I purchased CFS3 today. Should get it in a few days. Have already d/l OFF, KTCS and Wulfmann's BoB (installing looks like a pig though). Looking forward to firing it up. :)

EDIT: Oh wow, just read the review and JSGME gets a mention. Cool.

[Dowly]

Wow, after reading that little review of BoB II and heard the awesome engine sounds, I have to get myself a copy of it! FAST! :huh:

[PeriscopeDepth]

BoB2 is amazing. I have to repurchase, as my CD got scratched to the point of no return. Even with DCG, IL-2's campaign doesn't even come close to BoB. As well as the AI. Thinking I'll get the download tomorrow when my girlfriend's not watching. :arrgh!:

PD

[JScones]

Yeah, I've decided to get BoB2 and scrap Wulfmann's BoB CFS3 add-on.

[Pinetree]

Yeah, I've decided to get BoB2 and scrap Wulfmann's BoB CFS3 add-on.

I picked the BestBuy edition up for NZ$10.Best 10 bucks I've ever spent on a game.With the extra cash saved I got TrackIR4, this sim was made for it :).Hope to see you guys over at the shockwave forums.It's a good bunch over there.

[HunterICX]

off all the thing I heard about BOB2
I think I will get it as well.
going to look in the local shops today

[JScones]

Well, I've spent half of today playing BoB2, CFS3, CFS3/OFF and CFS3/Korea (and perhaps the other half "tweaking" the settings to be just right, LOL!).

One word: awesome.
Can't wait for CFS3/MAW to come in a day or two. :rock:

[SeaVee]

.....(and perhaps the other half "tweaking" the settings to be just right, LOL!).
...

Before time spent tweaking Bob2, you may want to take a look at this thread, specifically my third post down the page:
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2231243

[PeriscopeDepth]

How's CFS 3 Korea JScones?

PD

[JScones]

.....(and perhaps the other half "tweaking" the settings to be just right, LOL!).
...

Before time spent tweaking Bob2, you may want to take a look at this thread, specifically my third post down the page:
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2231243
Hehe, first thing I did was search the shockwave forum and found your very helpful Are you getting the MOST out of BoB2? (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7344) thread! :up:

[JScones]

How's CFS 3 Korea JScones?

PD
I quite like it. Even moreso now I've added Johno_UK's recently released Meteor F8 (I play as the Aussies). :cool:

Would be nice if the ETO could be fully removed (like it was with OFF), but it's not a major problem.

[heartc]

Uhm, JScones, I think you were ill-advised, dude. No offense to anyone here, but you basicly recommended him CFS3 in favor of the IL-2 series? Nuts. I'm a flightsim nerd at heart. While I've never been one of those Oleg worshippers, and I too own CFS3, but JScones, I can only recommend you that you get IL2, there is a complete edition out there which has Forgotten Battles and all the Add-Ons which have been done over the years included on 2 DVDs, one click install afaik.

If you think CFS3 is "awesome", the IL-2 series will totally blow you away. CFS3 with the community created add-ons can be an OK game, but there are multiple inherent and very bad issues with it which can't be fixed by no one cause they are hardcoded. The AI is total crap, they do not fly any proper ACM whatsoever, they only stand a chance cause they fly with zero fuel weight and can snipe you out from over 1000 yards when set on "Ace". The damage model is a joke. And you said you don't want the campaign to be fantasy, well in CFS3 it is, since the Germans never featured a Navy as presented in the campaign, and never invaded England either, and the Allies didn't land in Calais.

The campain in IL-2 would have suited you fine, it is a DYNAMIC campaign, but NON fantasy, and you DON'T need that DCG thingy for it to be so. All that DCG does is feature more planes in the air - fine if your PC can handle that - and repetive missions. At least from my experience, or I didn't set it up probably, which is chore, especially if you are new to the game. But as I said, you don't need the DCG addon. You can always come back later to it. The stock campaign in IL-2 does exactly what you were looking for: It provides you with "never the same mission twice", dynamicly generated flights in a non fantasy campaign with accurate frontlines and historic outcomes. It is not dynamic in a Falcon 4.0 sense of way, but it is NON-SCRIPTED nonetheless.
You can also make some simple adjustments in a Dgen.ini (Dgen, the stock campaign generator, not to be confused with the community DCG generator) file to increase activity in the campaign.

CFS3 now with the Add-Ons is the best it could have hoped to become (downloaded the Med Air War Add-On by now and waiting for the password), but if you want THE most comprehensive and most acclaimed (e.g. in terms of FM, DM, and Online) Flightsim, you HAVE to get the IL-2 series. All the other WWII flightsims have their merits, but if you don't get IL-2 (the latest edition), you are really missing out.

[heartc]

BTW, BoB2 is really good, too, and also WORLDS ahead of CFS3 in pretty much all regards, except modding. The only weakness when compared to IL-2 is that it is very limited in scope by comparison (just as the name suggests, only the Battle of Britain is simulated, which gives you about 2 planes on the Allied side and 3 on the Axis, and you can be tailgunner in the bombers) and might hence get old at some point. But because it is more limited it can also simulate that single theater in more detail than IL2 simulates the PTO for example. Actually, the PTO simulation is the weak part of IL-2. But the package you get with the latter is so immense that you probably won't mind it. I think you get well over 150 flyables in IL-2. Yet they are not shallowly modelled as in a survey sim, because those planes weren't all there from the beginning in 2001, but instead were slowly and carefully added in the different Add-On packages and patches over time. The Stuka for example has the automatic pull up and bomb drop at release altitude, the He111 has a historically accurate semi-automatic bombsight, the B-25 has an accurate norden bombsight, the 262 engines will catch fire if you advance the throttle to quickly, you have the different Methanol / Water / injection systems for the different aircraft, constant speed props vs variable pitch etc. etc.

[JScones]

I got IL-2 Complete Edition a while ago. Installed and played it a few times; I didn't like it. There was something that just, well, just didn't appeal to me. I think I lost interest because I couldn't tweak/mod it the way I wanted to (although flying with the RAAF during the Battle For Singapore kept my attention for a while).

The deciding factor for getting CFS3 was the WWI (First Eagles didn't look too promising), Korea (albeit incomplete, but nothing else comparable on the market) and Desert mods which all appeal to me (and which can be tweaked/modded further to my liking). When IL-2 includes these eras/theatres maybe I'll try it again. ;) But in the meantime, I've balanced the good points with the bad and the good has won out overall (fwiw I have no plans on playing stock CFS3 as the ETO doesn't really interest me).

Anyway, I suspect (hope?) that CFS3 and maybe even BoB2 will be sidelined if Storm of War: Battle of Britain and WWI: Knights of the Sky live up to expectations.

[Rubini]

Hi mates,
Hi Jaesen,

Well, well...I also come back to flight sims after SH3 and all that so long mod work on GW/GWX...lol

It's really a good surprise to find you (and all you guys ) in this same matter!
After some days on the net and looking on my old sim games I also bought CFS3 looking for its good mods. The dinamic campaing, at least good AI and easy to get in factor are the most for me. This last topic - easy to get in - is what keep me a little away from Falcon, IL2 and BOB2 until now. Perhaps some time later...Falcon 4.0 is really to much complicated for me. I haven't all the necessary free time to get in.

But before install again CFS3 I stuck in an old time (9 years now) flight sim that was the grandfather of all others dinamic campaigns and in a lot of ways yet better than all the modern ones: DID Total Air war!

It's easy to get in, fun and challenge at same time, its dinamic campaign is awesome and with the new glide wrappers (was made mainly for the old 3dfx voodoo cards) you can play it in 1600x1200 with all the settings at maximum, 6xAA, 16xAF, temporal and adaptive AA. The result is excelent.

It's old of course, the AI isn't perfect but quasi ( at least at par with the best modern sims). This game was from the time that a sim was really a very good and challenge game. Like the old Panzer Elite, my friend: it's yet the best on its type!

Here a link that have a lot of TAW goodies. I know that not every one will find it now to buy or perhaps don't want o try it...but if you have the chance...take it!

It's unique problem: it is set in a modern era, on the Read Sea scenario to be more exactly. But it is the best for a non WWII flight sim choice. Forgive me Falcon players...:D

Here a link to look in:
http://www.migman.com/ref/1990_combat/TAW/TAW.htm

Cheers,

Rubini.

[Lagger123987]

I Need A Joystick, Whre Can I Find The Cheapest Joystick To Play Il-2?

[Dowly]

I Need A Joystick, Whre Can I Find The Cheapest Joystick To Play Il-2?

If you know how to answer to a thread, I am sure you can use the internet to search for a cheapest joystick. :nope:

[HunterICX]

I Need A Joystick, Whre Can I Find The Cheapest Joystick To Play Il-2?
If you know how to answer to a thread, I am sure you can use the internet to search for a cheapest joystick. :nope:

I know how to enter and answer to a thread, but I still cant land dowly:stare:

:rotfl:


@lagger: logitech, saitek perhaps use those 2 words to search on the web.
and maybe a local hardware/Toyshop shop can help you out.